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Ange in or out?

Ange in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 83 76.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 25 23.1%
  • Total voters
    108
Bedfordspurs said:
I think Ange rates his chances over time
I also think he will be given time despite our club history
I’m convinced other managers would love to join us and we will see that when Ange goes
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I agree with your first point. Not sure I agree with the second. Managers do not get time at this club.
I disagree with your third point. I don't think we are particularly attractive to managers who already have a reasonable name in the game. You are far more likely to ruin your stock than enhance it at Spurs because you will not be given what you want/need in terms of signings and neither will you be given the luxury of time by the chairman (and a small but disproportionately vociferous bunch of knee-jerker fans)
 
glorygloryeze said:
What about Conte? Are you going to use him as an example instead?
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I think he merely proves my point - no? A new manager bounce and then gets binned about 16 months later after becoming fed up with the club breaking promises.

Remember that we also no longer have a world class player to build a team around.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I think Ange rates his chances over time
I also think he will be given time despite our club history
I’m convinced other managers would love to join us and we will see that when Ange goes
Click to expand...
To the first point its a style of football that takes time and also players to get there, its much easier to go two banks of 8 and just have players to work hard, this is a longer term progress which requires players with intelligence and skill to make it happen, despite the nay saying we have seen the higher ceiling of football that this style brings so we know its possible. Thats why like you I think it means time and better players
 
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A couple of points:

If Ange wants to play his style, why not play the first half, go grab your goals and then manage the game to play counter attacking football. We certainly have most of the components to play this way. In other words Anges in game management is poor, very poor. His defence is that our football got us two up so what’s the problem? Jeez honestly.

Ange has been backed more so than conte and Mourinho financially but again the money spent is not spent very well. I get that we need to bring in young blood before their stock increases, but surely these young players need players now to show them the way to play and win; not thrown into cup competitions in wholesale changes that usually result in poor performances and results.

Levy has polarised our fan base, like him or loathe him but he’s been here long enough and perhaps running the club in a new lens may fresher the place up. Any other business changes their chairmen if success doesn’t mean results. It’s gone stale under him and that’s just a fact. Even if we are spending more we are still not really pushing the boat out to fully back the manager. Like I said earlier we need a manager to back the transfer strategy not expose it.

Our stadium has resulted in a bigger pot to spend but what is the point if we are still not going for elite players? We are following the same strategy as before in the market but wasting more of the same.

I don’t get why Ange is getting so much support for the sake of not getting a new manager in to repeat the cycle… surely me want a manager who can manage this team and build on it. I have seen none of this under Ange, he is out of his depth. I am all for giving a manager a chance to succeed and even backed the likes of Mourinho and Conte but fans were quickly wanting to see the backs of them at the first possible chance.

It’s not by design that both Mourinho and conte have succeeded everywhere they have been but at spurs.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I think he merely proves my point - no? A new manager bounce and then gets binned about 16 months later after becoming fed up with the club breaking promises.

Remember that we also no longer have a world class player to build a team around.
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I agree with the general principle, but i'm sure you wouldn't apply the same to AVB, no?
IIR you were more than happy he was binned after about 16 months too, yes?

Both AVB and Conte showed a lot more acumen than Ange has, regardless of how "boring" any of their play is or isn't...
 
billyiddo said:
That's not a good faith argument and you should be smart enough to know it so don't waste mine and your time.
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It's not a good faith argument to compare our options directly with the club who have just beaten us and caused the usual bunch of knee-jerkers on here to cry 'we must sack the manager'?

Not a good faith argument to compare our options directly to another club of a similar (I think actually lower) income level who are playing both PL and European competition (but a lower level of European competition so can rest more players)?

What is a good faith argument in your book then?
 
glorygloryeze said:
I agree with the general principle, but i'm sure you wouldn't apply the same to AVB, no?
IIR you were more than happy he was binned after about 16 months too, yes?

Both AVB and Conte showed a lot more acumen than Ange has, regardless of how "boring" any of their play is or isn't...
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AVB - in his first season finished lower than Redknapp did the previous season. Then was lower again the second season when sacked.

Another manager who asked for certain players, didn't get them and then was sacked being given no time.

Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat.....

And yes I was (more than) happy to see AVB sacked. In season one he had World class Gareth Bale'ing (do you see what I did there! ;) ) him out of trouble. In season two we no longer had that world class player and the rest of the tactics were becoming exposed. But the reason I waned him gone is because his Spurs team were playing some of the most boring football I've had to sit through. It was sleep inducing stuff.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I agree with your first point. Not sure I agree with the second. Managers do not get time at this club.
I disagree with your third point. I don't think we are particularly attractive to managers who already have a reasonable name in the game. You are far more likely to ruin your stock than enhance it at Spurs because you will not be given what you want/need in terms of signings and neither will you be given the luxury of time by the chairman (and a small but disproportionately vociferous bunch of knee-jerker fans)
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We will see at some point
It’s just an opinion of mine that I think things have changed
I could be wrong of course
 
Grays_1890 said:
To the first point its a style of football that takes time and also players to get there, its much easier to go two banks of 8 and just have players to work hard, this is a longer term progress which requires players with intelligence and skill to make it happen, despite the nay saying we have seen the higher ceiling of football that this style brings so we know its possible. Thats why like you I think it means time and better players
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Could just buy big blokes and play for set pieces after 5 years
 
Finney Is Back said:
It's not a good faith argument to compare our options directly with the club who have just beaten us and caused the usual bunch of knee-jerkers on here to cry 'we must sack the manager'?

