Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC

[Grays_1890]

I agree, though at the same time that was a decision that was made after (or before) signing Spence. I don't think there were real attempts at selling Doherty or Emerson?

I think that showed that Conte didn't really trust Spence. Had he really trusted Spence highly we would have tried to arrange the squad to where he was one of two options?

When there were injuries Conte even used Perisic at RWB at times iirc.

We can speculate about Conte's intentions, why he doesn't trust Spence more. But ultimately he doesn't trust Spence yet. He has trusted other young (and younger) players more here and at previous clubs. It's not like Spence it's 18 either, he's 22.

Ultimately it's down to Spence to do enough to make Conte trust him. In training, if he goes on loan, when he gets minutes however limited. Show Conte that he can and will deliver what Conte wants from him.

What Conte wants to see from Spence is impossible to know from the outside. Hopefully Spence himself has a very clear idea of what Conte wants from him.

That is all true and I won't go over my points on Spence as I know I have bored everyone with them already but Spence aside I maintain that if Conte is to succeed at Spurs it works both ways with youth and he will have to find a way of being more trusting however alien that may be. We are never going to be a City, Chelsea or United

That's broadly speaking as per the convos about transfer strategy

 

[braineclipse]

That is all true and I won't go over my points on Spence as I know I have bored everyone with them already but Spence aside I maintain that if Conte is to succeed at Spurs it works both ways with youth and he will have to find a way of being more trusting however alien that may be. We are never going to be a City, Chelsea or United

That's broadly speaking as per the convos about transfer strategy

I agree. There has to be some balance found between youth and experience. There has to be development of younger players.

I think some of that at least is on Paratici. Finding those younger players that will fit well enough for Conte to trust them soon enough. Like with Kulusevski. Seems that Sarr and Gil may end up fitting that bill too, let's see.

Some of that is on Conte too of course. He has previous of finding solutions when he has to, but I think it's usually a bit of a messy process.

 

[braineclipse]

Second-half at Palace, besides the game shape suiting him, I felt Gil simply played football as opposed to trying too hard to impress every single time he had the ball. Very encouraging...

Very understandable that young players not getting a lot of minutes try too hard to impress.

At the same time imo understandable that a manager like Conte is reluctant to use a player if the game is at all in the balance if that's how they'll play.

I thought he had encouraging moments against Villa and in that first half against Palace too. But the second half against Palace was obviously a step up.

Very positive comments from Conte too.

 

[braineclipse]

https://www.tribalfootball.com/arti...ni-sarr-a-great-player-with-potential-4442669

He said of Sarr: "He's a very young player. It's the first time he came to England. He has one year experience in Ligue 1 in France. About his skill, he can do everything because he's a great player with many possibilities. He's a midfielder who can play in many positions. He's a talented player.

"I spoke at my last press conference about the way you have to wait with young players. If you use young players at the wrong time, you can make a mistake. But with Pape, Antonio decided at this moment that Pape is ready and he improved a lot in training.

"We worked a lot on body position and many skills he has to improve. He showed a desire to improve and this is very important for us. If you work with a player and they show this desire it's easier. With Pape it is easy. He has to continue to work because we have a hierarchy, so he has to respect this and we have to respect the players. He has the possibility now and he has to show his desire and his quality."

I think Conte rarely speaks of youth development and how young players are training. Kind of interesting to read these quotes from Stellini who seems to speak more freely about it.

Good work now for half a season on the training ground. Working on some of the things that are important to get better at to fit this system, this role. Reports about him impressing Conte after returning from the World Cup earlier.

Then he gets his chance. Sure, because of injuries. As Stellini says, there's a hierarchy and the players need to respect that. Probably need to take the chances they get, even if limited.

To me though, what gets overlooked sometimes is that there is important work being done with these younger players on the training ground. Loans aren't the only path to development at this age, though that's also a viable path.

And as we're seeing players can move from that to getting more trust from Conte. Yes, injuries, but trust I don't think he had 6 months ago.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a similar story to be told about other young players. Gil doing well now. Spence getting at least some meaningful minutes. The briefest of cameos, but a cameo non the less for Devine.

 

[elltrev]

https://www.tribalfootball.com/arti...ni-sarr-a-great-player-with-potential-4442669



I think Conte rarely speaks of youth development and how young players are training. Kind of interesting to read these quotes from Stellini who seems to speak more freely about it.

Good work now for half a season on the training ground. Working on some of the things that are important to get better at to fit this system, this role. Reports about him impressing Conte after returning from the World Cup earlier.

Then he gets his chance. Sure, because of injuries. As Stellini says, there's a hierarchy and the players need to respect that. Probably need to take the chances they get, even if limited.

To me though, what gets overlooked sometimes is that there is important work being done with these younger players on the training ground. Loans aren't the only path to development at this age, though that's also a viable path.

