Ange in or out?

[Gazza]

Red flags with our lack of activity in the market … if we sign some experience then I may think Ange has a punchers chance at keeping his job, sign no one of immediate currency then he’s already a dead man in the cross hairs

 

[Muttley]

I know you rate Braithwaite and others do but he has talked dropped back to the pre hype levels for me
I do agree these guys would have played though but if we stuck with the word 3-4-2-1 set up that we tried we would have lost

My MotM yesterday. You can tell he is waiting for the big move and staying very professional in everything he does.

Compare him to Davies who was hopeless. You or I could have played that ball in the first half. Davies took up a criminal position for a centre half and we should have conceded another in that moment due to his naivety.

 

[billyiddo]

If you're a player would you risk coming here and getting injured?

 

[Muttley]

Pickford’s a lunatic; Tarkowski is the very definition of bog-standard; Doucoure has spent his entire career flattering to deceive; we would have lost 6-2 if Calvert-Lewin was a functioning footballer; wouldn’t know Braithwaite if he kicked me on the shin; Gueye…maybe.

Ndiaye was fantastic and didn't even get a mention above. Work rate and end result.

 

[glorygloryeze]

I think he is done. The club have shown their 'support' thus far in the window IMO. I appreciate it is difficult to get players in Jan, etc, but I would've expected them to have had a list in Dec and be actively engaged in discussions. I think it is very very clear that they are signing for the project and not the manager (which in fairness is the right direction) however a shoirt 6 month loan or two this window would've shown they were also backing him.
They're leaving him to dangle slowly in the loose noose, feet still just about touching the chair below; their idea of 'support' IMO is to not kick the chair away. Yet.

Yeah, it's like they really don't want to have to fire him, they'd prefer he resign after it becomes all too untenable...and they can save on the severance fee.

If we're honest, i think the lack of faith in him was shown in the summer....just a whole lot of spinelessness all round

 

[Legohamster]

Dead man walking and that's why the games coming up will be harder, zero chance the players don't know it as well.

Today, after the 2nd leg, end of next season, doesn't matter, it's been 17+ fudging years since we finished outside the top 8, no fudging chance he's going to get us anywhere near that.

This is classic example of funs/pundits knowing fudge all, "reason Spurs doesn't progress is because they are too trigger happy", in hindsight, all that has been proven is what we already know, when results start to spiral for a manger, it basically never recovers. He should have been fired the minute we dropped out the top 10, and we'd have way less injuries and maybe a season to save still.

Yes sir, all his desperation has done is seen more injuries.
I can't believe the club have held on this long, it was obvious a long time ago he was completely out of his depth.
I can only imagine Munn is still backing him as his head is in the noose as well.

 

[Muttley]

Yeah, it's like they really don't want to have to fire him, they'd prefer he resign after it becomes all too untenable...and they can save on the severance fee.

If we're honest, i think the lack of faith in him was shown in the summer....just a whole lot of spinelessness all round

Maybe spineless is a bad word for Ange, but he is definitely something. The way he ignores massive chapters of the manager playbook is something. Ignorant? Arrogant? Self Indulgent? You choose, but this is what is really coming home to roost with him. Yesterday was a classic case of Moyes using the manager playbook, whilst Ange ignored it and though he knew better.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Maybe spineless is a bad word for Ange, but he is definitely something. The way he ignores massive chapters of the manager playbook is something. Ignorant? Arrogant? Self Indulgent? You choose, but this is what is really coming home to roost with him. Yesterday was a classic case of Moyes using the manager playbook, whilst Ange ignored it and though he knew better.

When i mentioned spinelessness, i wasn't talking about Ange...

 

[thfcsteff]

Maybe spineless is a bad word for Ange, but he is definitely something. The way he ignores massive chapters of the manager playbook is something. Ignorant? Arrogant? Self Indulgent? You choose, but this is what is really coming home to roost with him. Yesterday was a classic case of Moyes using the manager playbook, whilst Ange ignored it and though he knew better.

He made a big mistake yesterday, however I think it'd be fair to give him some leeway too. Since November he's been dealing with wave after wave of brick. He is likely severely under-rested and fatigued himself, and then he loses his main striker 24 hours before. Moyes had an easy task yesterday; he's fresh back at a place which loves him, so two-fold manager bounce incoming.

 

[Muttley]

When i mentioned spinelessness, i wasn't talking about Ange...

Yeah, I know. You keep referring to the recruitment side.

I'm actually at peace with the situation. I've removed all the other variables and got this one down to Ange. He is really annoying me with his management through this period. Stubborn is perhaps the best word.

I'd rather have Dyche's experience closing out this season. We need that attention to detail that is currently missing. We need someone who can unscramble some very scrambled players heads.

 

[thfcsteff]

If you're a player would you risk coming here and getting injured?

Would you risk going to Brighton, Ipswich, Arsenal or Villa and getting injured?

 

[DeanoAustin]

Maybe spineless is a bad word for Ange, but he is definitely something. The way he ignores massive chapters of the manager playbook is something. Ignorant? Arrogant? Self Indulgent? You choose, but this is what is really coming home to roost with him. Yesterday was a classic case of Moyes using the manager playbook, whilst Ange ignored it and though he knew better.

It’s an arrogance for me. And I don’t mean that to sound as damning as it does. It’s gotten him this far and he couldn’t have made it without being a bit arrogant. I’m sure he’s been knocked every step of the way in his career - to get from being a bank clerk on the other side of the world to a Premier League manager at 57 is a remarkable achievement.

