Ange in or out?

[Benny_Lad]

My son takes the view that 2 league wins will guarantee not getting relegated and we should go all out to win Europa League. It's an alien thought for me as I believe we should be trying to win every game we play however unlikely that is. I've never been a fan of playing weak teams or as the experts term "rotation" if players are carrying an injury or need a rest that's a different matter. With a larger squad to pick from thier is some merit in the idea.

I think we should try to win every game and build momentum for the EL games, and there should also be some competition for places in the EL teams as we go deeper and deeper.

I also think we should manage minutes a little more cautiously with a slight bias towards the EL.

 

[billyiddo]

If we have players that need their minutes managed then the focus around the Europa ties should be to ensure we can field our strongest XI in those matches with league games being the games where the players are rotated out/subbed early/whatever.

One silver lining to having a poor domestic season is that we can give Europe our full focus - potentially this gives us our best opportunity to win the Europa compared to our previous seasons in it when qualifying for the CL was probably a higher priority at the time.

 

[Muttley]

If we have players that need their minutes managed then the focus around the Europa ties should be to ensure we can field our strongest XI in those matches with league games being the games where the players are rotated out/subbed early/whatever.

One silver lining to having a poor domestic season is that we can give Europe our full focus - potentially this gives us our best opportunity to win the Europa compared to our previous seasons in it when qualifying for the CL was probably a higher priority at the time.

Just not sure what our strongest eleven is at this point.

 

[billyiddo]

Just not sure what our strongest eleven is at this point.

No, and we're probably/possibly moving to a point where we have a core of first choice players and then a lot of interchangeable options for other positions. What I mean is that Ange should be looking at any upcoming Europa game and the team he wants to field in it and then work back from that wrt the line ups in the surrounding league games.

 

[harr1984]

Just not sure what our strongest eleven is at this point.

In a positive way for the most part though. Danso for me is a better defender than VDV but of course VDV has attributes on the ball plus his pace that would make him the likely first choice. Spence is pushing really hard to be first choice for either LB or RB spot with Udogie back, its a tough one. CMs I think is a bit of a problem area but its great to see the emergence of Bergvall and probably have Bentancur in there too. Conundrum around Maddison/Kulu aswell but again good choices to have. The forward line I'd go with Odobert/Solanke/Johnson if everyone is fit. But of course there are various other options there too....

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Just not sure what our strongest eleven is at this point.

I think we will not have a full squad till late March, fortunately we have a week free from a game before the AK match.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Just not sure what our strongest eleven is at this point.

I don’t think anyone knows. Particularly when it comes to the 3 in midfield.

 

[Muttley]

In a positive way for the most part though. Danso for me is a better defender than VDV but of course VDV has attributes on the ball plus his pace that would make him the likely first choice. Spence is pushing really hard to be first choice for either LB or RB spot with Udogie back, its a tough one. CMs I think is a bit of a problem area but its great to see the emergence of Bergvall and probably have Bentancur in there too. Conundrum around Maddison/Kulu aswell but again good choices to have. The forward line I'd go with Odobert/Solanke/Johnson if everyone is fit. But of course there are various other options there too....

Totally, there isn't such a big gap between squad players so the best eleven debate is always a rich and enjoyable one.

I don't think midfield is a problem at all. We have 7 very credible midfielders for 3 positions - Bents, Biss, Gray, Bergval, Sarr, Kulu and Madds. The problem becomes when they are being asked to do unnatural acts by the manager. Even then, we can keep an intensity going for the entire match by using the bench.

Without really seeing too much of Gray in midfield, I would have to separate the Bents, Bergval, Kulu trio from the Bissouma, Sarr, Madds one. When I think back to Ange's great start to his time at Spurs it was the second trio that played so well together. Perhaps that can be the league trio whilst the first trio gets first stab at the EL.

I have a feeling that the first hurdle might be to manage the first leg without Solanks or Richi. I hope not.

 

[Pandy]

Totally, there isn't such a big gap between squad players so the best eleven debate is always a rich and enjoyable one.

