AVB

[Jurgen the German]

i've always found that argument a bit odd, you could say it about anyone, Chelsea wouldn't have as many points without Hazard, City without Aguero, Barca without Messi

on Sunday either Sunderland, Saudi Sportswashing Machine or Hull are going to get relegated, and they will be able to point to one of the two other clubs and say, if that one guy didn't get that one goal in that one game we would have stayed up and they would have gone down

Of course you can say it for any team, but the fact is we were heavily reliant on him, more so than we have been on one player this season. I would say we have relied on 3 players, Kane, Chadli and Eriksen, that's a slight improvement I would say.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I am convinced Dempsey and Sigurdsson would have stepped up in Bale's place, especially Sigurdsson. Afterall, Sigurdsson is the player with the 2nd highest assists in the league this season. I think most of the players just relied on Bale to score instead of trying themselves.

Sig plays for a new team now under a new manager. What makes you think he would have re-produced that form whilst he was at Spurs considering he failed to do so under not one but two managers?

So the players weren't trying? This is one of the worst excuses I have heard for AVB on this forum mate. It's the manager's job to make sure the players are effective, not just to rely on one player.

 

[Baleforce]

But we weren't even winning towards the end of his reign. We were getting hiding after hiding.

second season yes, we had a lot of changes and things needed to be worked on, I don't feel he was given long enough to do so

 

[Baleforce]

Of course you can say it for any team, but the fact is we were heavily reliant on him, more so than we have been on one player this season. I would say we have relied on 3 players, Kane, Chadli and Eriksen, that's a slight improvement I would say.

that can't be proven though, its hypothetical, and evidence may suggest it to be correct, but no bale would not have resulted in us playing with 10 men, we wouldn't have been passing the ball to a man that wasn't there, someone else would have been on the pitch, knowing what influence they would have had is impossible to accurately quantify

back in September you could have said, "but what if chadli and eriksen stop scoring and the performances of ade and soldado don't improve, we might have to rely on that blonde kid from the reserves to lead the line" and look what happened, someone came in and did an unexpectedly brilliant job, you can't just take bale's goals away and assume you are left with an accurate points total, football doesn't work like that

 

[Rorschach]

But we weren't even winning towards the end of his reign. We were getting hiding after hiding.

That's true but I think the team had pretty much given up on him towards the end and that coupled with the high line meant that we were there for the taking.

 

[parklane1]

second season yes, we had a lot of changes and things needed to be worked on, I don't feel he was given long enough to do so

I said that at the time and I still believe it now, nothing against Poch but AVB was making progress. The press always had it in for him because he replaced their " rent a quote " and were telling storys about him from the off, sad to say there are still fans who believe all the brick they read in the papers.

 

[billyiddo]

there was more to his departure than on the field matters, although they probably brought things to a head tbf

 

[Robspur12]

I like MoPo but this is very true. I mean all those who moan and rage about AVB (even about his first year, when we went into the last game only a point away from 4th), did you prefer this season to that one?

I've enjoyed this season in parts but in no way does it compare to our effectiveness and competitiveness that AVB oversaw that first season on 2012/13. If you say that you could see how we would go once Bale wasn't there, then surely the same can be said for now with MoPo when Kane isn't playing?

Mate Kane plays as the spearhead of our attacks. I expect him to score more goals than the rest of the team. We have 2 other players in double figures for goals this season. Bale was our attack that year creating his goals mainly by himself. It is only fair to compare Mopo this season to Avb last season as that would compare like for like playing resources in the main. Under AvB we were struggling to score goals and getting thumped by top 4 teams and West Ham. Mopo has arrested that. In addition there are a whole host of players under Mopo who have really come on Inc Kane. I cant say the same for any player under AVB Inc Bale who was already a fantastic player when AVB arrived.

 

[the dza]

I didn't particularly care for AVB once Bale went, but in hindsight, we should have given him that entire season. Easy to say now, because I wanted him fired into orbit after Liverpool at home. But with what has followed, Levy may as well have given him some more time.

However, I'm fairly happy with Poch (and I thought Sherwood did ok too) so I don't think we've suffered as a club. Player wise, we've slipped from a club fighting for top 4 to a club fighting for top 6, and both coaches after AVB have got us at that level.

 

[Robspur12]

I enjoyed that season more than this one.

I do however think we are better going forward than we were under AVB, we seem to have more ideas, still a big work in progress, but I believe we do look better attacking.

The style of play is still not great though.

I don't want this to turn into a Mopo thread but the guy inherited a team who limped into sixth place having failed to beat any of the top 4 teams and being trebled by both wham and the goons. He has turned that around and improved a lot of players too. It is far from perfect at the moment but he needs to be given some time before judging him. He did well at soton and transformed Kane into a 20million pound striker. People said AVB should have been given more time. Aside from the fact he wanted to go there is no evidence that he was pragmatic enough to change or that he was capable of building a team. That's before I even mention about the appalling scouting associated with him and the committee. some how the Avb supporters have overlooked his part in the transfer fiasco after Bales sale.