And as we're seeing players can move from that to getting more trust from Conte. Yes, injuries, but trust I don't think he had 6 months ago.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a similar story to be told about other young players. Gil doing well now. Spence getting at least some meaningful minutes. The briefest of cameos, but a cameo non the less for Devine.

Interesting to hear Conte say ‘he has to respect the hierarchy’. should have course just be a language issue. But it does feel at times like Conte has a set hierarchy of players, and doesn’t like to break it in the short term. E.g. not dropping Son despite terrible form, always playing Royal at the beginning of the season, not giving subs much playtime etc.

 

[Raziel]

Interesting to hear Conte say ‘he has to respect the hierarchy’. should have course just be a language issue. But it does feel at times like Conte has a set hierarchy of players, and doesn’t like to break it in the short term. E.g. not dropping Son despite terrible form, always playing Royal at the beginning of the season, not giving subs much playtime etc.

Very similar philosophy to most top coaches

- You need to earn your spot
- If it's yours, you don't lose it on one/two bad games

 

[glorygloryeze]

Very similar philosophy to most top coaches

- You need to earn your spot
- If it's yours, you don't lose it on one/two bad games

Surely top coaches who demand bigger squads so that they can win as many trophies as possible need to rotate more to:
a) keep everyone on their toes so complacency cannot set in
b) give themselves as much rotation options as they can without standards dropping too drastically and
c) not inevitably run their players into the ground physically and mentally.

Agree about any player needing to earn their spot, but should also work the other way round: if you slack and/or stop being able to do the basic (control a ball, play simple passes, put in effort to stop opposition etc) then said player should become 'droppable'.
Imagine where we'd be if Son was dropped for Richarlison earlier in the season instead of Kulusevski being relegated to the bench (i mean before the Arsenal game, after which he was injured)?

SAF rotation in his treble year of 1998-99 might still be the best we've ever seen a top coach manage an elite-level squad. Imo if Conte wants to really be elite level (i.e. being able to handle games every 3/4 days and not have crashes as he often seems to) then he'd do well to do just some of what SAF did to great effect.

 

[Raziel]

Surely top coaches who demand bigger squads so that they can win as many trophies as possible need to rotate more to:
a) keep everyone on their toes so complacency cannot set in
b) give themselves as much rotation options as they can without standards dropping too drastically and
c) not inevitably run their players into the ground physically and mentally.

Agree about any player needing to earn their spot, but should also work the other way round: if you slack and/or stop being able to do the basic (control a ball, play simple passes, put in effort to stop opposition etc) then said player should become 'droppable'.
Imagine where we'd be if Son was dropped for Richarlison earlier in the season instead of Kulusevski being relegated to the bench (i mean before the Arsenal game, after which he was injured)?

SAF rotation in his treble year of 1998-99 might still be the best we've ever seen a top coach manage an elite-level squad. Imo if Conte wants to really be elite level (i.e. being able to handle games every 3/4 days and not have crashes as he often seems to) then he'd do well to do just some of what SAF did to great effect.

I'm not saying it's my concept, just that quite a few top coaches simply don't rotate in the way that aligns with what you laid out.

SAF is a very different scenario, 1. different time, less competitive league (you could afford to drop more points), 2. IIRC he often played the younger players earlier in season and leveraged the "senior" players on the back end of season. 3. He was a very adaptable manager (and obviously good)

Conte like Jose has been somewhat exposed by Spurs, difference is Cone is young enough, is undamaged enough, that he can learn/adapt.

- I'd really like to see he learn how to have a plan to incorporate 1-2 young players into the system, including giving them playing time
- I'd like to see us be able to play something other than this 3-4-3, especially when we know the opponent will overload the midfield.
- I'd like to see us take the handbrake off sometimes, a go for it plan ..

 

[glorygloryeze]

I'm not saying it's my concept, just that quite a few top coaches simply don't rotate in the way that aligns with what you laid out.

SAF is a very different scenario, 1. different time, less competitive league (you could afford to drop more points), 2. IIRC he often played the younger players earlier in season and leveraged the "senior" players on the back end of season. 3. He was a very adaptable manager (and obviously good)

Conte like Jose has been somewhat exposed by Spurs, difference is Cone is young enough, is undamaged enough, that he can learn/adapt.

- I'd really like to see he learn how to have a plan to incorporate 1-2 young players into the system, including giving them playing time
- I'd like to see us be able to play something other than this 3-4-3, especially when we know the opponent will overload the midfield.
- I'd like to see us take the handbrake off sometimes, a go for it plan ..

Agree with you on most of that tbf. Though i'd say SAF still had a decent rotation policy even after the PL got crazily competitive post Roman buying Chelsea.

I also agree Conte really being tested to the full here: i'd also go as far as saying he might have to succeed with us, partly on our terms if he wants another elite level job.
His record in Europe (and dealing with more than 2 games a week which most of the top coaches have to navigate if they are successful) means only new "Sportswashers" will take him on if he is seem to actively fail with us....

