AVB & Spurs Tactics and Formations discussion thread

[delajazz89]

Maybe and hopefully, milo is right and if we have someone like Dembele we can unpick it but he wont unpick the lock defensively. I would seriously consider pushing him up behind the striker with Thudd and Sandro behind him. At home especially.

The problem with that is that is basically the same as playing livermore. I don't think that the loss of Modric was strictly a technical problem, but more of a tactical one. Having dem/mod next to sandro gives you more of a link between defence and attack, and gives you someone to play through. Liv isnt that bad a passer, but he shows VERY little attacking or creative intent, so we end up with a massive gap in the middle of the pitch; there are no passing options when the other team just sit in front of the wide players and Sig/VDV, who are expected to try to get into the box to score a goal....it happened at times in the Saudi Sportswashing Machine game. Dembele can hold up/carry the ball in the middle of the pitch, something livermore or even huddlestone cant really do.

 

[mudshark]

Something I think has been an irksome feature of all our games so far this season is that we've been rather poor at clearing our lines and putting a quick stop to danger situations in our box. Weakish headers, dithering, tippy-tappy attempts to play the ball out of trouble and a lack of anticipation, initiative and sufficient acceleration to cover the ground, win the second ball and get it away decisively have all been something of an issue for me. We looked a lot more effective going forward today, though, which is all to the good.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

What I was really impressed with today was that it was an intelligent performance, really intelligent. And if players have grasped it, then hopefully we should start picking up results consistently.

I said it after Norwich, it screamed of a team not being fully comfortable with what they were being asked to do, like it just needed to click for them because it was something new. I don't think it was really much to do with Livermore playing, because he played the first half against West Brom were we prised them apart at will too. It's just a case of the players being comfortable. Knowing how to put it all together in a competitive situation, getting knowing the runs to make, the positions to take up and making that pass all at once against a well drilled competitor. Nayim made the good comparison, it's like learning to drive a car. It's simple once you've been doing it for a while but when you're a learner trying to get to grips with all the individual things you have to do can be tough.

But today it looked to me like it clicked for us. And that illustration on the previous page is a great example of why. Sandro's forward run means Sig drops deep and has space, which gives Lennon the room to run and cut back for Defoe. We are fluid, moving so intelligently, moving into positions, covering for each other, it was absolutely great to see. It's letting the players play to to their strengths, but giving them the plans to let them exploit themselves more often.

And it wasn't just that Reading were bad. We made them look bad. They went to Chelsea and caused trouble, on their ground they could easily have given us a scare. But we totally took our game to them and it was great to watch.

 

[metalgear]

control of the game, and setting the pace. that's what i saw today.

dembele played a big part, in a way modric did to calm nerves and regain the initiative in the midfield and therefore retain possession, but you could see it all over the pitch - naughton, defoe, verts.

the unsung heroes being, siggy and bale, who i felt were playing very specific roles covering a lot of ground and running the other team to the ground.

but i think all this talk about pressing is secondary to the idea that it is all about control, and every player (including the soon-to-be-seen-if-true sweeper keeper) is responsible for.

its good to see the game-to-game progress, and how the team is shaping up with the new players and loss of key personnel. the spine of the team is being replaced in one season, so I'm sure its still going to be a roller coaster ride.

there's still much room for progress up front and at the back, but the future is bright as we are yet to see what the likes of Lloris, Kaboul, Dempsey and Ade can add!

 

[thfcsteff]

Please discuss the tactics seen in today's game. Was our finishing as bad and sloppy as we were in ghe final months of the last two seasons? Can the tactics/formation work away at, say, Man utd?

The finishing was sloppy, yes, but equally, there was a very crisp and precise first goal and a belter of a third, whilst the second was nicely worked. Sig's miss was awful IMHO.

The optimist in me says that yes, these tactics absolutely can work at Man Utd.

I think it's obvious that Sandro and Dembele is a great partnership in the middle, and I personally think it's important to say that Dembele is not an improvement on Jake Livermore, he's a completely different type/calibre of player. Again I would never look at Livermore to provide what Dembele does...again, we're back to asking plumbers to paint Da Vincis, or something like that!

 

[Bullet]

The most pleasing thing for me was that Defoe had/made/was given about 5 good chances. In an away game, playing alone up top. I was told he can't play that role, but it seems he can IF we keep the ball on the deck and IF the front 4 or 7 are fluid.

Note the first 2 goals and numerous other chances were from a wide player getting to the line and cutting it back low. That is what Bale should be doing on the left.

 

[F10]

For me the first true test of AVB and The Project is United in a couple of weeks.

We never ever hardly take points from them, no matter how well we play.

Will be interesting seeing how the team will react to having proper tactics to go by when faced by our biggest nemesis. I also see this as a test to AVBs motivational skills. Will he get them fired up?

 

[Grays_1890]

Good performance today, Redknapp would have seen that performance and been a very happy boss and I think thats a key point in my own accessment. I was worried about the team not being able to produce those kind of passing/possesion performances and they did....

 

[tynesidespur]

Lennon's run was also an example of André Villas-Boas's influence. Under Harry Redknapp the winger received the ball to feet, then attempted to dribble past the full-back – but he is now expected to make intelligent, purposeful off-the-ball runs to collect passes played in behind the defence.
www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/sep/16/tottenham-sandro-flexibility-reading

Not true. Lennon was making runs and receiving passes like that from Corluka, Jenas, Carrick and Keane since 2005.

 

[Lemonade Money]

For me the first true test of AVB and The Project is United in a couple of weeks.

We never ever hardly take points from them, no matter how well we play.

Will be interesting seeing how the team will react to having proper tactics to go by when faced by our biggest nemesis. I also see this as a test to AVBs motivational skills. Will he get them fired up?