 

[Robspur12]

Btw I was no fan of Harry's but I must accept that the performance of several players really developed while he was our manager. Again I cannot say the same for AVB. What he does is have a system, he doesn't imo coach players to improve themselves but rather fits already very good players into it. He did that with Bale and that is what Chukhov was alluding to at Zenit. As I have said previously in that respect he was the wrong fit for spurs.

 

[billyiddo]

i think it's hard to judge his time tbh - in his first season i think the target/expectation from both the board and a lot of the supporters was to battle hard for 4th, which didn't give him much room to manoeuvre - the over riding target was to repeat the finish of the previous season, with a weaker squad and a radically different approach from the previous years (both on and off the field) so in that respect i think he done as well as you could expect from him, our best ever points tally and missing out on 4th by one point (?) the next season then saw our talisman sold and replaced with 7 players who had never kicked a ball in the league before, now of course he was involved in the process of buying those players but still i think a little bit of patience was required and although you can look at that half season and say it was only going one way in reality it wasn't an ideal scenario to be in and i think it's harsh to write him off because of it.

last summer there was less expectation from supporters as a whole and Levy didn't even mention 4th place/Champions League upon appointing Pochettino - hopefully this means that he has been able to lay down some foundations upon which to build, which i think is something AVB was not afforded in his time here

 

[glorygloryeze]

Mate Kane plays as the spearhead of our attacks. I expect him to score more goals than the rest of the team. We have 2 other players in double figures for goals this season. Bale was our attack that year creating his goals mainly by himself. It is only fair to compare Mopo this season to Avb last season as that would compare like for like playing resources in the main. Under AvB we were struggling to score goals and getting thumped by top 4 teams and West Ham. Mopo has arrested that. In addition there are a whole host of players under Mopo who have really come on Inc Kane. I cant say the same for any player under AVB Inc Bale who was already a fantastic player when AVB arrived.

The bolded bit shows your poor memory and how you are using the latter part of that season to smear your memory of the WHOLE SEASON.
I think you will find that Defoe also scored a decent number of goals that season, particularly the first half of the season. In fact i'm sure Defoe scored more than Bale in the first half of that season, and hence showing how wrong your statement is.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I said that at the time and I still believe it now, nothing against Poch but AVB was making progress. The press always had it in for him because he replaced their " rent a quote " and were telling storys about him from the off, sad to say there are still fans who believe all the crud they read in the papers.

By the same token, I believe you and a few others were unbelievably patient with him BECAUSE he replaced "rent a quote" who you and a lot of others disliked so it was always going to take a hell of a lot to admit that he was the wrong choice.

The press were inpatient with him because he failed at Chelsea and came across as aloof to them, nothing to do with Redknapp.

 

[Jurgen the German]

second season yes, we had a lot of changes and things needed to be worked on, I don't feel he was given long enough to do so

The performances were getting worse as the season progressed. We all accepted there would be growing pains with that group of players. AVB somehow turned us into a team that struggled to score from outfield player whilst also being weak at the back. The Liverpool game was just one hiding too many, had the result been 2 or 3 nil then I believe he would have kept his job, but the manner of the defeat was too much for Levy, it could have been 8-0 at least. The high line was still employed despite having Dawson at the back who is hardly Usain Bolt.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I don't want this to turn into a Mopo thread but the guy inherited a team who limped into sixth place having failed to beat any of the top 4 teams and being trebled by both wham and the goons. He has turned that around and improved a lot of players too. It is far from perfect at the moment but he needs to be given some time before judging him. He did well at soton and transformed Kane into a 20million pound striker. People said AVB should have been given more time. Aside from the fact he wanted to go there is no evidence that he was pragmatic enough to change or that he was capable of building a team. That's before I even mention about the appalling scouting associated with him and the committee. some how the Avb supporters have overlooked his part in the transfer fiasco after Bales sale.

True. IIRC, Paulinho and Soldado were his choices. He gets credit for Chadli, very good signing and great value for money.

 

[parklane1]

The bolded bit shows your poor memory and how you are using the latter part of that season to smear your memory of the WHOLE SEASON.
I think you will find that Defoe also scored a decent number of goals that season, particularly the first half of the season. In fact i'm sure Defoe scored more than Bale in the first half of that season, and hence showing how wrong your statement is.

Bale 26 goals, Defoe 15 goals Dempsey 12 goals

Kane 30 goals, Chadli 13 goals, Eriksen 12 goals.

So as you say it was not only Bales goals that got us a points record under AVB as much as those that what to make it appear that way.

 

[parklane1]

By the same token, I believe you and a few others were unbelievably patient with him BECAUSE he replaced "rent a quote" who you and a lot of others disliked so it was always going to take a hell of a lot to admit that he was the wrong choice.

The press were inpatient with him because he failed at Chelsea and came across as aloof to them, nothing to do with Redknapp.

Dream on.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Dream on.

Maybe in your mind there is some bigger agenda, but in reality, AVB gave them more than enough ammunition on his own.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Maybe in your mind there is some bigger agenda, but in reality, AVB gave them more than enough ammunition on his own.

Really? How so? Especially in the first season?