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Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC

Diamond Lights said:
been busy so less time on here, few thoughts on Brighton and Brentford. I think Conte got it wrong both times. A lot of slating on Royal and we have definitely looked worse since Doherty's injury, but i'm sorry, you can't put those two performances down to a Doherty being out. No shots in target because of a RWB out of the team who would probably be replaced immediately in the Summer anyway? no danger.

Brighton and Brentford done a great job of setting up for the expected. Conte changed personnel in both games but didn't alter a quite clearly failing formation in those 2 games. I don't think dramatic changes were even required, perhaps just an adjustment midmatch to see if moving Kulu more central, going 3-5-2 and trying to control the middle more.

Our two CMs in both games could not control the game, and we could not get the ball anywhere near Kane, Son, Kulu. So why stick with it? I think Conte can do wonders for us if he sticks around, but he is stubborn and i put those 2 failures in the past 2 games on him. By 70mins against Brighton, it was clearly not working. To do the same for the entirety of Brentford is just foolish. And they too should have snatched a late winner.

I'm not saying to do away with 3-4-3 but if it isn't working, he needs to show a Plan B. And he didn't and that cost us.

One other thinkg i'd like to raise was on the View from the Lane podcast. These PSG rumours, the constant complaining and the contract that ends 1 year from now. It's all not going to help things. He whines a lot, i get that, but i have no doubts some players must be thinking "he'll be gone in 1 year max anyway". So either we look to extend the contract now, or perhaps we let him go in the Summer. but i dont' see the postives of all of these factors helping us now.
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Had we been equally poor against Leicester I guess the argument would have been that Conte was being stubborn again. In a way he was stubborn regardless of the outcome.

He is stubborn, most top managers are. If you're struggling is it more likely that the players will find improvement with what they've been working on for months or with something a bit new. I don't know the answer to that, but it seems like Conte is rather convinced that the answer is stick with what he's been trying to instill. I can understand that, even though I sometimes want a change just because change something.

I think he has enough authority to get away with one year left, speculation and complaining. We have two disappointing performances and results in the last seven games. That's still five rather good performances. I see no real signs of the players reacting negatively.

3 points in either the Brighton or Brentford game would have been huge. But five wins, one draw from these seven games is pretty good.
 
When you think about it, having Conte's deal end a year from now isn't all bad. If things go well next year - top four finish - we'll get him back for more seasons. If not, well, it's likely Our Man Mauricio will be footloose and fancy free. And it might also be time to ponder whether to go for Graham Potter at Brighton. His Brighton teams have routinely played a bright, attractive style that would suit our club aesthetic but would provide the finishing touches so sadly lacking at Brighton.
 
It's been a long up and down season for sure, BUT we've virtually sewn up 6th place and 1 win from finishing 5th. So EL qualification minimum. Look above us and an expectation to finish above Chelsea Emirates Marketing Project and Liverpool is just unrealistic, even if Conte was appointed in the summer.

It's the proximity and tussle with the Goons that will colour everyone's feelings come the end of the season BUT their manager is 3 seasons in, to push for CL when our guy is just 5/6 months in is praiseworthy. If we finish 4th that is literally the absolute best we should have expected this season...so we are not far off.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
It's been a long up and down season for sure, BUT we've virtually sewn up 6th place and 1 win from finishing 5th. So EL qualification minimum. Look above us and an expectation to finish above Chelsea Emirates Marketing Project and Liverpool is just unrealistic, even if Conte was appointed in the summer.

It's the proximity and tussle with the Goons that will colour everyone's feelings come the end of the season BUT their manager is 3 seasons in, to push for CL when our guy is just 5/6 months in is praiseworthy. If we finish 4th that is literally the absolute best we should have expected this season...so we are not far off.
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My thoughts as well, you only have to go back and read what some thought of our chances were for finishing in the top half let alone qualifying for Europe. Conte has made us a better team allready and i believe he will make us even better .
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
It's been a long up and down season for sure, BUT we've virtually sewn up 6th place and 1 win from finishing 5th. So EL qualification minimum. Look above us and an expectation to finish above Chelsea Emirates Marketing Project and Liverpool is just unrealistic, even if Conte was appointed in the summer.

