Ange in or out?

[Pandy]

Moyes still made sure you don't lose first and you win second. He gave a debut at right back to a 6'4" centre half. He made sure his boys won the midfield knowing the guys like Madds wouldn't be up for the fight. He exploited the gung ho attitude of our setup.

Classic Moyes, and he deserved the win.

On the game itself, the only case I have for us is the 2 penalties. Saying that, if the schoolboy error from Davies had been punished it would have been over anyway.

Yesterday's result had nothing to do with Moyes and everything to do with the absolute disgrace that was whatever that 3-4-2-1 brick was.

I've never seen a more obviously underprepared tactical approach in any game ever. It was quite obvious that we'd never practiced that shape and it showed as one of the worst teams in the division ripped through us countless times and could have gone in at 4-0 or 5-0 up.

As soon as we switched back to our usual approach, even with a drastically reduced squad, we were by far the better team and scored twice without giving away many decent chances at all.

I was fully Ange in before the game and in just one half of football he has managed to put me right on the edge of wanting him sacked. He either threw away 3 points on principle, or vastly underestimated the task at hand. Both of which paint him in a terrible light.

 

[DeanoAustin]

I don't think he is arrogant. I think he is perhaps stubborn in his beliefs and principles as to what he believes football is. Arrogance suggests he's a clown shoe, and I do not think he is anywhere close. He is reportedly a bit of a lone wolf in the sense he is not all jolly-warmth and performative like some (BTW I am not slagging performative, I personally like managers to have a bit of that and feel it would help Ange if he could project a bit of warmth and 'spirit').

I think your last line rings true.
Bring in the next sucker eh?! Because let's face it, we are looking for a Poich-sized miracle to pull it together, and by that I mean someone who can ride the (footballing investment) trabant we dress up as a Bentley and win the race.

I don’t think he’s a clown shoe and I don’t think arrogance necessarily equates to being one. You need a steadfast belief in what you’re doing to achieve what Ange has achieved in his career. He has that to the point he can be a bit condescending but he’s still a likeable man IMO.

 

[Muttley]

Yesterday's result had nothing to do with Moyes and everything to do with the absolute disgrace that was whatever that 3-4-2-1 brick was.

I've never seen a more obviously underprepared tactical approach in any game ever. It was quite obvious that we'd never practiced that shape and it showed as one of the worst teams in the division ripped through us countless times and could have gone in at 4-0 or 5-0 up.

As soon as we switched back to our usual approach, even with a drastically reduced squad, we were by far the better team and scored twice without giving away many decent chances at all.

I was fully Ange in before the game and in just one half of football he has managed to put me right on the edge of wanting him sacked. He either threw away 3 points on principle, or vastly underestimated the task at hand. Both of which paint him in a terrible light.

I think that is unfair on Moyes and his players, but get your point.

I've already said that putting a team into a 3-5-2 shape is easy. It happens every week. The way Ange approached it was just dumb.

When is he going to adapt to the PL?

 

[thfcsteff]

Why not?

We play a symmetrical system.

Just different lines, angles, etc...technical stuff. It's why Spence and Gray are very very impressive because they make it look easy. If you played Porro at LB you'd see what I mean!

 

[thfcsteff]

I don’t think he’s a clown shoe and I don’t think arrogance necessarily equates to being one. You need a steadfast belief in what you’re doing to achieve what Ange has achieved in his career. He has that to the point he can be a bit condescending but he’s still a likeable man IMO.

I just think that if he was a bit 'brighter' and a better media performer, he wouldn't get labelled condescending. Often, people like him are actually quite socially awkward and tend to come across in a way that isn't reflective...IMO...but I absolutely get your wider POV mate.

 

[Baleforce]

Just different lines, angles, etc...technical stuff. It's why Spence and Gray are very very impressive because they make it look easy. If you played Porro at LB you'd see what I mean!

Yes, but exact reverse angles, and they have two feet.

If Porro couldn’t slot straight in at LB that reflects poorly on him.

 

[Daveeeeeeeed]

Didn't someone on here say that they should stick cameras on the ground and point them up when they record them when interviewing Ange?

Made me giggle.

 

[billyiddo]

Would you risk going to Brighton, Ipswich, Arsenal or Villa and getting injured?

I thought our injury record is supposed to be much worse than anyone else?

 

[thfcsteff]

I thought our injury record is supposed to be much worse than anyone else?

