Ange in or out?

[Muttley]

I don't get crowbarring that comment in to every sentence possible and then being annoyed at journos asking him to expand on what he means. It's ambiguous AF, why be a sulky teenager about it, just say what you mean or no comment it.

It doesn't stack up with his previous comments about refs. He's not quite at Tyson Fury levels of contradictions (who is) but Ange is heading there. I guess it's genius man management if it's shielding the players from criticism but I can't say I'm a fan.

I do. Ange feels betrayed by the referees that he's always supported, unlike other managers. He is learning that in England it's gone to an extreme level of incompetence and poor culture under PGMOL. He was stuck in the halfway house. I suggest he leaves that house and goes on the offensive and gets stuck into the idiots in that organisation. He should offer Howard Webb a glass of wine and they rewatch the game together. Let's see Howard stand behind some of those terrible yellow and red card misses. He couldn't.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Because our chairman is shopping in Lidl and not Harrods mate.

Better not say that in front of Jose or Conte

 

[fernadez]

The two changes id make are:

1) Two referee per game - 1 for each half of the pitch (the same as netball and ice hockey). Put the touchline guy to some actual use. That takes personality and ego out of the equation

2) Have referees randomly assigned from a european wide pool. Again it just kills personality, personal histories, biases etc.

Just steal the system from rugby. Ref's mic'd up, conversations with VAR broadcast etc.

Would solve all issues instantly including players bullying refs.

Football's incompetence thrives in the fact that everything is closed away, sanitized and drip fed after the fact.

 

[parklane1]

The two changes id make are:

1) Two referee per game - 1 for each half of the pitch (the same as netball and ice hockey). Put the touchline guy to some actual use. That takes personality and ego out of the equation

2) Have referees randomly assigned from a european wide pool. Again it just kills personality, personal histories, biases etc.

i played in the states for a couple of years and they did that then, it was utter madness and they stopped it after so many complaints.

 

[parklane1]

On the set pieces one, he was talking about his overall objective to make us competitive and didn’t think set pieces was a major part of that. He does work on them and the evidence this season is that they have been worked on because we’ve defended them better.

On the “I always win in my second season”, it’s being spun that he’s guaranteeing a trophy this year. He wasn’t. He said to the interviewer “that’s a statement of fact isn’t it? I’ve won a trophy in my second season everywhere I’ve been. And if I don’t win one this season, I won’t be able to say it in future.”

Both were naive things to say because they are sound bites that get thrown at him at every opportunity because that’s the world we live in but if you look beyond the soundbite, what he was saying was not unreasonable in either case.

Good to see that some others can understand excately what he said instead of using it just another reason to bitch about our manager.

 

[glasgowspur]

The two changes id make are:

1) Two referee per game - 1 for each half of the pitch (the same as netball and ice hockey). Put the touchline guy to some actual use. That takes personality and ego out of the equation

2) Have referees randomly assigned from a european wide pool. Again it just kills personality, personal histories, biases etc.

First one sounds like a good idea, but as no two refs seem to be able to ref a game the same way it'd be chaos.

 

[Gutter Boy]

First one sounds like a good idea, but as no two refs seem to be able to ref a game the same way it'd be chaos.

Thats kind of the point. But one would make all decisions in 1 half of the field and 1 the other - they wouldnt work together. It would return refereeing to being about simple decisions, not their self-inflated role of 'game management'

When the teams swap end at half time, they'd stay where they were, so effectively a complete reset for everyone.

 

[tommysvr]

Time to close this thread (for now...)

 

[Mulletperm]

Thats kind of the point. But one would make all decisions in 1 half of the field and 1 the other - they wouldnt work together. It would return refereeing to being about simple decisions, not their self-inflated role of 'game management'

When the teams swap end at half time, they'd stay where they were, so effectively a complete reset for everyone.

In Australian Rules Footy they have 4 on the field. Obviously AFL pitch is a lot bigger, but they are given specific zones to look after.

 

[braineclipse]

Time to close this thread (for now...)

Really happy with that if true. And a good source.

