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Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC

It's what he done here under the constraints the club was under during the stadium build that shows that he could take us past where we are now, not what he done at PSG. He had us performing much better whilst negotiating the Wembley fiasco, having to balance the books on transfers and whilst having a distant 6th/7th highest wage budget than what a succession of managers have managed to do whilst we're now settled in the new ground and have around the 3rd/4th highest transfer net spend in the league. Give that to the man who achieved more with less then logic implies he'd be well placed to push on.
 
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monkeybarry said:
Yes your comment about throwing things out without backing it up was unnecessarily douchey.

Poch results at PSG are about par for where PSG expect to be imho.
The point I was raising is that his time at PSG doesn't show he could definitely take us past where we currently are - you seem to think the opposite. What are you basing that upon?
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Apologies if it came across as having a go at you in particular. Wasn't meant that way. He's taken us beyond the point we are now already. I don't think I need to add to @billyiddo 's post above which sums up how I feel. That said I wouldnt mind giving Nagelsmann a chance either but not so sure about his man management.
 
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My hope is a Poch return and a successful one.
3-6th is probably about right for us.
It will be interesting to see - that last season wasn't great, but also not as disasters as most made out; I think most of us, including the club and squad, got over excited by a freak high league position and a champions League final.

Re: Nagelsman. I genuinely don't know. For some reason it makes me nervous. But I don't know why.

Either way, however takes over will have a very good but very very unbalanced squad (unless they play the same as Conte of course!).
 
monkeybarry said:
That's evidence that he's a good coach and builder. He also evidenced this at Soton.
It's not evidence he can take us any further than he did before. PSG indicated he may not be able to.
I'm not saying either way - just being cautious.
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I don't think his time at PSG really tells us anything. There are managers that build teams into contenders and others that take a group of talented players to success. Poch is the former and managers like Zidane and Ancelotti are the latter. It doesn't mean that both aren't quality managers. But you put them in a situation that they are not built for and they will not have much success.

Taking Poch from a team that he built and thrusting him into the PSG manager's seat is about as 180 degrees as it gets. So to judge him on whether he could take us to the next level based on his stint at PSG is apples and oranges. If Poch comes back, he will need some time to build his team. Hopefully most of the pieces will already be there, but they may not. But give him a couple of years with a many more resources than he had the first time around and he could be the one that takes us further.
 
Robspur12 said:
So he's there for just one and a half seasons takes them to the semis in one year and then gets knocked out by serial winners Real Madrid next season but he's not pulling up trees? That is a fairly blinkered analysis. Not surprised then that I am "douchey"....
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If he was doing such a good job at PSG why did he get sacked?
 
billyiddo said:
It's what he done here under the constraints the club was under during the stadium build that shows that he could take us past where we are now, not what he done at PSG. He had us performing much better whilst negotiating the Wembley fiasco, having to balance the books on transfers and whilst having a distant 6th/7th highest wage budget than what a succession of managers have managed to do whilst we're now settled in the new ground and have around the 3rd/4th highest transfer net spend in the league. Give that to the man who achieved more with less then logic implies he'd be well placed to push on.
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Poch largely inherited a first class team with quality players. Walker, Verts, Rose, Dembele, Eriksen and Kane - with Dele and Son bought for him. His only quality signings were Toby and Wanyama both from his previous club. The rest of his signings were disasters especially the expensive ones - Sanchez, Sissoko, NDombele, Aurier, LoCekso, Sess. Not one single success among the lot of them.

My take on Poch is that he really lucked out with a hungry young mainly English team willing and able to follow his instructions. For a few years it worked really well and to give him his credit he mounded them into an extremely good team of whom we were all proud. This was Poch Mk1.

However, there is a big but. Despite all the constraints were under - new stadium, financially doped rivals, strict wage limits etc, what in my view were his two principal failures:
1. He seemingly couldn't spot a decent player - his acquisition record is simply atrocious.
2. He was not a good coach. He failed to improve any of the 25 or so players brought in under his watch ( the N' triplets, Jansen, ) nor develop any of our promising youngsters outside the first team ( e.g. Edwards, Pritchard, Foyth etc).

This is the Poch Mk2 I don't want back. His book was a gargantuan mistake, his comments about leaving if we won the CL just bizarre, his playing of Son as a wingback doomed to failure, his record in important games and against key rivals was dire, his comments about lemons bordering on the insane, and playing a patently unfit Kane in the CL final instead of hattrick hero Lucas shows him over wedded to favourites, his tactics with no Plan B simplistic and his late subs sometimes unfathonable.

Plus he burdened us with N'Dombele, LoCelso and Sess.

