Ange in or out?

[Muttley]

You can't say it wouldn't have finished 11 v 11 as Saudi Sportswashing Machine likely reign it in if they get a card early doors. You can argue that an early yellow changes the dynamic of the game in terms of its physicality but you can't say it would change our sloppiness in the first half or our poor finishing/end product in the second.

Yes, but it is not up to any referee to allow them the choice of not having to reign it in. That has been my issue for a long time now. Referees are handing out advantages because they are ignoring the laws of the game.

Show me where in the laws of the game does it say that the exact same offence is a yellow in the 85th minute but isn't in the 5th minute. A yellow card is a yellow card in any minute of the game.

I don't care for FIFA agendas to keep 22 players on the pitch.

 

[Finney Is Back]

You can't say it wouldn't have finished 11 v 11 as Saudi Sportswashing Machine likely rein it in if they get a card early doors. You can argue that an early yellow changes the dynamic of the game in terms of its physicality but you can't say it would change our sloppiness in the first half or our poor finishing/end product in the second.

Burn should’ve got a 2nd yellow.

 

[glasgowspur]

This nonsense of playing advantage and got going back to book a player needs to stop.
I watched some of the arsenal game, there was a clear pull of shirt, fully extended arm, a sail of a jersey but because the ball was released the ref waved play on, arsenal won the ball back and basically passed it around the back to stop the ball going dead and giving the ref a chance to issue the card.
If the letter of the law has to be applied in some cases it needs to be applied in all, that is not a subjective infringement, it's a yellow card offense.
That is the rule, apply it.

 

[Muttley]

Burn should’ve got a 2nd yellow.

Just take that one decision as an example. Howe would have probably had to sacrifice an attacker (Murphy?) to bring Lloyd Kelly into the back four. He would have used one of his sub windows half way through the first half. That means Tonali would have had to shift over, and potentially Isak would have had to cover their right channel along with Tonali.

These moments are massive in games of football.

 

[braineclipse]

Referees will continue to be inconsistent. And in some games rather brick. Teams will continue to time waste and referees won't do much about it. Some games we'll have several fairly big calls not going our way.

The key is how the team reacts to that. In the Saudi Sportswashing Machine game I thought they reacted well.

 

[Kompakted]

Burn should’ve got a 2nd yellow.

Should've, could've, would've. A cautionable offence in FA rules is "unsporting behaviour" which includes: "handling the ball to interfere with or stop a promising attack".

So the first bit of interpretation here is whether the handball was intentional or accidental.

The second bit of interpretation is whether the handball interfered with or stopped a "promising attack".

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Ange will 100% still be here at the end of the season.

And mainly because the players are still giving everything, and as such, are behind him.

Whether his style/plan works eventually is still up for debate, but more importantly still to be revealed. Ange is comfortable with that, if it loses him his job, he will accept he failed.

If it works, it will be glorious. We may as well find out.

 

[parklane1]

Should've, could've, would've. A cautionable offence in FA rules is "unsporting behaviour" which includes: "handling the ball to interfere with or stop a promising attack".

So the first bit of interpretation here is whether the handball was intentional or accidental.

The second bit of interpretation is whether the handball interfered with or stopped a "promising attack".

Thats all well and good BUT the handball set up a very promising attack for them.

 

[glasgowspur]

Thats all well and good BUT the handball set up a very promising attack for them.

Something being overlooked is that if he doesn't handball it Porro and Deki are in a very promising position to attack them with very little cover.
That alone makes me suspicious of the accidental nature of it.

 

[parklane1]

Something being overlooked is that if he doesn't handball it Porro and Deki are in a very promising position to attack them with very little cover.
That alone makes me suspicious of the accidental nature of it.

Exactly, if the ball had been directed into empty space fair enough but it set up a attack for Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Really poor decision by the ref and the FARCE that is VAR.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Something being overlooked is that if he doesn't handball it Porro and Deki are in a very promising position to attack them with very little cover.
That alone makes me suspicious of the accidental nature of it.

It wasn't a handball though. As partisan as we might be, Bergvall belted the ball at his hand from close range at 150mph.

