Kingdawson
Banned
So nobody noticed we didn't press nearly as much in the second half?
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AVB & Spurs Tactics and Formations discussion thread
- Thread starter BAE
- Start date
thfcsteff
George Hunt
Because our line-up, formation and personnel second-half asked more questions?
Kingdawson
Banned
Even when they had the ball we didn't press them like the maniacs we've usually looked like in other games and it was good to see.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
He certainly wised-up as to what was needed second-half. I was glad to see proof that he is not as stubborn as some would've perhaps suggested...
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
We pressed less after taking the lead for sure, but that's quite natural as the game dynamics obviously changed.
We pressed about the same at the start of the 2nd half as in the first, essentially allowing their centre backs and goalie to have the ball, but pressing the rest of their players. I thought our pressing was worse overall today, more times where Defoe and Sig/Dempsey were too far forward compared to the rest and easily bypassed.
I don't think that the tactics were the problem in the first half.
We seemed to run less, fight less, want the ball less, track runners less, win duels less and so on and so on. In short it looked like a European hangover type situation and the players just didn't show up. Passes were going astray, people weren't showing for passes or moving into good positions.
That's a problem we've had for ages, not just after European games mind, it's a mentality thing. We have to be 100% there every game, or at least close to that. Drop down to a 90% performance/effort against any Premiership team and they will be good enough to at least make it close.
If the players really were very tired then we need to rotate more, I think that there's an underlying mental issue that needs dealing with though.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
For me (IMHO) there was a clear, clear problem playing Sig and Dempsey in the same side as Dempsey looked very uncomfortable where he was, plus the whole selection meant Bale was at LB where he really needs someone who can work with him comfortably to allow him to push on, and Dempsey is not that fella! Obviously Bake's best further up the pitch (as we saw). We thus sat back a little too much and at times seemed to simply not be able to squeeze up! It appeared to me that neither Sig or Dempsey were comfortable where they were operating, they seemed confused almost, and as such, we ceded a lot of possession/didn't create like we'd have hoped. Once the adjustment was made at HT, it was very diff IMHO...
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
What I saw was very similar to what we have seen in the past, last time against Norwich and several times last season. It has been a problem regardless of selections, formations and tactics.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
Until I learn to spell BALE as BALE and not 'Bake' I will refrain from further comment!
We play(ed) like it's 2 mins left of the game and we're 1 goal behind.. for 90 minutes!
I really like the idea of winning the ball back FAST, like you see Barca and Real Madrid do! Problem for me is that we "stress" in attack too! Sometimes, sometimes, SOMETIMES, we need to calm down and keep possesion!
Hate to say this, but... We look a lot like "Ramos-tottenham".
I really hope it works out for Boas and us, coz he really seems like a good guy with a heart, but so far, we've been anything but impressive.
I really like the idea of winning the ball back FAST, like you see Barca and Real Madrid do! Problem for me is that we "stress" in attack too! Sometimes, sometimes, SOMETIMES, we need to calm down and keep possesion!
Hate to say this, but... We look a lot like "Ramos-tottenham".
I really hope it works out for Boas and us, coz he really seems like a good guy with a heart, but so far, we've been anything but impressive.
I thought AVB tactically got it spot on at half time, Dempsey clearly wasn't comfortable playing out wide, Bale can't play LB and Sigurdsson was having a shocker. He put Vertonghen LB and pushed Bale up, moved Dempsey into the middle and took off Sigurdsson and from that point on we were the better team.
Had it been Harry I feel he would've waited until the 75th minute to make any changes or he would've made a change at half-time and brought on a CDM or something like that when we're chasing the game.
Had it been Harry I feel he would've waited until the 75th minute to make any changes or he would've made a change at half-time and brought on a CDM or something like that when we're chasing the game.
So is there sufficient evidence to say the AVB system that was touted by fans prior to his arrival, simply isn't reflective of the way he wants to play?
This question isn't about whether the way he has us playing is good or not, so let's not get into that. But once again today we seemed to be playing in a way that doesn't really resemble the type of football many fans thought AVB would be trying to play. I've pointed out the long balls before and again today there were very evident and that stats say 18% of our passes were long ball. We looked to play the ball early and use the pace of our players to counter attack. The famous high line really didn't seem much, if at all higher than last season. I'm seeing very little of the patient possession game, where we open teams up with movement and better short passing. Today we didn't play a single through ball. That can't be down to chance. We also played less short passes in a home game than we did in any game last season. That can't be be random, as it's becoming more apparent as the season goes on.