Top 4. We should be satisfied.

 

[billyiddo]

Top 4. We should be satisfied.

Interesting, all those other teams mentioned seemed to be coping

 

[demotw]

Interestingly Sky is running the same poll with similar %. I’m still Ange In but only just and only because I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt due to injuries

 

[scaramanga]

England's number 1 keeper at present is a far better bet than Kinsky (who I think has great promise and will replace Vicario reasonably quickly).

As for Calvert-Lewin - yep he's not great.... and yet he is a far better number 9 than Son, our starter in that position yesterday.

Son's having a shocker of a season but he's still scored twice as many goals in 2 fewer appearances. He'd be a long way down my list of starting CFs, but Calvert-Lewin isn't even on it.

I'd pick Vicario hands down over Pigford without even having to think about it. He's significantly better at everything and he doesn't have T-Rex arms. And I'd pick Kinsky over Vicario.

 

[Baleforce]

View attachment 18593

Interestingly Sky is running the same poll with similar %. I’m still Ange In but only just and only because I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt due to injuries

99% of those votes are from fans of other clubs enjoying Banter FC

 

[demotw]

99% of those votes are from fans of other clubs enjoying Banter FC

Quite possibly lol, I did consider that but it’s still a reflection of the % we have here as well

 

[RunTMC]

I’m staying the course, I’m hanging in there. Ange in. But the truth is this is only heading in one direction and he’s a dead man walking.

I’ll have to admit that he lost me yesterday because he basically abandoned his principles. The main reason for Ange in is because I’m just tired of us as a club sacking managers and the whole manager merry-go-round thing it has to stop. And also I want his sacking to be clean where pretty much everybody is united in it. Right now, there’s a narrative because of our injury crisis.

I want to see him given a chance with our injured players back and if it continues to head in the same direction, then yeah, he’s gotta go, to prevent relegation. However, ideally I’d like to see that change made at the end of the season that way, he would’ve had a good full two years and no one can say we didn’t give him a chance.

 

[Batspur]

This is why we can’t have nice things. We always break them.

Ange needs our support more than ever now. As do the players. The ones that give a brick anyway. The lack of professionalism given to Ange from some of the player’s performance was a tinkle take and the reaction from the fans is borderline hysterical.

Ange is doing the best he can do with the tools available. Even the now highly esteemed Saint Moyes ( for some reason ) would struggle to get results with whats at Anges disposal.

Look at who came in.

Dominic Solanke	26	AFC Bournemouth	€59.7M
Archie Gray	18	Leeds United	€38.3M
Wilson Odobert	19	Burnley F.C	€25.74M
Lucas Bergvall	18	Djurgårdens IF	€9.3M
Min-hyeok Yang	18	Gangwon FC	€3.7M

3 youngsters. Both of whom have become regular starters. Which is insane. 2 18 year olds with zero prem experience now first on the team sheet. Solanke has been out as many times as he’s been available. Odobert must have been bought injured.

It’s not all Ange’s fault. We were crying out for someone like Connor Gallagher but Levy wouldn’t offer a serious price. Now he’s pulling up trees in Spain…

And now there is a massive pile on onto Ange. Happens every time. Its always the manager. I can promise you that Ange will be successful at his next club. Most them are. Same as the players we sell.

The next manager after Mason…again…will be the same. Rinse and repeat.

Its never the one common denominator. It’s always one more chance for teflon.

 

[Gazza]

I’m staying the course, I’m hanging in there. Ange in. But the truth is this is only heading in one direction and he’s a dead man walking.

I’ll have to admit that he lost me yesterday because he basically abandoned his principles. The main reason for Ange in is because I’m just tired of us as a club sacking managers and the whole manager merry-go-round thing it has to stop. And also I want his sacking to be clean where pretty much everybody is united in it. Right now, there’s a narrative because of our injury crisis.

I want to see him given a chance with our injured players back and if it continues to head in the same direction, then yeah, he’s gotta go, to prevent relegation. However, ideally I’d like to see that change made at the end of the season that way, he would’ve had a good full two years and no one can say we didn’t give him a chance.

Boring.

He doesn’t have the credentials to be the one manager that should be have been backed. Nothing annoys me tells me that he is a good manager or up for this level of coaching or scrutiny. He’s been found out last season, a busted flush. Managers with inferior squad’s and similar injuries are wiping the floor with him tactically.

