AVB & Spurs Tactics and Formations discussion thread

[Rossi22]

Bale won't want to move wide again so I don't see 433 happening any time soon. Unless he's sold.

 

[AdamB]

That's five players. Quite an ask. You could probably drop one of the Strikers and decide to keep Ade/Defoe. Though four players of the quality we'd need is still a large ask, especially when i would consider three of them would need to be first team quality.

Thoughts?

Interesting post and I agree with a lot of teh sentiments. You have to factor in the fact that we're cash constrained at the moment though and, even if we do qualify for the CL, we wont be spending big until the financing of the stadium is 100% raised.

I could therefore see us potentially signing just two first team players this summer - a CF and a midfielder (similar in style to that which you mention) - and then starting the season with:

forwards: New CF, Defoe, Bale, Lennon, Dempsey, Townsend
mids: Sandro, Parker, New mid, Dembele, Siggy, Holtby, Carroll

In theory, thats 6/7 players for three positions both up front and in midield and excludes some youngsters like Livermore, Kane, potentially Luongo and others who could be used in Europa and Carling Cup games.

Like you, I would like to see us signing a 3rd player (verstaile forward) but cant see it happening. Signing the two above and selling Thudd and Ade appears realistic to me. Say £30m going out and £15m coming in. Cant see us buying any defenders in the summer so, barring us signing any kids or a replacement for Freidel, this would be the lot and its an amount I could see Levy sanctioning

 

[Spursalot]

the differences in 4-3-3 and 4-5-1 etc are just in style and player types. i think what people are anticipating is that AVB will be looking to sign the sort of players that he likes, and those players would presumably make it more 4-3-3 than 4-5-1 e.g Bale would play further forward than he would in harry's 4-4-1-1; having sandro, dembele and , for examples sake, moutinho would probably mean a rotating 3 in the centre. the main difference between all of them is the type of "1" that plays behind a striker.

The differences in any formation are just in style and player types.

 

[thejazzman]

The differences in any formation are just in style and player types.

This, lol.

 

[metalgear]

sure player types do have a big influence on formation and tactics - nevertheless how different do you think we are compared to Swansea and Liverpool?

 

[Raziel]

sure player types do have a big influence on formation and tactics - nevertheless how different do you think we are compared to Swansea and Liverpool?

Don't watch enough of either to truly make a definitive statement (watching Pool is penance), but basically it should highlight the point about players

- Swansea doesn't have a star, so it is probably the most "team aligned" setup of the three, vs. Pool and us who have Suarez/Gerrard and Bale/Demele as focal points
- Of the three, I think we have the most technically gifted side (compare Pools CBs vs. Vert)

All three try to play some kind of possession football with on the floor passing, but the Swansea game against us showed against better teams, they weren't beyond going route 1.

 

[kroakie123]

I think we'll continue to play a 4-2-3-1 fomation next season. I haven't read the stats but i'm sure we must have one of the best away record amongst the top 4 teams this season. If that's the case then that proves that we can do the business week in week out away from home, plus bear in mind we've picked up points on the road without some of our best players. Perhaps we should stick to what we already have in place, instead of changing things to a system that the palyers aren't used to. I expect our midfield pivot remain the same with parker as sandros back up and carroll/holtby filling in for dembele when nessceary. We simply just need to sign two strikers and a back up for lennon and i dear say we'll actually begin look like top 2 material.

 

[Raziel]

Might be as simple as .. if we get a player(s) that justifies a change in formation/tactics, we will make it.

 

[Spursalot]

Might be as simple as .. if we get a player(s) that justifies a change in formation/tactics, we will make it.

Maybe. I guess it would depend upon availability.


Do you buy to suit a formation, or buy talented players and change the formation to suit them?

 

[Bonsaiboy]

Do you know, I honestly think 99 percent of football fans - myself included - have something varying from a reasonably good understanding of what is happening tactically during a football match to understanding nothing at all. But we all miss the subtle nuances that football managers and top class pundits see. That is why we are not football managers or pundits.

