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Ange in or out?

Ange in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 85 73.3%

  • Out

    Votes: 31 26.7%
  • Total voters
    116
I've just slogged through all 44 pages of this thread, over the last 2 nights.
Where do you all find the time and energy to rehash these points over and over and over?

If you are thinking of making any more posts, please go back to page 1 and read it again and you will find that ALL points have already been made here!
 
Bullet said:
I've just slogged through all 44 pages of this thread, over the last 2 nights.
Where do you all find the time and energy to rehash these points over and over and over?

If you are thinking of making any more posts, please go back to page 1 and read it again and you will find that ALL points have already been made here!
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I don't like his trainers either.
 
lurker of old said:
I'm on the fence with Ange but think we should give him this season. Their preferred formations may be very different but for me he is similar to Hoddle, in that he is trying to build a Ferrari of a team, but without the budget for Ferrari quality players. So under Glenn the Ferrari was beaten by teams who were just effective Ford Transits. But a plain old Transit will always get from A to Z, a highly-tuned Ferrari ain't so reliable.
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What we need is a chef in the Ferrari* who's capable of making a lovely lamb tartare and knows it has its place on the menu, but recognises it doesn't belong as the centrepiece of every course.


* or the Transit, he ought to be comfortable handling both.

... I'll let you all have that extravagantly over-mixed metaphor for nothing.
 
Muttley said:
Official Website
Venom, Forster, Austin, Whiteman
Porro, Spence, Udogie, Reguilon
Romero, VDV, Dragusin, Davies
Bissouma, Bentancur, Sarr, Gray, Bergval
Maddison, Kulusevski
Johnson, Sonny, Werner, Odobert
Solanke, Richarlison

1st team loans: Hojbjerg, Gil, Solomon, Phillips, Veliz, Scarlett, Devine.

It's 25 players plus Mikey Moore as the 26th player we see with the 1st team.

When you look closely, you see 22 outfield players reduced to 18 for a massive part of the season because of Richi/Odobert injuries and Ange not including Spence/Reggie in his plans. Ange won't get any sympathy from me on the latter. It is his choices that has reduced his own squad. This is made even worse by naming Whiteman instead of Gunter as your 4th UEFA keeper, and having Spence or Reggie involved.

For me, the only gap in depth I see compared to other EL squads is a 5th specialist centre half. That's probably a fair call and I have a feeling the club tried to solve that in the summer. The rest is down to Ange. We've been here so many times where a manager accepts the terms of being the Spurs manager and then refuses to use the resources given to them in a given season. With this current manager, he's not only working with less but he's expecting a higher workload in 90 mins than any other PL team. He's making his squad smaller again by breaking them.

I personally think if we gave him 3 or 4 more over 21's we'd suffer from the quantity over quality issue again. We'd have to follow the Chelsea model for PL vs UEFA and we'd have dissatisfied U21's who would be sitting on their hands. I'm good with bringing in 1 or 2 quality and displacing a couple in January though.
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Two are GKs from the youth team that the club have no trust in.
One (Regulion) is completely not wanted as I think even you would agree?
Another (Richarlison) is injured far more often the. He is fit.
Three are under 21s not yet really ready for PL football (Gray, Bergval and Odobert)

having a bunch of. u21 players is great, not taking up your full squad allocation of 25 players is less so, especially when you now have an extra bundle of games to play on a Thursday night.
 
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Odobert has a full PL season under his belt as a starter - how is he not ready for PL football?

Archie Gray, full season in the Champ being one of the stars of the league - the better players in the Championship a well worn path of succeeding in making the step up to the PL and a level of player you have often said we should be looking to use to fill our squad places with - now we do it and suddenly surprise surprise it's a reason for complaint!
 
Finney Is Back said:
Two are GKs from the youth team that the club have no trust in.
One (Regulion) is completely not wanted as I think even you would agree?
Another (Richarlison) is injured far more often the. He is fit.
Three are under 21s not yet really ready for PL football (Gray, Bergval and Odobert)

having a bunch of. u21 players is great, not taking up your full squad allocation of 25 players isn’t
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billyiddo said:
Odobert has a full PL season under his belt as a starter
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Yep, I'm not understanding the lack of acknowledgment of our U21's. Pep won a treble with 6 of them in his squad of 25. I just don't see them as the problem. They are legitimate 1st teamers.

Even within that same theme, I hope that Reggie's replacement is Patrick Dorgu who is 20. I'd be all over that signing in January to give Udogie some rotation options and competition for the shirt.
 
billyiddo said:
Odobert has a full PL season under his belt as a starter - how is he not ready for PL football?

Archie Gray, full season in the Champ being one of the stars of the league - the better players in the Championship a well worn path of succeeding in making the step up to the PL and a level of player you have often said we should be looking to use to fill our squad places with - now we do it and suddenly surprise surprise it's a reason for complaint!
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I was an advocate of signing Odobert (called him before he was signed if you remember). However, I had said sign him and leave him on loan at Burnley for a season. All three of him, Gray and Bergval need a year or two more of games to be good, PL level players.