I’m all for a project manager etc but at the very least you have to earn that not just be a token because of the previous.

Anyway Ancelotti is leaving Real Madrid this year. Don Carlo is the man that levy should break all of his stupid recruitment rules for.

 

[scaramanga]

This is why we can’t have nice things. We always break them.

Ange needs our support more than ever now. As do the players. The ones that give a brick anyway. The lack of professionalism given to Ange from some of the player’s performance was a tinkle take and the reaction from the fans is borderline hysterical.

Ange is doing the best he can do with the tools available. Even the now highly esteemed Saint Moyes ( for some reason ) would struggle to get results with whats at Anges disposal.

Look at who came in.

Dominic Solanke	26	AFC Bournemouth	€59.7M
Archie Gray	18	Leeds United	€38.3M
Wilson Odobert	19	Burnley F.C	€25.74M
Lucas Bergvall	18	Djurgårdens IF	€9.3M
Min-hyeok Yang	18	Gangwon FC	€3.7M

3 youngsters. Both of whom have become regular starters. Which is insane. 2 18 year olds with zero prem experience now first on the team sheet. Solanke has been out as many times as he’s been available. Odobert must have been bought injured.

It’s not all Ange’s fault. We were crying out for someone like Connor Gallagher but Levy wouldn’t offer a serious price. Now he’s pulling up trees in Spain…

And now there is a massive pile on onto Ange. Happens every time. Its always the manager. I can promise you that Ange will be successful at his next club. Most them are. Same as the players we sell.

The next manager after Mason…again…will be the same. Rinse and repeat.

Its never the one common denominator. It’s always one more chance for teflon.

He's had terrible luck with injuries (possibly he's partly to blame but let's be generous).

But he has to adapt to what we have available. He can't keep blindly doing what he'd do with his first 11 if they're not available. At this stage, he has to get points by any means available and he has to get them quickly.

 

[billyiddo]

This is why we can’t have nice things. We always break them.

Ange needs our support more than ever now. As do the players. The ones that give a brick anyway. The lack of professionalism given to Ange from some of the player’s performance was a tinkle take and the reaction from the fans is borderline hysterical.

Ange is doing the best he can do with the tools available. Even the now highly esteemed Saint Moyes ( for some reason ) would struggle to get results with whats at Anges disposal.

Look at who came in.

Dominic Solanke	26	AFC Bournemouth	€59.7M
Archie Gray	18	Leeds United	€38.3M
Wilson Odobert	19	Burnley F.C	€25.74M
Lucas Bergvall	18	Djurgårdens IF	€9.3M
Min-hyeok Yang	18	Gangwon FC	€3.7M

3 youngsters. Both of whom have become regular starters. Which is insane. 2 18 year olds with zero prem experience now first on the team sheet. Solanke has been out as many times as he’s been available. Odobert must have been bought injured.

It’s not all Ange’s fault. We were crying out for someone like Connor Gallagher but Levy wouldn’t offer a serious price. Now he’s pulling up trees in Spain…

And now there is a massive pile on onto Ange. Happens every time. Its always the manager. I can promise you that Ange will be successful at his next club. Most them are. Same as the players we sell.

The next manager after Mason…again…will be the same. Rinse and repeat.

Its never the one common denominator. It’s always one more chance for teflon.

The club have committed to and are in the middle of a rebuild and we really need to evaluate things based on that rather than the idea that we are out the other side of one and looking to challenge further up the table. Ange would have known this when taking the job and has said as much regarding how many windows it will take to get the squad to where it needs to be. We have had to bring in younger players to address the issues with home grown & association trained players that our previous transfer policy (or lack thereof) created. Ange signed off on all of those players and said that they were ready to make an impact in the immediate term as much as the long term. The players there who have all played minutes for us all look to be good/great signings.

 

[RunTMC]

Feels somewhat a cop-out on your part

But fair enough

I know exactly how he feels. Ange lost me too yesterday. And it’s wasn’t about the performance because I’ve seen far worse.

The game started and I was looking out for Gray in midfield, something I’ve been looking forward to but pretty soon I saw 3 at the back. WTF???

He basically abandoned his principles. Something he said he’d never do. He’s basically a fraud. Ok that may be too strong but certainly spineless. Just put Gray in midfield and keep the shape. If you’re going to lose your nerve do it against a big team, not Everton.