I don't think the plan AVB has for our team is what most think it is.
This question isn't about whether the way he has us playing is good or not, so let's not get into that. But once again today we seemed to be playing in a way that doesn't really resemble the type of football many fans thought AVB would be trying to play. I've pointed out the long balls before and again today there were very evident and that stats say 18% of our passes were long ball. We looked to play the ball early and use the pace of our players to counter attack. The famous high line really didn't seem much, if at all higher than last season. I'm seeing very little of the patient possession game, where we open teams up with movement and better short passing. Today we didn't play a single through ball. That can't be down to chance. We also played less short passes in a home game than we did in any game last season. That can't be be random, as it's becoming more apparent as the season goes on.
I don't think the plan AVB has for our team is what most think it is.
Agree - he saw the problems and adjusted to suit. Three points and a much improved second half.
I already pointed out in another thread how ridiculous this way of thinking is and isn't reflective of the manager Harry was during his reign at Spurs. It's a crazy point to make given last time we played QPR harry took off a CDM and brought on a winger at half time.
Bullet
Andy Thompson
1) I think I'm right in saying that Moonlit Knight and Erik the Viking and Milo? and several others were keen on Bale being left back against weaker teams at home, but it didn't go so well... is it worth another go or do these people think it now doesn't work?
2) Some people have got very rose tinted memories of Harry Redknapp's reign - plenty of times we were just awesome, plenty of times we were lacklustre and clueless. You can't really compare AVB to Harry by picking out the odd example, it's like comparing New York and London, both have good and bad points so I don't see why there has to be a "winner".
2) Some people have got very rose tinted memories of Harry Redknapp's reign - plenty of times we were just awesome, plenty of times we were lacklustre and clueless. You can't really compare AVB to Harry by picking out the odd example, it's like comparing New York and London, both have good and bad points so I don't see why there has to be a "winner".
The Moonlit Knight
Banned
1) I do think it's an option but to make it a viable option we have to be dominating possession. It's a move I wish Redknapp had used a few times last season when we were dominating teams but struggling to break them down. It's not something I particularly want to see us line up with for kick off.
2) Agreed. The only thing that matters is Spurs. But I know personally I was irked by posters last year constantly having digs (most of the time needless IMO) digs at Redknapp and his tactical nouse, and yet now many of those same posters are sticking up for AVB's mistakes and saying we have to back him. As I stated before, it's cart before horse. A new manager deserves LESS patience than an established one who has done the club a good service or done well in the recent past. For me credit and time is earned, not given.
That said, judging us and AVB over 6 games is pure madness. A season is 38 games long and that is what matters. Everything else is "form" and there are so many outside influences (the way the fixture list came out, injuries etc.) that can influence short term form (and by short term I mean half a season) that you can never read too much into it.
My biggest concern about AVB is that he has done with us what he did with Chelsea. Rapid change of playing style, system, personnel etc. Everytime we have switched to 4-4-x we look so much better, and yet he insists on playing 4-5-1 (4-2-3-1 if you want to be pedantic) even though IMO it's obvious the personnel we have in the squad are not suited to it.
Nor do I subscribe to the excuse (and it is a poor excuse) that he should be cut a break because the personnel in the first team isn't as strong as last year. He lost Modric and had no control over that. That was the only non-AVB forced change to the squad. Everything else is down to AVB. And let us not forget we qualified for the Champion's League with Modric being absent for a good portion of that season. No excuses for us not to be top six this season IMHO. The players are good enough. AVB just has to give them a chance.....and that means playing 4-4-x.
Eriktheviking
Goran Bunjevcevic
Im watching the game now - well the match choice on sky, and i admit, he has been poor, or at least, not great. I personally think that he is a great winger, no question, but my anger comes when he is asked to effectively play up front - for me he is simply not effective there. Id rather him play left back that as a wing forward and let someone else who is equiped to play up front, to do so.
Its still the first half so cant comment on that but i hear he played left wing, his best position!
The Moonlit Knight
Banned
I've given up trying to counter the ridiculous anti-Harry revisionism that goes on in this forum now. What concerns me the most is how people are raving about AVB rectifying his fudge ups during a match when personally I think we should be looking to get it right from the kick off.
...which, in itself, is quite possibly trying to counter the ridiculous pro-Harry revisionism.
DHSF
Les Ferdinand
Hence all of us are going round in circles.
But can you not just believe for one moment - people did not want AVB? or so no reason to change something that didnt really need changing?
Sorry, fella, I've tried to make sense of your post but I'm struggling! Care to rephrase? Thanks!