glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
I think it can both be true that our ownership haven't got a clue or have little ambition on the football side of things and that the manager we have hired isn't good enough
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Ange in or out?
- Thread starter Yiddo
- Start date
I think it can both be true that our ownership haven't got a clue or have little ambition on the football side of things and that the manager we have hired isn't good enough
Yes, they truly are the benchmark of a well run club.
Maybe try following the discussion if you're gonna jump in champ.
We were debating wether we had depth or not. Having injuries impact your depth doesn't mean you do not have depth.
Seems a comparable level of depth to me.
It always makes me laugh how our fans like to portray Chelsea as a basket case club, when they consistently invest in both personnel and managers and deliver in terms of success - meanwhile we also flit from manager to manager, whilst making lower quality investments and winning nothing.
But I'm sure Chelsea fans are often caught casting envious eyes over here wishing it was announced Chelsea were the greenest football club in the league (four years running!) and having an outstanding turnover to wages ratio.....
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Ange has a squad of imo around 19 players Ange "trusts" - trusts enough to start in the PL.
Vicario, Forster, Porro, Romero, Dragusin, VdV, Davies, Udogie, Bissouma, Bentancur, Sarr, Maddison, Kulusevski, Johnson, Odobert, Solanke, Richarlison, Son, Werner.
We then have around 5 players that Ange doesn't quite trust as much. Or perhaps players he's close to trusting to that kind of level, but not quite there yet.
Spence, Gray, Bergvall, Moore, Lankshear.
2-3 players missing and we're probably mostly going to be fine. And still have good enough options on the bench, some ability to rotate. But recently we've had too many players missing at the same time to meaningfully rotate well, have suffered through fatigue and some lack of quality as a result of starters missing (though no one individual squad player has been bad as such).
The plan must be to get to 23-25 players Ange (or whoever is in charge trusts sufficiently). Until such a time injury issues like we've had now, combined with fixture congestion, will always be really difficult to deal with.
We're moving in that direction, but through a more medium term plan focusing on younger players. I'm fine with that and hope Ange gets the time to get there.
Vicario, Forster, Porro, Romero, Dragusin, VdV, Davies, Udogie, Bissouma, Bentancur, Sarr, Maddison, Kulusevski, Johnson, Odobert, Solanke, Richarlison, Son, Werner.
We then have around 5 players that Ange doesn't quite trust as much. Or perhaps players he's close to trusting to that kind of level, but not quite there yet.
Spence, Gray, Bergvall, Moore, Lankshear.
2-3 players missing and we're probably mostly going to be fine. And still have good enough options on the bench, some ability to rotate. But recently we've had too many players missing at the same time to meaningfully rotate well, have suffered through fatigue and some lack of quality as a result of starters missing (though no one individual squad player has been bad as such).
The plan must be to get to 23-25 players Ange (or whoever is in charge trusts sufficiently). Until such a time injury issues like we've had now, combined with fixture congestion, will always be really difficult to deal with.
We're moving in that direction, but through a more medium term plan focusing on younger players. I'm fine with that and hope Ange gets the time to get there.
No way get rid of him yet but there's a big decision to be made in the summer, we can't keep playing in the same way expecting things to change. It's obvious the defence isn't up to scratch, whether that's the players, tactics or both is up for debate but it needs to change. Hard to believe on his way home he doesn't reflect that the defence isn't cutting it, maybe he's just stubborn or has absolute conviction in his plan - I don't know.
The only other manager who attempted this style is Pep who has probably spent close to a billion plus he's just a better coach and City are actually less gung ho then us and were pretty well organised in the last few seasons.
If thing don't change I wouldn't be surprised to see him go in the summer.
The only other manager who attempted this style is Pep who has probably spent close to a billion plus he's just a better coach and City are actually less gung ho then us and were pretty well organised in the last few seasons.
If thing don't change I wouldn't be surprised to see him go in the summer.
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
Personally, i think our January activity (or lack of) will tell us a lot...