I don't think midfield is a problem at all. We have 7 very credible midfielders for 3 positions - Bents, Biss, Gray, Bergval, Sarr, Kulu and Madds. The problem becomes when they are being asked to do unnatural acts by the manager. Even then, we can keep an intensity going for the entire match by using the bench.

Without really seeing too much of Gray in midfield, I would have to separate the Bents, Bergval, Kulu trio from the Bissouma, Sarr, Madds one. When I think back to Ange's great start to his time at Spurs it was the second trio that played so well together. Perhaps that can be the league trio whilst the first trio gets first stab at the EL.

I have a feeling that the first hurdle might be to manage the first leg without Solanks or Richi. I hope not.

Finally understand why they call them "Terror Tuesdays"

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

Of course the pressure is on him full-stop now, frankly I'd say until he is no longer with us.

Of course there need to be improvements in performances. I don't think anyone (least of all him or the players) would deny it. But when the improvements we're seeing are either not being acknowledged or are only getting negligible notice versus the same complaints, well, it's an issue for me.
Still, unimportant really...

The improvements are more down to first team (better quality) players returning, Danso bringing much needed composure and pace at the back and the fixture list easing. When I see improved consistency with a relatively fit squad and a better ability to juggle multiple demands then I will acknowledge that things are improving under Ange. I.e. let's see if he can sustain something like a 70% win rate and a less than 10% loss rate between now and the end of the season.

 

[JerusalemMan]

The improvements are more down to first team (better quality) players returning, Danso bringing much needed composure and pace at the back and the fixture list easing. When I see improved consistency with a relatively fit squad and a better ability to juggle multiple demands then I will acknowledge that things are improving under Ange. I.e. let's see if he can sustain something like a 70% win rate and a less than 10% loss rate between now and the end of the season.

Those first team players and Danso will be ones chosen and trained by Ange and better able to implement his style of play, don't you think? Hence the improvements.

 

[Muttley]

Those first team players and Danso will be ones chosen and trained by Ange and better able to implement his style of play, don't you think? Hence the improvements.

More subtle than that. After 20 months in charge you would hope that all the squad players that have been alongside Ange get his system by now. Even the ones that joined in the summer should. The 2 recent outfield signings might be the exception.

The subtle piece is about the energy levels of the players in the last couple of weeks and having a fully stocked bench so you can keep the system going for 90 mins. Ange's system if very demanding and sometimes requires all 16 players to make it work. When you're bringing on Porro, Biss, Odo and Sarr then you know you're in a good place.

Even Scarlett might argue that he should have started over Tel.

 

[thfcsteff]

I believe that's why they're called opinions in the first place and not 'facts' or 'truths'. You didn't ask for it but in my opinion, this is one of the biggest problems of contemporary societies: we (collectively) can no longer entertain the idea that people think differently or have a different set of values. People who want him out don't necessarily have a grudge against Postecoglou, just like those who want him to keep his job aren't blabbering idiots who want to run the club into the ground just because they're afraid of change.
I'm left scratching my head (just like the great man) that after ten years of 'diversity' being such a huge topic, people still want to squash differing opinions (not saying that's your case, of course - it's just a generic rant/rambling).

Agreed mate.

You'll have seen me mention dialectics on here before. They're important.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

Those first team players and Danso will be ones chosen and trained by Ange and better able to implement his style of play, don't you think? Hence the improvements.

Maybe, all I'm saying is that I've been consistent in my doubt about Postecoglu's credentials and ability to deliver the consistency of results we would like to see and so it's going to take more than an uptick in form coinciding with the injury crisis easing for me to come on here and start praising Postecoglu. If he can consistently maintain the uptick in form till the end of the season then i will be the first to admit he deserves a shot at the next season and further backing in the summer window. I'm a spurs fan at the end of the day so I'd be delighted to be proved wrong with Ange. If Ange is successful then so are Spurs at the end of the day.