If you feel our squad is big and deep enough for 2 games a week for most of the season then fine, I just don’t think it is.
 
Muttley said:
Yep, I'm not understanding the lack of acknowledgment of our U21's. Pep won a treble with 6 of them in his squad of 25. I just don't see them as the problem. They are legitimate 1st teamers.

Even within that same theme, I hope that Reggie's replacement is Patrick Dorgu who is 20. I'd be all over that signing in January to give Udogie some rotation options and competition for the shirt.
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I think it was a squad of 28 (and one with the standard 3 keepers and not 4 like we have)
 
Finney Is Back said:
I was an advocate of signing Odobert (called him before he was signed if you remember). However, I had said sign him and leave him on loan at Burnley for a season. All three of him, Gray and Bergval need a year or two more of games to be good, PL level players.

If you feel our squad is big and deep enough for 2 games a week for most of the season then fine, I just don’t think it is.
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And Moore
 
Finney Is Back said:
I think it was a squad of 28 (and one with the standard 3 keepers and not 4 like we have)
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Nah, not when I looked.

If you go to Wikipedia and look at the playing time of each player you see that the concentration of pitch time was about most of the seniors plus Lewis and Palmer. You'll also see minimal playing time for Laporte and Phillips to counter that. I think it was Rodri who had the most playing time from memory.

It really was achieved with a small squad of seniors, but some very smart rotation from Pep to keep his guys fresh. He also showed a lot of trust in guys like Lewis who played in some key CL games.

The difference is obviously the quality of the core 18. We're not at the stage yet where we don't weaken the team when we replace a first teamer. It is improving though. That's why we have to press on and keep buying guys like Dorgu. Let's worry about keeping Udogie and Dorgu happy when we have both of them on our books. As we're finding with Dragusin, there's plenty of playing time available.
 
Bullet said:
I've just slogged through all 44 pages of this thread, over the last 2 nights.
Where do you all find the time and energy to rehash these points over and over and over?

If you are thinking of making any more posts, please go back to page 1 and read it again and you will find that ALL points have already been made here!
Click to expand...
It's obviously a topic people have strong opinions on. And not much will change opinions other than results and performances over time either improving or staying either poor or inconsistent.
 
Muttley said:
Nah, not when I looked.

If you go to Wikipedia and look at the playing time of each player you see that the concentration of pitch time was about most of the seniors plus Lewis and Palmer. You'll also see minimal playing time for Laporte and Phillips to counter that. I think it was Rodri who had the most playing time from memory.

It really was achieved with a small squad of seniors, but some very smart rotation from Pep to keep his guys fresh. He also showed a lot of trust in guys like Lewis who played in some key CL games.

The difference is obviously the quality of the core 18. We're not at the stage yet where we don't weaken the team when we replace a first teamer. It is improving though. That's why we have to press on and keep buying guys like Dorgu. Let's worry about keeping Udogie and Dorgu happy when we have both of them on our books. As we're finding with Dragusin, there's plenty of playing time available.
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Good points mate: I agree that we need more quality. I am also an advocate of our policy to sign young players. I don’t think we can afford to buy established players so probably need to bring in the odd one of those (like Solanke) and supplement with 18-21 year olds. Doing that though does mean being patient while the team develops:

This team will be better next season as many of our youngsters have a years more experience, the same will then be true the season after if our buying policy continues in the same way.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Good points mate: I agree that we need more quality. I am also an advocate of our policy to sign young players. I don’t think we can afford to buy established players so probably need to bring in the odd one of those (like Solanke) and supplement with 18-21 year olds. Doing that though does mean being patient while the team develops:

This team will be better next season as many of our youngsters have a years more experience, the same will then be true the season after if our buying policy continues in the same way.
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And there is clearly a great middle ground between buying a 17/18 year old and a 27/28 year old. That's what we've done with Romero, VDV, Porro, Johnson, Kulu, Bents etc. Some of our better buys have been in that 21-25 age range. That is where we should go next in my opinion. No problem with adding more U21's as well but it is a lesser priority now.
 
Kompakted said:
Nails it for me:

www.football365.com

Postecoglou sack inevitable as 'exciting' Spurs are actually exhausting

Ultimately, Spurs are only really fun for everyone else. If you support them it’s exhausting rather than exciting because it's all going nowhere.
www.football365.com www.football365.com
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I’m sorry but that is just a ridiculously anti-Spurs article. I haven’t really read 365 for a few years but the journalism was always pretty good as I remember it. Not saying there aren’t some accuracies in there but the tone and some of the language should rile every Sours fan.
The opening to the last para “Southampton away up next for these absolute clowns,” is a prime example.
 
parklane1 said:
Its madness, and its the sociaty we live in i guess, i want it and i want it now.
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To be fair some of those on here at least who are more towards the Ange out side seem to be so because they believe his approach tactically and his "stubbornness" and lack of flexibility means that he just won't be successful for us or at this level.

It's not an opinion I agree with, but I can understand why someone holding that opinion would be more Ange out, also without that being a sign of larger societal issues. (Not denying those issues also exist).
 
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