You make decisions based on the action (in Joelinton's case, nothing wrong), not the consequence.

 

[Daveeeeeeeed]

Exactly, if the ball had been directed into empty space fair enough but it set up a attack for Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Really poor decision by the ref and the FARCE that is VAR.

Yet everyone in the media thinks Ange is being stupid (Shearer) and ex refs saying that nothing wrong with the decision etc. They're all cnuts and clearly everyone in the footballing world wants Spurs to fail.

Take that decision away, due to the rules, Burn and Joelinton shouldnt have been on the pitch at 1-1. I think the media are not focusing on the potential sendings offs and just focusing on that handball and goal being allowed.

 

[Gutter Boy]

The problem with the handball is just the inconsistency - it was the same 'offence' as Sissoko's in the CL final. That one was wrong, the Joelinton one was correct.

Agree with Daveeeeeed - it was the shirking the cards that was the big issue.

 

[glasgowspur]

It wasn't a handball though. As partisan as we might be, Bergvall belted the ball at his hand from close range at 150mph.

You make decisions based on the action (in Joelinton's case, nothing wrong), not the consequence.

It hit his hand, that's hand ball. The rules state it's accidental, that's the rule, does not alter the fact it hit his hand. It's within the rules, but it's still handball.
It also was not at 150mph and it was not belted at his hand, Bergvall was not trying to hit his hand, if you want a sensible debate at least make sensible points.
Bergvall and indeed spurs in general are being criticised for playing dangerous football, that pass goes through joelinton and Porro and Deki are away Saudi Sportswashing Machine have been caught out over committing on the press.
It hits joelinton hand with no consequence, a freak occurrence that can't be taken into account.

 

[glasgowspur]

Yet everyone in the media thinks Ange is being stupid (Shearer) and ex refs saying that nothing wrong with the decision etc. They're all cnuts and clearly everyone in the footballing world wants Spurs to fail.

Take that decision away, due to the rules, Burn and Joelinton shouldnt have been on the pitch at 1-1. I think the media are not focusing on the potential sendings offs and just focusing on that handball and goal being allowed.

The day I listen to anything that shearer in particular says about anything is the day they screw down the lid on my coffin.

 

[Kompakted]

Thats all well and good BUT the handball set up a very promising attack for them.

I'm talking about not giving Burn a second yellow for handball

 

[parklane1]

I'm talking about not giving Burn a second yellow for handball

Fair enough my mistake.

 

[braineclipse]

It wasn't a handball though. As partisan as we might be, Bergvall belted the ball at his hand from close range at 150mph.

You make decisions based on the action (in Joelinton's case, nothing wrong), not the consequence.

Most of the time that gets given as a handball imo. If it's inside the penalty area no, not enough for a penalty. But in play elsewhere on he pitch it usually gets given and everyone moves on.

 

[braineclipse]

Ange will 100% still be here at the end of the season.

And mainly because the players are still giving everything, and as such, are behind him.

Whether his style/plan works eventually is still up for debate, but more importantly still to be revealed. Ange is comfortable with that, if it loses him his job, he will accept he failed.

If it works, it will be glorious. We may as well find out.

Hope you're right.

If results continue to be as disappoint when we have more players fit he'll be in trouble imo. But I don't think they will be.

 

[Gutter Boy]

It hit his hand, that's hand ball. The rules state it's accidental, that's the rule, does not alter the fact it hit his hand. It's within the rules, but it's still handball.
It also was not at 150mph and it was not belted at his hand, Bergvall was not trying to hit his hand, if you want a sensible debate at least make sensible points.
Bergvall and indeed spurs in general are being criticised for playing dangerous football, that pass goes through joelinton and Porro and Deki are away Saudi Sportswashing Machine have been caught out over committing on the press.
It hits joelinton hand with no consequence, a freak occurrence that can't be taken into account.

Bergvall should have tried harder to play it round him then, rather than through him. Same as if it had been the referee in the way of the clearance he wanted to make. The hand/bodyshape was always there, it didn't move in response to the ball being kicked (in which case it would have been a foul).