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Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC

billyiddo said:
What posts/points in particular would you say have been extreme to the opposite of what P55 has posted there? Is it extreme to say Poch done a good job and there were some mitigating circumstances that are easily pointed out as reasons as to why we tailed off in the last year of his time here?

I'll try not to waste my time responding further, i think everyone can see for themselves what's what now we've had 4 years and employed a couple of the worlds best managers to put the job done in to context. More fool anyone who can't see it.
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I am trying to do the same, but it's pretty difficult. Maybe we can support each other LOL!
 
billyiddo said:
What posts/points in particular would you say have been extreme to the opposite of what P55 has posted there? Is it extreme to say Poch done a good job and there were some mitigating circumstances that are easily pointed out as reasons as to why we tailed off in the last year of his time here?

I'll try not to waste my time responding further, i think everyone can see for themselves what's what now we've had 4 years and employed a couple of the worlds best managers to put the job done in to context. More fool anyone who can't see it.
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It's so easy to say that he should have got more time because of how things have gone since. Everyone entering the debate knows it's a hypothetical that we'll never know but it's like those who were against his sacking can't fathom that things may very well have continued to deteriorate or just remained at the level they were - I don't think it's hyperbolic to say we would have been flirting with relegation on our current trajectory at the time. The justification that he saw the troubles coming because he called for a rebuild are nonsense but it seems a key lynchpin in the way to disregard exactly how bad things became under his stewardship for pretty much the last year league wise..

As for Wembley as another mitigation, I truly believe it was more difficult for the fans than the players, they're professionals paid to play football on a bit of grass, it's not like they were shunted to hackney marshes. What transpired on the pitch is that the players stopped playing for him and he became a haunted shell of the man he was out of frustration / despair, the players stopped playing for him and by doing so, broke him.

I've not seen any of the less than enthused about Poch folks denying that the good times weren't good. The argument that he took us the closest to winning something is debatable, play the CL final ten times over and I think we'd have lost it 9 out of 10 times as Klopp / Liverpool were miles ahead in terms of mentality / executing their plan when it mattered however Jose if allowed to have a crack at the carling cup final against City had more of a chance.

However, it's unlikely anyone is seriously going to change their opinion. Any pro poch-ers giving it the "I can't believe we're even having this discussion" just believe their own way of how a hypothetical would have went but nobody knows.

As for Conte, as this is his thread and all - It'll be fascinating to see where he ends up going plus whether his cohort of staff finishing up the job here this season will rejoin him. It's possibly a lazy suggestion but I'd guess he'd end up back in Serie A but I'm not particularly knowledgeable on the state of the top clubs over there.
 
Pirate55 said:
Poch largely inherited a first class team with quality players. Walker, Verts, Rose, Dembele, Eriksen and Kane - with Dele and Son bought for him. His only quality signings were Toby and Wanyama both from his previous club. The rest of his signings were disasters especially the expensive ones - Sanchez, Sissoko, NDombele, Aurier, LoCekso, Sess. Not one single success among the lot of them.

My take on Poch is that he really lucked out with a hungry young mainly English team willing and able to follow his instructions. For a few years it worked really well and to give him his credit he mounded them into an extremely good team of whom we were all proud. This was Poch Mk1.

However, there is a big but. Despite all the constraints were under - new stadium, financially doped rivals, strict wage limits etc, what in my view were his two principal failures:
1. He seemingly couldn't spot a decent player - his acquisition record is simply atrocious.
2. He was not a good coach. He failed to improve any of the 25 or so players brought in under his watch ( the N' triplets, Jansen, ) nor develop any of our promising youngsters outside the first team ( e.g. Edwards, Pritchard, Foyth etc).

This is the Poch Mk2 I don't want back. His book was a gargantuan mistake, his comments about leaving if we won the CL just bizarre, his playing of Son as a wingback doomed to failure, his record in important games and against key rivals was dire, his comments about lemons bordering on the insane, and playing a patently unfit Kane in the CL final instead of hattrick hero Lucas shows him over wedded to favourites, his tactics with no Plan B simplistic and his late subs sometimes unfathonable.

Plus he burdened us with N'Dombele, LoCelso and Sess.

Let's give a younger fresher manager a go. One that doesn't the have this baggage
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He didn’t ‘inherit’ a first class team with quality players at all. He organised and coached the players he inherited plus a few additions into a quality team, there is a big difference. None of those players there when he joined would’ve interested the biggest clubs in the country. A few years later almost all of them would’ve done so, that doesn’t just happen by accident.

We’ve since employed 3 full time managers who were incapable of doing a similar thing. We now desperately need our next appointment (that I don’t think should be Pochettino) to do the same sort of thing again.
 
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Mikey10 said:
Tottenham XG for the first half was 0.3, I believe.

Final XG was 1.39, as opposed to 1.88 against Southampton and 1.63 against Forest, Conte's last two PL games in charge.
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Really surprised it was only 0.3 in the first half. IIRC Kane had two really good chances - one cleared off the line and a relatively easy header. Both should have been at least a 0.5 each in my opinion.
 
Pirate55 said:
Really surprised it was only 0.3 in the first half. IIRC Kane had two really good chances - one cleared off the line and a relatively easy header. Both should have been at least a 0.5 each in my opinion.
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I think I know what you mean, but note your opinion doesn't matter, it is facts and stats of how often attempts from there go in.
 
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