It's the proximity and tussle with the Goons that will colour everyone's feelings come the end of the season BUT their manager is 3 seasons in, to push for CL when our guy is just 5/6 months in is praiseworthy. If we finish 4th that is literally the absolute best we should have expected this season...so we are not far off.
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Bingo
 
braineclipse said:
Had we been equally poor against Leicester I guess the argument would have been that Conte was being stubborn again. In a way he was stubborn regardless of the outcome.

He is stubborn, most top managers are. If you're struggling is it more likely that the players will find improvement with what they've been working on for months or with something a bit new. I don't know the answer to that, but it seems like Conte is rather convinced that the answer is stick with what he's been trying to instill. I can understand that, even though I sometimes want a change just because change something.

I think he has enough authority to get away with one year left, speculation and complaining. We have two disappointing performances and results in the last seven games. That's still five rather good performances. I see no real signs of the players reacting negatively.

3 points in either the Brighton or Brentford game would have been huge. But five wins, one draw from these seven games is pretty good.
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fair points but if you re-watch the first half of Leicester, we were pretty poor. In fact up until the goal they were the better team and should have been ahead.
 
I'm quite excited for this summer window to be honest. We are pushing 4th with a squad that has huge areas for potential improvement, not least the WBs which are crucial to Contes preferred set up. 6 months in now and Conte & Paratici must have a clear idea on what we need this summer / plus who can go.

If he can fix all the areas he wants then we could be a well oiled machine next season.

My only worry is the homegrown situation. The back up GK is one easy fix but it's worrying that Kane and Skipp might be our only homegrown players that could not be easily upgraded on. Winks, Tanganga, Davies, Dier, Sessegnon could all potentially go and be replaced but at some point we need to bring in some homegrown players that could go straight into the first team.
 
Diamond Lights said:
fair points but if you re-watch the first half of Leicester, we were pretty poor. In fact up until the goal they were the better team and should have been ahead.
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I think that's been true for several of our wins in recent months. Keep it tight at the back, try to get a goal. Most likely through a counter attack, playing through their press or a set piece. If we get the first goal we're often very good, if not we often struggle.

Would be good if we had another plan to fall back on, not sure that plan exists. Not sure that plan is particularly realistic given the players we have. Drill the primary system, get that better, stick with it. I think it's a decent plan.
 
braineclipse said:
I think that's been true for several of our wins in recent months. Keep it tight at the back, try to get a goal. Most likely through a counter attack, playing through their press or a set piece. If we get the first goal we're often very good, if not we often struggle.

Would be good if we had another plan to fall back on, not sure that plan exists. Not sure that plan is particularly realistic given the players we have. Drill the primary system, get that better, stick with it. I think it's a decent plan.
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That does look that pattern. In all honesty it's probably too late this season to layer on any new stuff system wise. As you say, just keep refining the one way we have of playing for these last few games.
The problem is there is a not so hard to find blueprint to stop us now, and it does indeed, stop us. Whether there is anything that can be tweaked within our own focused approach that can help on those days, I'm not so sure. I think the average WBs we are starting limits that somewhat.

That said, I don't see Liverpool, Arsenal, Norwich employing that blueprint. Perhaps Burnley (but that could depend on the result they need) but even then we may have got a bit lucky that Dyche has gone and the guys in temporary charge not so tactically minded.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
That does look that pattern. In all honesty it's probably too late this season to layer on any new stuff system wise. As you say, just keep refining the one way we have of playing for these last few games.
The problem is there is a not so hard to find blueprint to stop us now, and it does indeed, stop us. Whether there is anything that can be tweaked within our own focused approach that can help on those days, I'm not so sure. I think the average WBs we are starting limits that somewhat.