Hopefully that is what will be in the back of his mind to get success with us and keep evolving.

 

[Raziel]

Agree with you on most of that tbf. Though i'd say SAF still had a decent rotation policy even after the PL got crazily competitive post Roman buying Chelsea.

I also agree Conte really being tested to the full here: i'd also go as far as saying he might have to succeed with us, partly on our terms if he wants another elite level job.
His record in Europe (and dealing with more than 2 games a week which most of the top coaches have to navigate if they are successful) means only new "Sportswashers" will take him on if he is seem to actively fail with us....

Hopefully that is what will be in the back of his mind to get success with us and keep evolving.

Conte will land on his feet, it's way too easy to paint Spurs as the problem, the reason he didn't succeed. His bigger issue will be with clubs (in the very small pool at the top) that are willing to take on a manager that is a constant PR nightmare, isn't a team player.

I will give Conte credit on one thing, I think he relishes the challenge (he could find an easier gig), I think he knows the PL is the test, and doing it with Spurs in the PL is potentially the ultimate test.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Conte will land on his feet, it's way too easy to paint Spurs as the problem, the reason he didn't succeed. His bigger issue will be with clubs (in the very small pool at the top) that are willing to take on a manager that is a constant PR nightmare, isn't a team player.

I think the ease of painting Spurs as the problem is somewhat reduced given the backing he has already received: it's one thing to get edged out by the likes of Emirates Marketing Project, Liverpool etc but a totally different thing to be schooled constantly by lower in the table coaches and look so often limp in Europe (and not just with us). If he fully flops with us only a Saudi Sportswashing Machine type who want to break the top 4 or domestic title ceiling and who won't care so much about getting knocked out early in Europe will go for him imo. People within football's circles will know about Spurs (both the good and bad).

I will give Conte credit on one thing, I think he relishes the challenge (he could find an easier gig), I think he knows the PL is the test, and doing it with Spurs in the PL is potentially the ultimate test.

I totally agree with this; it's what gives me hope in that i think t heart he is much more a coach than, say, Jose

 

[Finney Is Back]

I think the ease of painting Spurs as the problem is somewhat reduced given the backing he has already received: it's one thing to get edged out by the likes of Emirates Marketing Project, Liverpool etc but a totally different thing to be schooled constantly by lower in the table coaches and look so often limp in Europe (and not just with us). If he fully flops with us only a Saudi Sportswashing Machine type who want to break the top 4 or domestic title ceiling and who won't care so much about getting knocked out early in Europe will go for him imo. People within football's circles will know about Spurs (both the good and bad).



I totally agree with this; it's what gives me hope in that i think t heart he is much more a coach than, say, Jose

If Conte were to depart Spurs then he would be picked up by whoever was the first of the 'big' clubs to jettison their manager.

 

[glorygloryeze]

If Conte were to depart Spurs then he would be picked up by whoever was the first of the 'big' clubs to jettison their manager.

Whoever would be happy to throw money at him and not ask questions about "why are we continually so poor in Europe given our spending"...that's if he were to go currently.
If we do well in the CL this year (e.g. semi-finals) then his stock will stablise. Atm, lack of good CL runs is a big blot on his CV given the clubs he has worked at and the spending he has been able to have access to

 

[markysimmo]

I genuinely think if Chelsea gazump us on Porro (£5m being the figure we're short) I can see him walking

 

[Baleforce]

I genuinely think if Chelsea gazump us on Porro (£5m being the figure we're short) I can see him walking

if its chelsea in for him too, we are not short 5m, they will outbid whatever we come up with

 

[Bishop]

if its chelsea in for him too, we are not short 5m, they will outbid whatever we come up with

His release clause is reportedly €40m and that is what Sporting are requiring us to pay. If Chelsea pay more than the release clause then sure no complaints but if we won't pay the release clause and they will then yes the fans who co plain will have grounds to.

Sent from my XQ-BC72 using Fapatalk

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I genuinely think if Chelsea gazump us on Porro (£5m being the figure we're short) I can see him walking

He is t walking away from £12m a year

 

[DubSpur]

His release clause is reportedly €40m and that is what Sporting are requiring us to pay. If Chelsea pay more than the release clause then sure no complaints but if we won't pay the release clause and they will then yes the fans who co plain will have grounds to.

Sent from my XQ-BC72 using Fapatalk

Chelsea won't pay more than the release clause. Even if they did pay more than the release clause, we would still only have to match the release clause and then it's down to the player where he wants to go.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Chelsea won't pay more than the release clause. Even if they did pay more than the release clause, we would still only have to match the release clause and then it's down to the player where he wants to go.

They don’t want him
There doing what they have dome with Mudryk…

 

[AdamB]

I genuinely think if Chelsea gazump us on Porro (£5m being the figure we're short) I can see him walking

Depends on what other business we do. I can't believe that Kulu, Bentancur etc were the only players on the list when we went for them and might not have been Conte's first choice