In our own professions we see the things a laymen doesn't. Football is no different. We get more knowledgeable the more we watch it though. When I first started watching Spurs, I never understood why every time Gary Stevens went near the ball, people were shouting: "Stevens you f***in useless c**t!" But I understand fully why Kyle Walker has had a bit of that this season.

 

[Spursalot]

Do you know, I honestly think 99 percent of football fans - myself included - have something varying from a reasonably good understanding of what is happening tactically during a football match to understanding nothing at all. But we all miss the subtle nuances that football managers and top class pundits see. That is why we are not football managers or pundits.

In our own professions we see the things a laymen doesn't. Football is no different. We get more knowledgeable the more we watch it though. When I first started watching Spurs, I never understood why every time Gary Stevens went near the ball, people were shouting: "Stevens you f***in useless c**t!" But I understand fully why Kyle Walker has had a bit of that this season.

You're right. That's why we're all here though. To support spurs and increase our understanding of the game.


Well that's why i'm here.

 

[Modric THFC]

I cant see AVB moving after from 4231 tbh.
We've seen earlier in the season how Sandro and Dembele can dominate the midfield even in a 2 v 3 situation.
That effectively give AVB an extra player on the pitch.

I can't see him now moving Bale from his goal scoring central role. Any 433 would mean less goals from Bale.

 

[milo]

I cant see AVB moving after from 4231 tbh.
We've seen earlier in the season how Sandro and Dembele can dominate the midfield even in a 2 v 3 situation.
That effectively give AVB an extra player on the pitch.

I can't see him now moving Bale from his goal scoring central role. Any 433 would mean less goals from Bale.

I agree. Moving to 4-3-3 would also probably mean getting rid of Lennon which I cannot see us doing. This means, of course, that we are not going to sign the ball playing central midfielder that many seem to want. An upgrade on the left would be a higher priority if we continue to play 4-2-3-1 next season and Bale drifts.

 

[thejazzman]

I agree. Moving to 4-3-3 would also probably mean getting rid of Lennon which I cannot see us doing. This means, of course, that we are not going to sign the ball playing central midfielder that many seem to want. An upgrade on the left would be a higher priority if we continue to play 4-2-3-1 next season and Bale drifts.

I think thats where alot of this speculation has come from as well though; none of us here are Jose Mourinho, but i think most agree that a) we havent got enough goals from players other than Bale and b) we need a creative ball player. The question is whether either of those problems will be solved with better players on the left and upfront - if not, then a change of system is the answer. I think its easier to go 4-3-3, coz its probably easier/cheaper to get Bale to score goals from inside left with a playmaker in the middle of a 4-3-3 than it is to get a Mata/Hazard to play on the left in a 4-2-3-1.

 

[milo]

I think thats where alot of this speculation has come from as well though; none of us here are Jose Mourinho, but i think most agree that a) we havent got enough goals from players other than Bale and b) we need a creative ball player. The question is whether either of those problems will be solved with better players on the left and upfront - if not, then a change of system is the answer. I think its easier to go 4-3-3, coz its probably easier/cheaper to get Bale to score goals from inside left with a playmaker in the middle of a 4-3-3 than it is to get a Mata/Hazard to play on the left in a 4-2-3-1.

I think that a switch to 4-3-3 would be more expensive and require us to sign more first team starter quality players, than reinforcing/improving what we have in 4-2-3-1, which is one of the reasons why I do not think that we will switch.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Bale won't want to move wide again so I don't see 433 happening any time soon. Unless he's sold.

AVB's 4-3-3 at Porto was wonky. Hulk played inside right very close to Falcao, whilst Varela provided the width on the left. It was sort of:

-----------Falcao
----------------Hulk
Varela


which could easily be:

----------Ade
-------Bale
------------------Lennon

 

[Spursalot]

I think that a switch to 4-3-3 would be more expensive and require us to sign more first team starter quality players, than reinforcing/improving what we have in 4-2-3-1, which is one of the reasons why I do not think that we will switch.