A bent ref?

 

[elltrev]

Not true. Lennon was making runs and receiving passes like that from Corluka, Jenas, Carrick and Keane since 2005.

Exactly. It seems to me that people are desperate to attribute anything to AVB's supposed tactical knowledge / system, even if what the team is doing isn't particularly different to anything it has done before. (Not an AVB bash, by the way, just an observation).

 

[elltrev]

It's one of those truisms now that Defoe can't play as the 'lone striker'; I think it would be interesting to discuss why exactly people think that is? And why him playing with Sigurdsson is significantly different to him playing with Adebayor (for example)?

 

[WookieD]

Not true. Lennon was making runs and receiving passes like that from Corluka, Jenas, Carrick and Keane since 2005.

I can barely remember Carrick or Keane finding Lennon with that sort of ball, certainly not Jenas. Charlie was the one that used to send Lennon round the back all the time, it was a joy to watch until Harry replaced him with Walker. Siggy has looked to play Lennon in a few times this way already though so it will become a useful form of attack again hopefully.

As for Siggy's bad miss that someone else mentioned, Defoe should have passed it first time I thought but then, he did fantastically to create the chance in the first place. Everything positive yesterday apart from switching off in the last 5 mins again. As Dembele and Siggy get used to their new team mates and vice versa, I see goals coming a bit easier.

 

[WookieD]

Exactly. It seems to me that people are desperate to attribute anything to AVB's supposed tactical knowledge / system, even if what the team is doing isn't particularly different to anything it has done before. (Not an AVB bash, by the way, just an observation).

I think people are remembering things with misty eyes. Charlie absolutely used to send Lennon through, all the time in fact. But Carrick, Jenas and Keane? Carrick maybe a bit and Keane maybe a handful of times. In fact, up until the 09 season, great swathes of you lot were calling for Lennons head as he had no cross on him and never came inside apparently. It was only his dominance in the first half of the 09/10 season that people got off his back! People do remember things in a slanted way!

 

[ArcspacE]

People do remember things in a slanted way!

A true word if ever

 

[elltrev]

I think people are remembering things with misty eyes. Charlie absolutely used to send Lennon through, all the time in fact. But Carrick, Jenas and Keane? Carrick maybe a bit and Keane maybe a handful of times. In fact, up until the 09 season, great swathes of you lot were calling for Lennons head as he had no cross on him and never came inside apparently. It was only his dominance in the first half of the 09/10 season that people got off his back! People do remember things in a slanted way!

Quite possibly, but my point was just that attributing Lennon's run to AVB's influence was pure conjecture, especially given that Lennon has often made those sorts of runs in the past. Then again I have an awful memory, so maybe he did rarely do it under Harry. I'd be surprised though.

 

[braineclipse]

Just wanted to say that I thought AVB got his subs spot on yesterday, he also picked a very good starting 11.

He certainly has balls, leaving both Ade and Lloris on the bench when already under a bit of pressure after 3 games without a win.

 

[WookieD]

Quite possibly, but my point was just that attributing Lennon's run to AVB's influence was pure conjecture, especially given that Lennon has often made those sorts of runs in the past. Then again I have an awful memory, so maybe he did rarely do it under Harry. I'd be surprised though.

He didn't do it very often unless Charlie was playing... Which would point to it being who he is playing with maybe. Siggy has looked to play that sort of ball to him quite often for the short amount of time they have played together, mind you, Lennon and Defoe ran across each other yesterday for Lennon to get on the inside and it nearly came off, so his movement definitely looks to be sharper and more direct.

I would say that it is a combination of playing with someone that is looking to service him that way alongside AVB clearly asking him to come inside more often instead of waiting on the touchline all the time. All in all, it is reminding me a lot more of the Lennon pre injury 2009. He is mixing his game up a lot more again and they seem to have worked on someone making themselves available for the cut back just inside the box. People saying he was being too obvious and just hitting the wing have cleaerly forgotten how much he regressed after his injury, yesterday was very positive imo.

 

[elltrev]

He didn't do it very often unless Charlie was playing... Which would point to it being who he is playing with maybe. Siggy has looked to play that sort of ball to him quite often for the short amount of time they have played together, mind you, Lennon and Defoe ran across each other yesterday for Lennon to get on the inside and it nearly came off, so his movement definitely looks to be sharper and more direct.

I would say that it is a combination of playing with someone that is looking to service him that way alongside AVB clearly asking him to come inside more often instead of waiting on the touchline all the time. All in all, it is reminding me a lot more of the Lennon pre injury 2009. He is mixing his game up a lot more again and they seem to have worked on someone making themselves available for the cut back just inside the box. People saying he was being too obvious and just hitting the wing have cleaerly forgotten how much he regressed after his injury, yesterday was very positive imo.

Don't you think he was coming inside a lot under Redknapp though? It was one of the things a lot of people criticised him (Redknapp) for towards the end of the season!

In any case, I think Lennon has the ability to be effective when drifting inside sometimes, so I'm happy to see it.

 

[WookieD]

Don't you think he was coming inside a lot under Redknapp though? It was one of the things a lot of people criticised him (Redknapp) for towards the end of the season!

In any case, I think Lennon has the ability to be effective when drifting inside sometimes, so I'm happy to see it.

Drifting inside with the ball at his feet, not getting around the back of his FB, there's a big difference. Where Lennon is receiving the ball now, he has already beaten his man and only has a CB to contend with, which is either going to start creating scoring opportunities for himself or easier assists. This is in contrast to him drifting inside with the ball at his feet and just further conjesting the top of the area so that we have to play some intricate tippy-tappy just to try and get a shot on.