Let's give a younger fresher manager a go. One that doesn't the have this baggage
 
I loved his comments about lemons, in fact it made me love him more. There is so much more to life.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Fapatalk
 
Pirate55 said:
Poch largely inherited a first class team with quality players. Walker, Verts, Rose, Dembele, Eriksen and Kane - with Dele and Son bought for him. His only quality signings were Toby and Wanyama both from his previous club. The rest of his signings were disasters especially the expensive ones - Sanchez, Sissoko, NDombele, Aurier, LoCekso, Sess. Not one single success among the lot of them.

My take on Poch is that he really lucked out with a hungry young mainly English team willing and able to follow his instructions. For a few years it worked really well and to give him his credit he mounded them into an extremely good team of whom we were all proud. This was Poch Mk1.

However, there is a big but. Despite all the constraints were under - new stadium, financially doped rivals, strict wage limits etc, what in my view were his two principal failures:
1. He seemingly couldn't spot a decent player - his acquisition record is simply atrocious.
2. He was not a good coach. He failed to improve any of the 25 or so players brought in under his watch ( the N' triplets, Jansen, ) nor develop any of our promising youngsters outside the first team ( e.g. Edwards, Pritchard, Foyth etc).

This is the Poch Mk2 I don't want back. His book was a gargantuan mistake, his comments about leaving if we won the CL just bizarre, his playing of Son as a wingback doomed to failure, his record in important games and against key rivals was dire, his comments about lemons bordering on the insane, and playing a patently unfit Kane in the CL final instead of hattrick hero Lucas shows him over wedded to favourites, his tactics with no Plan B simplistic and his late subs sometimes unfathonable.

Plus he burdened us with N'Dombele, LoCelso and Sess.

Let's give a younger fresher manager a go. One that doesn't the have this baggage
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As usual the comments go from one extreme to another on here.

Good luck with the poch debate mk79
 
Lilbaz said:
As usual the comments go from one extreme to another on here.

Good luck with the poch debate mk79
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What posts/points in particular would you say have been extreme to the opposite of what P55 has posted there? Is it extreme to say Poch done a good job and there were some mitigating circumstances that are easily pointed out as reasons as to why we tailed off in the last year of his time here?

I'll try not to waste my time responding further, i think everyone can see for themselves what's what now we've had 4 years and employed a couple of the worlds best managers to put the job done in to context. More fool anyone who can't see it.
 
Pirate55 said:
Poch largely inherited a first class team with quality players. Walker, Verts, Rose, Dembele, Eriksen and Kane - with Dele and Son bought for him. His only quality signings were Toby and Wanyama both from his previous club. The rest of his signings were disasters especially the expensive ones - Sanchez, Sissoko, NDombele, Aurier, LoCekso, Sess. Not one single success among the lot of them.

My take on Poch is that he really lucked out with a hungry young mainly English team willing and able to follow his instructions. For a few years it worked really well and to give him his credit he mounded them into an extremely good team of whom we were all proud. This was Poch Mk1.

However, there is a big but. Despite all the constraints were under - new stadium, financially doped rivals, strict wage limits etc, what in my view were his two principal failures:
1. He seemingly couldn't spot a decent player - his acquisition record is simply atrocious.
2. He was not a good coach. He failed to improve any of the 25 or so players brought in under his watch ( the N' triplets, Jansen, ) nor develop any of our promising youngsters outside the first team ( e.g. Edwards, Pritchard, Foyth etc).

This is the Poch Mk2 I don't want back. His book was a gargantuan mistake, his comments about leaving if we won the CL just bizarre, his playing of Son as a wingback doomed to failure, his record in important games and against key rivals was dire, his comments about lemons bordering on the insane, and playing a patently unfit Kane in the CL final instead of hattrick hero Lucas shows him over wedded to favourites, his tactics with no Plan B simplistic and his late subs sometimes unfathonable.

Plus he burdened us with N'Dombele, LoCelso and Sess.

Let's give a younger fresher manager a go. One that doesn't the have this baggage
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You forgot "he didn't practice corners in training." :p
 
billyiddo said:
What posts/points in particular would you say have been extreme to the opposite of what P55 has posted there? Is it extreme to say Poch done a good job and there were some mitigating circumstances that are easily pointed out as reasons as to why we tailed off in the last year of his time here?

I'll try not to waste my time responding further, i think everyone can see for themselves what's what now we've had 4 years and employed a couple of the worlds best managers to put the job done in to context. More fool anyone who can't see it.
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The posts in absolute denial that there might have been a reason to sack him.

I think we should have given him till the end of the season to turn it around. But i can understand why he was sacked.
 
Lilbaz said:
The posts in absolute denial that there might have been a reason to sack him.

I think we should have given him till the end of the season to turn it around. But i can understand why he was sacked.
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Do people deny the reasons or disagree with them? The latter for me - and i wouldn't say that's an extreme position to take.
 
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