That said, I don't see Liverpool, Arsenal, Norwich employing that blueprint. Perhaps Burnley (but that could depend on the result they need) but even then we may have got a bit lucky that Dyche has gone and the guys in temporary charge not so tactically minded.
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I don't think that we are ever likely to see another system under Conte. We are not suddenly going to switch to being a possession side. Upgrading our wingbacks and having more options in central midfield will make a big difference and make us a little harder to defend against. We like to talk about different formations but I doubt that would make a huge difference, formations are fluid and we would still end up seeing most of the same players ending up in most of the same positions regardless of formation.
 
braineclipse said:
I think that's been true for several of our wins in recent months. Keep it tight at the back, try to get a goal. Most likely through a counter attack, playing through their press or a set piece. If we get the first goal we're often very good, if not we often struggle.

Would be good if we had another plan to fall back on, not sure that plan exists. Not sure that plan is particularly realistic given the players we have. Drill the primary system, get that better, stick with it. I think it's a decent plan.
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which brings me back to my original point though, when that fails, like Brighton, we tried the same against Brentford and it was clearly not working there too. You can't just stick with it and hope Kane and Son pull a worldie, that's Jose ball. I expect better from Conte to try something else.
 
Diamond Lights said:
which brings me back to my original point though, when that fails, like Brighton, we tried the same against Brentford and it was clearly not working there too. You can't just stick with it and hope Kane and Son pull a worldie, that's Jose ball. I expect better from Conte to try something else.
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He has never done anything else his whole career
He believes in his system and his go to is to change the personnel not the system
 
Bedfordspurs said:
He has never done anything else his whole career
He believes in his system and his go to is to change the personnel not the system
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And you also don’t see City or Liverpool changing theirs, they just bring on players with slightly different attributes ie Diaz, Firmino, Grealish etc.

As @milo says above, having more options next year will help us immeasurably. I was looking at Liverpool’s bench last night and I felt every single one would be able to contribute, if called upon. How many do we have who could reliably do the same, including the injureds? Two? Three? If that.
 
DaveT316 said:
And you also don’t see City or Liverpool changing theirs, they just bring on players with slightly different attributes ie Diaz, Firmino, Grealish etc.

As @milo says above, having more options next year will help us immeasurably. I was looking at Liverpool’s bench last night and I felt every single one would be able to contribute, if called upon. How many do we have who could reliably do the same, including the injureds? Two? Three? If that.
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At the weekend, we had two (at most). Deki and Bergwijn. It seems pretty clear that Conte only trusts about 14 or 15 of our players. We need to get to a situation where we have two players for every position, we have a lot of work to do this summer.
 
......and that is clearly the plan, better players to make the system better.

Kloppy and Pep believe in their system but have the luxury of a depth of quality players to deliver their methods and keep it purring. I'll give little credit to Pep as he has whatever toys he wants on speed dial.
Klopp gives us hope as Liverpool run as a 'normal' club, and as such it would be wise to remember it didn't happen overnight for Klopp.

Bedfordspurs said:
He has never done anything else his whole career
He believes in his system and his go to is to change the personnel not the system
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I think there is a tweak in the system that can easily happen and give us a plan B and that's to bring 3 into CM in a 352 and triangulate that however you choose given personel options and/or the in game situation. (And Conte has used this 'other' formation many times)
 
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ricky2tricky4city said:
......and that is clearly the plan, better players to make the system better.

Kloppy and Pep believe in their system but have the luxury of a depth of quality players to deliver his methods and keep it purring. I'll give little credit to Pep as he has whatever toys he wants on speed dial.
Klopp gives us hope as Liverpool run as a 'normal' club, and as such it would be wise to remember it didn't happen overnight for Klopp.



I think there is a tweak in the system that can easily happen and give us a plan B and that's to bring 3 into CM in a 352 and triangulate that however you choose given personel options and/or the in game situation. (And Conte has used this 'other' formation many times)
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Eriksen would be a good start as an option for one of the 3, alongside Skipp and Bentancur.
 
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