 

[Raziel]

My son takes the view that 2 league wins will guarantee not getting relegated and we should go all out to win Europa League. It's an alien thought for me as I believe we should be trying to win every game we play however unlikely that is. I've never been a fan of playing weak teams or as the experts term "rotation" if players are carrying an injury or need a rest that's a different matter. With a larger squad to pick from thier is some merit in the idea.

Outside of a consistency we have never shown under Ange, the league is functionally dead.

Win Europa and finish 12th is a good season (trophy and back in CL)

Don't win Europa and finish 9th is a fudging disaster

It's actually a unique position for us in probably 2 decades, your son is correct, the cup should 100% be our priority from here on in.

 

[JerusalemMan]

Maybe, all I'm saying is that I've been consistent in my doubt about Postecoglu's credentials and ability to deliver the consistency of results we would like to see and so it's going to take more than an uptick in form coinciding with the injury crisis easing for me to come on here and start praising Postecoglu. If he can consistently maintain the uptick in form till the end of the season then i will be the first to admit he deserves a shot at the next season and further backing in the summer window. I'm a spurs fan at the end of the day so I'd be delighted to be proved wrong with Ange. If Ange is successful then so are Spurs at the end of the day.

Fair enough.

 

[Muttley]

Outside of a consistency we have never shown under Ange, the league is functionally dead.

Win Europa and finish 12th is a good season (trophy and back in CL)

Don't win Europa and finish 9th is a fudging disaster

It's actually a unique position for us in probably 2 decades, your son is correct, the cup should 100% be our priority from here on in.

Right now we're 7 points from 9th, and 9-11 points from the teams in 4th to 8th with 12 games left.

Even with the UEFA coefficient looking like we may get 5 CL places, is it a step too far to sneak a ECL or EL place?

Next 3 games are City, B'mouth, Fulham. All above us. Can we rein them back in?

I think you're probably right, but there is always part of you that thinks we can get back to where we rightly belong. There are tons of injuries around as well impacting the other teams.

 

[DaveT316]

Right now we're 7 points from 9th, and 9-11 points from the teams in 4th to 8th with 12 games left.

Even with the UEFA coefficient looking like we may get 5 CL places, is it a step too far to sneak a ECL or EL place?

Next 3 games are City, B'mouth, Fulham. All above us. Can we rein them back in?

I think you're probably right, but there is always part of you that thinks we can get back to where we rightly belong. There are tons of injuries around as well impacting the other teams.

My, albeit non-data-led intuition, says we’ve made about 1 pt back each week we’ve won recently on those in 4th at the beginning of each match week.

So, if we were to win every game from now until the end of the season, we could do it. It’s highly unlikely though.

 

[Robspur12]

I am not sure anyone would not want us to win the EL who ever is in charge. That would be a tremendous achievement and it's a no brainer that Ange should then get more time.

If we don't win the EL, the decision is more problematic for me. Ange, IMHO, hasn't shown yet that he can win the big games and that's really important for this team's development. Aside from City, (and they of course are having a poor season by their standards) and Villa, we have lost to every other team in the top 10. Not even drawn - lost. It's an awful record. Villa were the outlier result IMHO in that they were doing reasonably well when we beat them.

If Ange can achieve results in games which we might not be expected to win showing he can manage those big games then he should be given more time even if he doesn't win the EL.

 

[Baleforce]

I am not sure anyone would not want us to win the EL who ever is in charge. That would be a tremendous achievement and it's a no brainer that Ange should then get more time.

If we don't win the EL, the decision is more problematic for me. Ange, IMHO, hasn't shown yet that he can win the big games and that's really important for this team's development. Aside from City, (and they of course are having a poor season by their standards) and Villa, we have lost to every other team in the top 10. Not even drawn - lost. It's an awful record. Villa were the outlier result IMHO in that they were doing reasonably well when we beat them.

If Ange can achieve results in games which we might not be expected to win showing he can manage those big games then he should be given more time even if he doesn't win the EL.

I want us to win every game (and keep a clean sheet in it), but even if we run the board to close the season out I'd still sack him.

It's not personal, I hate his philosophy, I think it's totally at odds with what it takes to regularly qualify for the CL, and thats all I care about.