Mr Gogolak
Jason Dozzell
On a more serious note, saying injuries are just 'bad luck' or will 'even out' over the course of a season is, in my opinion, a huge mistake. They don't and while there are many factors (number of games, intensity of play, players' specific injury records, preparation...), if we can't find a way to keep the number of injuries down, nobody will be able to get anything out of that squad.
City never recovered from losing Rodri. We're missing something like 8 or 9 players at the moment. The only thing I disagree on with most people is that it's not tough luck. Whoever decided to play Romero yesterday, for instance, made a mistake. I read that he 'trained well' so either the training is different from match intensity (which is likely) or they misread his training performances.
For me, whoever makes these mistakes has to go - whether it's Postecoglou or the coaches or a combination of both, I don't know but it's getting out of hand.
City never recovered from losing Rodri. We're missing something like 8 or 9 players at the moment. The only thing I disagree on with most people is that it's not tough luck. Whoever decided to play Romero yesterday, for instance, made a mistake. I read that he 'trained well' so either the training is different from match intensity (which is likely) or they misread his training performances.
For me, whoever makes these mistakes has to go - whether it's Postecoglou or the coaches or a combination of both, I don't know but it's getting out of hand.
I would include Odobert in the youngsters. So 6 is probably a bit too many when you know you are competing in an expended form/hard fought European comp and also want to have a good go at the domestic trophies.
Knowing we had Moore and Lankshear I probably would have gone for two more youngsters max and then two more experienced players.
Someone like Neto and another strong CM or a young fit striker like Delap. (I’ll let others argue over those names)
Thats literally the difference now, we’re turning to the youth + Werner etc where we could be rotating to 2 more with quality, even with these injuries.
Ironically - we’re now talking about adding that quality in January so the chosen strategy we took has to be seen as a mistake.
I wasn't referring to just Ange in or out, ENIC have been the problem for a long time, when you'd rather invest in off-field activities rather than paying an extra 5m or 10m for a player that improves your team or you sack a manager day's before a cup final then if is clear it's not the players that are the problem.
The club has underfunded transfers for as long as I can remember and by doing so have damaged the club.
Grays_1890
Barry Daines
In honesty I am happy with the buys for the future but that means that the plan must be for a long term leadership off the pitch to cultivate that and grow into their mould. If we are talking about ready now and depth to that nature along the lines of the clubs we aspire to be (hence judging the manager against them) then we are nowhere near them and or investing in talent that can hit the ground running today.
It makes no sense to me to buy 5/6 players for the future but for them to sit in the first team unless you are going to give the manager time to help them grow and also accept that young players are inconsistent
SpurMeUp
Gary Stevens
Kinda does, no! In real terms.
Isn't your premise that Ange has a better squad? Quite simply: now, with the injuries we have, he doesn't. Yet you are not wanting to factor that in, and want him gone, on the basis of the squad he has available now.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Its greenest sports club in the country. None of this football or league low ambitions thank you!
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
We're still bound by needing to focus on club trained players though. Particularly as EL is our best course to europe
Mikey10
Pedro Mendes
18 months is a fair amount of time to be practising anything, especially if those who have practised frequently look like they don’t know what they’re really supposed to be doing.
Mikey10
Pedro Mendes
They can mock all they want, but they don't have their own micro-brewery or toy F1 track.
Finney Is Back
Andy Thompson
It certainly seems so now that he has been in place for almost 5 years. It didn't look particularly great for the first 2 to 2 and half years of his tenure though did it?
Mr Gogolak
Jason Dozzell
To be fair, I remember reading the same things when Conte was the manager. I'd say it was different under Mourinho and Pochettino: players knew what they were supposed to be doing but some of them were clearly unable/unwilling to carry the instructions they were given. Being a manager is a tough job...
Oddly enough, these first 10 games under Postecoglou are both a saving grace and a curse: they prove it could work but they also very much give the impression that we're not heading in the right direction.
i was responding to a post from Grays that stated we had a paper thin squad, regarding squad building - I disagreed with that, there was no comment or discussion being had around injuries or the knock on effect they have had to our season.