• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Ange in or out?

Ange in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 84 51.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 78 48.1%
  • Total voters
    162
braineclipse said:
Yeah. Definitely missing that Kane, prime Son, player. The one opposition will really worry about, the one you can trust to show up with a moment of magic no matter how the game goes.

Really could do with one or two of those...
Click to expand...

I want us to sign a £60-80m calibre central midfielder who can boss matches plus a forward like those that you describe. That and make Tel permanent. Would cost around £220m so let’s hope Levy is feeling generous.
 
Daisuk said:
He moulded that team. We deserved to win more. We were the best team in the league the season Leicester won and the season after, in my opinion. We were also the best team in the CL final, in my opinion. The fact that we didn't win more was not down to him, he made that team the sexy powerhouse that it was, we were only margins and unlucky circumstances away from winning what we deserved. Retrospectively looking at that team and saying we should have won more and placing the blame of that on Poch just seems like looking for a negative angle that isn't really there, in my opinion. Bottom line for me: we would not have been that good in the first place without Poch.
Click to expand...
Don’t get me wrong, i appreciate what he done here and it was an incredible job but its always that almost / what if feeling when looking back at it. He built the best team in the league at that point but had nothing to show for it other than almost winning something. Overall he done excellent but basing it on the team he built and what he had at his disposal the team underachieved when it comes to having anything to show for it.

We had our moment and didn’t take it with both hands.

Liverpool were similar before Klopp came in and he rejuvenated it and had something to show at the end of it.

Arsenal are having their moment now and although they have not won loads Arteta still won an FA cup.

Uniteds moment hasn’t happened since Ferguson but they have still won things with worse squads than we had then.

I’m not saying Poch underachieved looking at the whole picture but in terms of that moment he had a top quality squad, he did underachieve in my opinion.
 
demotw said:
From a certain perspective I would actually agree with this. I think at one point it could be argued we had the strongest team/squad in the league and player for player it would be hard to think who we would switch out.

I wouldn't necessarily say Poch underachieved, rather the whole team did - they regularly collapsed under pressure or when expectation was placed on them. But I would also add the Poch inherited most of the best parts of that team (the spine of LLoris/Eriksen/Kane/Rose/Walker/Verts/Dembele/Lamela all pre-dated Poch) so I think any manager would have done well with the talent we had. I also think his selections at times such as Kane in the CL final rather then an impact sub or worse selling Dembele mid season, personally I would have kept him on like Ledley, only playing him in the key games like the CL final and let his contract expire.
Click to expand...

I think that is a fair and honest summing up of our time under Pooch, the players far too often failed to turn up [especially on the big games] but Poch has to take some blame for that as well. The team, players and manager got us into posistions to achieve things but we failed at the final hurdle.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Leicester season had a lot of things that year
City being brick
Teams bending over for Leicester
Us always playing after them and on Monday nights
Other teams faltering despite being top
Diving for penalties
Click to expand...

You forgot PGMOL deciding that Leciester were going to win it. Double standards all season from the refs.

Strange old year though. They won on 81 points. We got 86 points the year after and came second.
 
Yiddo said:
But still won fudge all. He gets the award for trying the hardest but he had plenty of chances to win something and him and his team bottled it, its ok though because its all Levy’s fault.

Most people agree that our first 11 was arguably the best in the league at that time yet couldn’t win anything, surely thats underachieving?
Click to expand...

It’s not all on Levy but it is partly on him. You can’t say it’s nothing to do with him.
 
Yiddo said:
Don’t get me wrong, i appreciate what he done here and it was an incredible job but its always that almost / what if feeling when looking back at it. He built the best team in the league at that point but had nothing to show for it other than almost winning something. Overall he done excellent but basing it on the team he built and what he had at his disposal the team underachieved when it comes to having anything to show for it.

We had our moment and didn’t take it with both hands.

Liverpool were similar before Klopp came in and he rejuvenated it and had something to show at the end of it.

Arsenal are having their moment now and although they have not won loads Arteta still won an FA cup.

Uniteds moment hasn’t happened since Ferguson but they have still won things with worse squads than we had then.

I’m not saying Poch underachieved looking at the whole picture but in terms of that moment he had a top quality squad, he did underachieve in my opinion.
Click to expand...

