Ange in or out?

[Baleforce]

They also built in stages
They also got rid of players the coach didn’t want… even after giving them new contracts

Arteta is seemingly a better manager than Ange too.

It will be sacrilege on here, but I love some of the things they do, the time wasting and water/tactics breaks, the way they disrupt at corners.

It’s smart coaching, we need way more of that.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

IIt can be true that both the strategy is correct and the manager is doing a bad job.

100%
Then you change the manager

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Arteta is seemingly a better manager than Ange too.

It will be sacrilege on here, but I love some of the things they do, the time wasting and water/tactics breaks, the way they disrupt at corners.

It’s smart coaching, we need way more of that.

I’ve yet to see anything that Artetas has done that has made me think wow
Other than keep his job
And maybe surround himself with better coaches (set piece coach for sure)
I do agree the way they take form outs is smart but also bad refereeing… it’s very Sunday league

 

[glorygloryeze]

AVB - in his first season finished lower than Redknapp did the previous season. Then was lower again the second season when sacked.

Another manager who asked for certain players, didn't get them and then was sacked being given no time.

Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat.....

And yes I was (more than) happy to see AVB sacked. In season one he had World class Gareth Bale'ing (do you see what I did there! ) him out of trouble. In season two we no longer had that world class player and the rest of the tactics were becoming exposed. But the reason I waned him gone is because his Spurs team were playing some of the most boring football I've had to sit through. It was sleep inducing stuff.

Right then, so you can't really complain about anyone else wanting Ange gone now and say "it's too early" etc...

I agree with your general observations about how we operate though

 

[Baleforce]

I’ve yet to see anything that Artetas has done that has made me think wow
Other than keep his job
And maybe surround himself with better coaches (set piece coach for sure)
I do agree the way they take form outs is smart but also bad refereeing… it’s very Sunday league

They get away with it, it works for them, so they hammer it.

Which is delightful pragmatism.

 

[Grays_1890]

Well, sticking to just defenders we have signed Dragusin, Romero & Udogie from Serie A, Van der Ven from the Bundesliga and Porro from Portugal - not sure I'm seeing your point

I wasn't talking about where they come from so not sure where thats coming from, I am talking about them adding depth to their squad. They literally have 2 is not 3 for every position in defence.

The overall point I was making is Arteta was losing games hand over fist (a response to the games lost stats) but was backed and backed with players and time and its be proven the correct route.

As a fan base we seem to be above that kind of joined up thinking though

 

[Bedfordspurs]

They get away with it, it works for them, so they hammer it.

Which is delightful pragmatism.

They do
And small margins make a difference
But I guess after 5 years and over half a £B they have to win the title or sack him now

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I wasn't talking about where they come from so not sure where thats coming from, I am talking about them adding depth to their squad. They literally have 2 is not 3 for every position in defence.

The overall point I was making is Arteta was losing games hand over fist (a response to the games lost stats) but was backed and backed with players and time and its be proven the correct route.

As a fan base we seem to be above that kind of joined up thinking though

They lost one player and crumbled though

 

[Grays_1890]

They lost one player and crumbled though

Which in itself is another defence of Ange, we have nowhere near the depth and have lost more players

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Which in itself is another defence of Ange, we have nowhere near the depth and have lost more players

And we’re crumbling TBF
But again… it all takes time and pain
Neither thing that fans want

 

[90291Spur]

They won't.
He needs elite upgrades in couple of positions, he needs the youths purchased this year to have this season to develop (Gray and Bergvall will be so much stronger next season) and he needs the injuries to level out. This is going to take another half a season to a season. I think we could do well in a cup (still in three of them as of now). I do not think we will make CL next season. But I think the platform of talent could well blossom.

The single biggest issue will be if the players stop believing. As of now, I am not seeing that.

Ange needs to manage better too. He can’t use injuries and youth as an excuse for recklessly playing the game regardless of game state. There is a middle ground between high line high press high risk attack and a conte style low block. Other teams do it. And they have success. We don’t.

 

[Baleforce]

They do
And small margins make a difference
But I guess after 5 years and over half a £B they have to win the title or sack him now

If he keeps getting them CL I’d say that would be enough.

 

[Mrs Vert]

League and cup?

I think just league

 

[harr1984]

It can be true that both the strategy is correct and the manager is doing a bad job.

The strategy is/was meant to be a long term one for the very reason we are seeing at the moment - a squad thin on real quality of which many are players with potential, not for the right now....

 

[Grays_1890]

And we’re crumbling TBF
But again… it all takes time and pain
Neither thing that fans want

There is no secret to the success stories (I have what Arteta is doing as good work, grudgingly) its time + money.

Given we have not one anything of real note in 30+ years I wonder what magic people think we are likely to summon that makes us different and special

 

[Finney Is Back]

Chelsea have taken a never before seen approach to squad building these last few years - it is not a comparison with any merit.

If we want to compare squads then let's do so with clubs who we are actually looking to compete with at this stage of our rebuild - we're year 2 of the Ange rebuild, I think most reasonable people would expect us to be atound 5th-7th in the table and pushing for top 4 if things went ahead of schedule. Competing with the likes of Villa & Saudi Sportswashing Machine

In which case surely there should be far less crying when Chelsea, with a much bigger, better - and better rested - squad, beat us - no?

Villa are also playing in Europe so I'd say they are a decent comparison.
Their options are: Watkins, Duran, Rogers, Bailey, Philogene, Buendia, Ramsey (I won't list their youth options as well)
Their manager has been in place for 8 months longer than Postecoglou.
They are 5 points ahead of us in the league at present. I suspect the two clubs will be reasonably close to each other in the league at the end of the season as they were last season.

 

[Mr Gogolak]

How many times are we going to have to go through the same tiresome debate with managers before it's realised the real issues lie elsewhere? You have to be seriously deluded to think we are going to get rid of Ange and not be back here in a year-18 months time debating whether we should or shouldn't give the new manager more time after he too falls short of expectations.

I'm seriously deluded!

 

[Finney Is Back]

Well, sticking to just defenders we have signed Dragusin, Romero & Udogie from Serie A, Van der Ven from the Bundesliga and Porro from Portugal - not sure I'm seeing your point

I think only two of those were signed under Postecoglou.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Right then, so you can't really complain about anyone else wanting Ange gone now and say "it's too early" etc...

I agree with your general observations about how we operate though

Or perhaps I have learnt the error of my ways and every year that passes I can see more and more clearly that the problem at this football club is clearly not the managers that we happen to so regularly appoint, ruin and then fire?

 

[SpurMeUp]

Richarlson and then Lankshere for CF options behind Solonke before considering other players who can and have played there throughout their career - that's good depth.

LW/F - Son/Odobert/Werner/Moore

RW/F - Johnson/Kulusevski/Odobert/Moore(?)

We may be lacking some high end quality but we have depth up front. Can't be arsed to go through the whole squad now but bar GK or LB we have at least a good quality backup up player to call on. Our injury numbers are high though so we've been left short as a result

This is all fine, apart from your complete blindness of these players actually being available.