He can be very insightful and has a wonderful big picture view of the world. But he also talks like he’s unlocked the secrets of the game and we all just need to stick with him because he “knows it works”. So often he gives anything but the obvious answer to a question and much of the time it’s insightful but sometimes he comes across as trying to look more clever than anyone else.

Sadly, as his methods crumble under the spotlight of the Premier League, he’s resorted to saying things that aren’t true or are just complete nonsense (see my post re his comments on scoring v Tamworth and how many fit players he had yesterday). He looks like a man who has just discovered that he’s gone all-in on black and the game is rigged for the ball to land on red and there is nothing he can do to stop the inevitable.

A nice man, a good guy but the game is up for him. It’s just a matter of time.

 

[Muttley]

He made a big mistake yesterday, however I think it'd be fair to give him some leeway too. Since November he's been dealing with wave after wave of brick. He is likely severely under-rested and fatigued himself, and then he loses his main striker 24 hours before. Moyes had an easy task yesterday; he's fresh back at a place which loves him, so two-fold manager bounce incoming.

Moyes still made sure you don't lose first and you win second. He gave a debut at right back to a 6'4" centre half. He made sure his boys won the midfield knowing the guys like Madds wouldn't be up for the fight. He exploited the gung ho attitude of our setup.

Classic Moyes, and he deserved the win.

On the game itself, the only case I have for us is the 2 penalties. Saying that, if the schoolboy error from Davies had been punished it would have been over anyway.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Would you risk going to Brighton, Ipswich, Arsenal or Villa and getting injured?

Petit said something very interesting on MNF tonight and Carragher didn’t disagree. He said when things aren’t going well, you’ll find injuries start to come much easier to a club. Wonder if there is anything in that for us.

 

[Muttley]

It’s an arrogance for me. And I don’t mean that to sound as damning as it does. It’s gotten him this far and he couldn’t have made it without being a bit arrogant. I’m sure he’s been knocked every step of the way in his career - to get from being a bank clerk on the other side of the world to a Premier League manager at 57 is a remarkable achievement.

He can be very insightful and has a wonderful big picture view of the world. But he also talks like he’s unlocked the secrets of the game and we all just need to stick with him because he “knows it works”. So often he gives anything but the obvious answer to a question and much of the time it’s insightful but sometimes he comes across as trying to look more clever than anyone else.

Sadly, as his methods crumble under the spotlight of the Premier League, he’s resorted to saying things that aren’t true or are just complete nonsense (see my post re his comments on scoring v Tamworth and how many fit players he had yesterday). He looks like a man who has just discovered that he’s gone all-in on black and the game is rigged for the ball to land on red and there is nothing he can do to stop the inevitable.

A nice man, a good guy but the game is up for him. It’s just a matter of time.

Good post, especially about that perception that he thinks he's some sort of football genius and then gets undone regularly.

 

[Finney Is Back]

You'd have stated Pickford over Kinsky?

I suspect every single manager in World football would.

 

[thfcsteff]

It’s an arrogance for me. And I don’t mean that to sound as damning as it does. It’s gotten him this far and he couldn’t have made it without being a bit arrogant. I’m sure he’s been knocked every step of the way in his career - to get from being a bank clerk on the other side of the world to a Premier League manager at 57 is a remarkable achievement.

He can be very insightful and has a wonderful big picture view of the world. But he also talks like he’s unlocked the secrets of the game and we all just need to stick with him because he “knows it works”. So often he gives anything but the obvious answer to a question and much of the time it’s insightful but sometimes he comes across as trying to look more clever than anyone else.

Sadly, as his methods crumble under the spotlight of the Premier League, he’s resorted to saying things that aren’t true or are just complete nonsense (see my post re his comments on scoring v Tamworth and how many fit players he had yesterday). He looks like a man who has just discovered that he’s gone all-in on black and the game is rigged for the ball to land on red and there is nothing he can do to stop the inevitable.

A nice man, a good guy but the game is up for him. It’s just a matter of time.

I don't think he is arrogant. I think he is perhaps stubborn in his beliefs and principles as to what he believes football is. Arrogance suggests he's a clown shoe, and I do not think he is anywhere close. He is reportedly a bit of a lone wolf in the sense he is not all jolly-warmth and performative like some (BTW I am not slagging performative, I personally like managers to have a bit of that and feel it would help Ange if he could project a bit of warmth and 'spirit').

I think your last line rings true.
Bring in the next sucker eh?! Because let's face it, we are looking for a Poich-sized miracle to pull it together, and by that I mean someone who can ride the (footballing investment) trabant we dress up as a Bentley and win the race.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Pigford shouldn't be in any PL team, let alone ours.

And then a pile of meh dross. Calvert-Lewin is one of the worst strikers the PL has seen. Can't buy a goal this season and he scores against us

England's number 1 keeper at present is a far better bet than Kinsky (who I think has great promise and will replace Vicario reasonably quickly).

As for Calvert-Lewin - yep he's not great.... and yet he is a far better number 9 than Son, our starter in that position yesterday.

 

[thfcsteff]

Petit said something very interesting on MNF tonight and Carragher didn’t disagree. He said when things aren’t going well, you’ll find injuries start to come much easier to a club. Wonder if there is anything in that for us.

I'd certainly entertain that. And I'd say that if that is the case, he is beyond toast.

 

[Baleforce]

Not nearly that linear at all.

Why not?

We play a symmetrical system.