I don't really disagree with any of that. Looking back at how good we were, we should have won something, but for whatever reason, we didn't. I find it really hard to find that reason - the only couple of things I can point at personally is bad luck and circumstances. Opening the CL final with that ridiculous hand ball. Leicester absolutely rubbing themselves in green especially from x-mas on in the season they won. I think it's understated just how lucky they were that season. It always just sounds like us being salty complaining about it - but they were incredibly lucky that season, and teams really did seem to bend over to them. I remember our home game against them - we battered them, but still they won 1-0 after their only shot on target, a header from fudging Huth. In a crunch game towards the end, at home to Norwich, they were under the cosh for large parts of the game, at 1-0 Norwich second half Richmond finished from close range, post to post and into Schmeichel's arms. Then a disallowed goal for Norwich that looked onside. Then, out of the fudging blue, Leicester score two to win the game at the end. And so it went on. Game after game. How they won the league that year is still a complete mystery to me. A bad joke from the footballing gods.
 
demotw said:
From a certain perspective I would actually agree with this. I think at one point it could be argued we had the strongest team/squad in the league and player for player it would be hard to think who we would switch out.

I wouldn't necessarily say Poch underachieved, rather the whole team did - they regularly collapsed under pressure or when expectation was placed on them. But I would also add the Poch inherited most of the best parts of that team (the spine of LLoris/Eriksen/Kane/Rose/Walker/Verts/Dembele/Lamela all pre-dated Poch) so I think any manager would have done well with the talent we had. I also think his selections at times such as Kane in the CL final rather then an impact sub or worse selling Dembele mid season, personally I would have kept him on like Ledley, only playing him in the key games like the CL final and let his contract expire.
Click to expand...
We never had the strongest squad in the league and it is squads not teams that tend to win you trophies (unless you really luck out)
 
Daisuk said:
He moulded that team. We deserved to win more. We were the best team in the league the season Leicester won and the season after, in my opinion. We were also the best team in the CL final, in my opinion. The fact that we didn't win more was not down to him, he made that team the sexy powerhouse that it was, we were only margins and unlucky circumstances away from winning what we deserved. Retrospectively looking at that team and saying we should have won more and placing the blame of that on Poch just seems like looking for a negative angle that isn't really there, in my opinion. Bottom line for me: we would not have been that good in the first place without Poch.
Click to expand...
We were not better than Chelsea or the Liverpool team that won the CL. That's some crazy revisionism. That Liverpool side got 97 flipping points, we weren't even close to them in quality.
 
Finney Is Back said:
We never had the strongest squad in the league and it is squads not teams that tend to win you trophies (unless you really luck out)
Click to expand...

Hmm you may be right, from memory though we lacked the backup striker (albeit Llorente did ok) but our backups were Lamela, Sissoko, Davies, Trippier, Dier, Foyth - that wasn't too shabby imo.

We might have missed a LB as well to be fair, although Davies did a reasonable job.
 
demotw said:
Hmm you may be right, from memory though we lacked the backup striker (albeit Llorente did ok) but our backups were Lamela, Sissoko, Davies, Trippier, Dier, Foyth - that wasn't too shabby imo.

We might have missed a LB as well to be fair, although Davies did a reasonable job.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but Llorente came in the summer of 2017. That was an entire season after Leciester won it on 81 points. I'm assuming we had Janssen and perhaps even Njie.

Our best season was 16/17 when we got 86 points. It was downhill from then, including 18/19 when we got to the CL final.

16/17 was Poch's peak setup in my opinion.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Game was won by the ref making a horrendous call in the first minute
Made the game a none starter
Click to expand...
I agree, but I keep seeing ppl claiming we should have won the game. We were crap, they weren't much better but they didn't need to be. I dare anyone to go back and watch that match, it doesn't go the way you think it does. Awful match.
 
This was Poch's dilemma. This is a great team

Lloris
Walker, Toby, Jan, Rose
Big Vic, Wanyama
Eriksen, Dele, Sonny
Kane

The only backup that was fantastic at that time was Dier. He was never really a backup either as there was always a reason for him to be included in the line-up and why he got 50 caps for England. Winks was also amazing pre-injury as well. The only other player that slotted in quite well was Lamela. I thought Davies and Trips were a step down from Walker and Rose but adequate cover. The full-back play was one of the x-factors in that system.

It was a very light squad.
 
Yiddo said:
But still won fudge all. He gets the award for trying the hardest but he had plenty of chances to win something and him and his team bottled it, its ok though because its all Levy’s fault.

Most people agree that our first 11 was arguably the best in the league at that time yet couldn’t win anything, surely thats underachieving?
Click to expand...
Klopp and Pep, both lost their first Champions League finals with Liverpool and City. Klopp finished second in the league too. The difference was though their clubs built on those initial losses and enabled their success. Unfortunately Poch didn't have such luxury and that is a because of a combination of the stadium rebuild and the inefficient recruitment process.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Game was won by the ref making a horrendous call in the first minute
Made the game a none starter
Click to expand...

It was a poor call. But we still had 90 minutes to get back into the game. Both teams were far from their best but we didn’t put them under any sustained pressure so they managed the game. I think that game reflects our performances in finals and ‘win and go top of the league’ matches, we just never looked convincing or assured in those moments. That’s one criticism of Poch which I feel is valid. But the original point that he underachieved is way off the mark.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back