Not a good faith argument to compare our options directly to another club of a similar (I think actually lower) income level who are playing both PL and European competition (but a lower level of European competition so can rest more players)?

What is a good faith argument in your book then?
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Chelsea have taken a never before seen approach to squad building these last few years - it is not a comparison with any merit.

If we want to compare squads then let's do so with clubs who we are actually looking to compete with at this stage of our rebuild - we're year 2 of the Ange rebuild, I think most reasonable people would expect us to be atound 5th-7th in the table and pushing for top 4 if things went ahead of schedule. Competing with the likes of Villa & Saudi Sportswashing Machine
 
Finney Is Back said:
I've not seen anything from any manager since Pochettino showing tactical acumen to get us to where we want to be..... and do you know why? Because this damn club will not give anyone the time to actually go through a coherent rebuild and reap the benefits.

We have a minority of vociferous knee-jerkers that start crying as soon as the going gets tough. We'll forever go through the cycle of new manager bounce and then sacked 6 to 16 months later.
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How many times are we going to have to go through the same tiresome debate with managers before it's realised the real issues lie elsewhere? You have to be seriously deluded to think we are going to get rid of Ange and not be back here in a year-18 months time debating whether we should or shouldn't give the new manager more time after he too falls short of expectations.

I've been ok with Levy I think he's done a good job overall with the brand etc but he's made mistakes and the constant mixed direction of this club with recruitment and managers has been a big blot. His message when Conte was sacked was acknowledgement of such mistakes and wanted to get us back to playing an attacking brand of football with a long term strategy in investment of youth. He has and can fulfill much of this with Ange, the big question is the trophies part but when the investment in the squad is for potential over ready made quality (which I'm fine with for a club with our budget) then it's not going to go swimmingly from start to finish, Levy must have known this. The likes of Odobert, Bergvall, Gray, Moore are going to require another couple of seasons growth and how many of our 'established' players can you rely on for consistent performances? It's going to take a few more windows to sort out both the quality and squad depth And if instead of looking to ride out the bumps and be strong with the investment he made in Ange and he again chooses to get rid of the manager then I will be in the Levy out camp as I'm bored of seeing the same story.....
 
Grays_1890 said:
Arsenal lost 26 in the first two seasons under Arteta (more if you include the season before). Now they are adding depth like Timber and Califiori (spelling terrible I know) which goes to tell you whats needed for teams to improve (in part).
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2 young defenders from middling teams on the continent? These are the level of players we are in the market for
 
Grays_1890 said:
Arsenal lost 26 in the first two seasons under Arteta (more if you include the season before). Now they are adding depth like Timber and Califiori (spelling terrible I know) which goes to tell you whats needed for teams to improve (in part).
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An but it wasn’t Artetas team
It was when they won the cup
But it wasn’t either side of it
 
harr1984 said:
How many times are we going to have to go through the same tiresome debate with managers before it's realised the real issues lie elsewhere? You have to be seriously deluded to think we are going to get rid of Ange and not be back here in a year-18 months time debating whether we should or shouldn't give the new manager more time after he too falls short of expectations.

I've been ok with Levy I think he's done a good job overall with the brand etc but he's made mistakes and the constant mixed direction of this club with recruitment and managers has been a big blot. His message when Conte was sacked was acknowledgement of such mistakes and wanted to get us back to playing an attacking brand of football with a long term strategy in investment of youth. He has and can fulfill much of this with Ange, the big question is the trophies part but when the investment in the squad is for potential over ready made quality (which I'm fine with for a club with our budget) then it's not going to go swimmingly from start to finish, Levy must have known this. The likes of Odobert, Bergvall, Gray, Moore are going to require another couple of seasons growth and how many of our 'established' players can you rely on for consistent performances? It's going to take a few more windows to sort out both the quality and squad depth And if instead of looking to ride out the bumps and be strong with the investment he made in Ange and he again chooses to get rid of the manager then I will be in the Levy out camp as I'm bored of seeing the same story.....
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It can be true that both the strategy is correct and the manager is doing a bad job.
 
Grays_1890 said:
In the market for versus players they have on the books though which is why they are doing better than us (in part)
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Well, sticking to just defenders we have signed Dragusin, Romero & Udogie from Serie A, Van der Ven from the Bundesliga and Porro from Portugal - not sure I'm seeing your point
 
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