4-2-3-1


Would require a new backup right midfielder, a new striker, a second new striker, and perhaps a versatile across the three attacking midfield roles. Assuming Sigurddsson and Townsend are the left hand options. With Bale/Dempsey in the middle. (in my opinion)

Possibly a backup for Dembele.

Other then that we'd just be upgrading positions. So would probably be a far less expensive move.


I think it's a matter of entertainment. Some want us to be a more entertaining side and i can see where that comes from. With a ball playing midfielder we would gain the passing game that they desire. However we can get the results without the ball playing mid, we just become a more defensive side. Which some find dull.

 

[milo]

4-2-3-1


Would require a new backup right midfielder, a new striker, a second new striker, and perhaps a versatile across the three attacking midfield roles. Assuming Sigurddsson and Townsend are the left hand options. With Bale/Dempsey in the middle. (in my opinion)

Possibly a backup for Dembele.

Other then that we'd just be upgrading positions. So would probably be a far less expensive move.


I think it's a matter of entertainment. Some want us to be a more entertaining side and i can see where that comes from. With a ball playing midfielder we would gain the passing game that they desire. However we can get the results without the ball playing mid, we just become a more defensive side. Which some find dull.

Not necessarily, we've got Townsend coming back and he could be understudy on either flank and Dempsey, Holtby and Sig can also provide back up. If we stick to 4-2-3-1 our priorities would/should be a striker and a first choice left inside forward.

I'm also not convinced that moving to 4-3-3 would make us more entertaining, I can think of plenty of dull 4-3-3 teams. Keeping our solid base but adding more options/quality in the front 4 should be more than enough to keep us entertained and help us break down teams that park the bus.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We will NOT IMO be moving to a 4-3-3. No one plays that system that's doing well in the league IMO and AVB has never said that's his preferred set up from what I've read

He has played it in the past granted but he has only managed at a senior level for 3 seasons and inherited most if the players at the clubs he has been at

4-2-3-1 is the formation we will go forward with with the middle 2 and the central player being key in the 3.

With Dembele and Sandro we have IMO the best central pair in the league by some way and that showed when they played together against 3 in the middle. Parker and Hotlby will also play there next season (Holtby has recently been vocal about playing in that position)

Bale currently plays the number 10 role in the middle of the 3 and we have back up for him in Siggy/Dempsey and possiblyPritchard

Our problem is other than Lennon the back up options are not paced wingers... There slow goalscorers which does hinder the set up (Dempsey and Siggy). Townsend will come on massively from his loan spell but we need 2 Pacey cover players and we need ones that AVB is willing to play. For me if Andros hadn't gone on loan I'm still not convinced he would have been played

The biggest constant issue is the striker or lack there of.... That needs to be addressed and I'd happily see all our mine go on 2 beasts to play that role. Ideally Lukaku and Benteke. But that's just my opinion

 

[Gutter Boy]

We will NOT IMO be moving to a 4-3-3. No one plays that system that's doing well in the league IMO and AVB has never said that's his preferred set up from what I've read

He has played it in the past granted but he has only managed at a senior level for 3 seasons and inherited most if the players at the clubs he has been at

4-2-3-1 is the formation we will go forward with with the middle 2 and the central player being key in the 3.

With Dembele and Sandro we have IMO the best central pair in the league by some way and that showed when they played together against 3 in the middle. Parker and Hotlby will also play there next season (Holtby has recently been vocal about playing in that position)

Bale currently plays the number 10 role in the middle of the 3 and we have back up for him in Siggy/Dempsey and possiblyPritchard

Our problem is other than Lennon the back up options are not paced wingers... There slow goalscorers which does hinder the set up (Dempsey and Siggy). Townsend will come on massively from his loan spell but we need 2 Pacey cover players and we need ones that AVB is willing to play. For me if Andros hadn't gone on loan I'm still not convinced he would have been played

The biggest constant issue is the striker or lack there of.... That needs to be addressed and I'd happily see all our mine go on 2 beasts to play that role. Ideally Lukaku and Benteke. But that's just my opinion

He has. He's said that his ideal way to play is always: “4-3-3 of ball possession and movement, and when necessary, the use of a high defence line and vigorous ball recovery”