 

[braineclipse]

That's the point I'm making. I'm not saying that he said those things because he genuinely doesn't work on set pieces or that he genuinely thinks he's going to win a trophy this season. I'm saying that when he loses a game and feels under pressure, he can be a bit of a pr*ck. He was a pr*ck with the journalist that asked him about trophies and my point is, if you think the officials were corrupt and deliberately favouring Saudi Sportswashing Machine, say so, or s*** the f*** up. Honestly it's such a victim response "we didn't win because it wasn't a level playing field. What is he trying to imply? No, Ange, we didn't win because:
A) We went out onto a pitch in that first half totally unprepared for Saudi Sportswashing Machine's physicality and high press.
B) Despite being constantly caught by them on the edge of the box and being dominated by them physically we continued to play the same way and gave two sloppy goals away (AGAIN)
C) By the time you got them in at half time and sorted things out the game was as good as done and despite the effort in the 2nd half, Saudi Sportswashing Machine gave a demonstration of how you see out a slender lead away against a tough opponent who fights till the last - something your spurs team has shown itself completely incapable of doing in 18 months

A manager being a bit of a prick (accepting your description for the sake of argument) in a press conference after a loss is not an issue imo.

A) Disagree. We weren't great, but it was mostly close until maybe the last 15 minutes of the first half. And context matters here. A squad with a lot of injuries and fatigue then adding illness to that.

B) Austin played longer balls quite a bit I thought. Significantly more direct than we would have been with Romero and VdV in there.

C) We literally had our 5th and 6th choice CB out there, both being more or less make shift centre backs. Along with our 3rd choice goalkeeper. 3rd choice left back (at most). Again, squad with a lot of injuries and illness. Saudi Sportswashing Machine hung on, managed to hang on, just about. Not very impressive to me.

 

[Kompakted]

A manager being a bit of a prick (accepting your description for the sake of argument) in a press conference after a loss is not an issue imo.

A) Disagree. We weren't great, but it was mostly close until maybe the last 15 minutes of the first half. And context matters here. A squad with a lot of injuries and fatigue then adding illness to that.

B) Austin played longer balls quite a bit I thought. Significantly more direct than we would have been with Romero and VdV in there.

C) We literally had our 5th and 6th choice CB out there, both being more or less make shift centre backs. Along with our 3rd choice goalkeeper. 3rd choice left back (at most). Again, squad with a lot of injuries and illness. Saudi Sportswashing Machine hung on, managed to hang on, just about. Not very impressive to me.

The point is, we didn't lose because of the officials as suggested by the manager in his press conference. We lost because of a poor first half performance where we were sloppy on the ball and dominated by their high press which resulted in us giving up two goals. So "all things being equal", we'd still have lost.

 

[braineclipse]

The point is, we didn't lose because of the officials as suggested by the manager in his press conference. We lost because of a poor first half performance where we were sloppy on the ball and dominated by their high press which resulted in us giving up two goals. So "all things being equal", we'd still have lost.

Or he was talking about things being equal with regards to injuries or illness...

If he was talking about the refs imo he has a point. But that's not really important either.

What's being said I press conferences is mostly of very little importance.

 

[Muttley]

Or he was talking about things being equal with regards to injuries or illness...

If he was talking about the refs imo he has a point. But that's not really important either.

What's being said I press conferences is mostly of very little importance.

Nah, he was definitely talking about the refereeing. He knew that a win with injuries, fatigue, illness etc would have been significant and Madley single-handedly changed the game.

When Joelinton wiped out Porro early in the game, the TV cameras panned to Ange and he had completely lost his brick. The precedent had been set by Madley and it continued throughout the 90 mins.

We absolutely win that game if the cards were issued.

What is nice about what he said afterwards is that he can tell the FA to do one, and say he was talking about injuries and illness. They can't prove otherwise.

 

[DubSpur]

That's the point I'm making. I'm not saying that he said those things because he genuinely doesn't work on set pieces or that he genuinely thinks he's going to win a trophy this season. I'm saying that when he loses a game and feels under pressure, he can be a bit of a pr*ck. He was a pr*ck with the journalist that asked him about trophies and my point is, if you think the officials were corrupt and deliberately favouring Saudi Sportswashing Machine, say so, or s*** the f*** up. Honestly it's such a victim response "we didn't win because it wasn't a level playing field. What is he trying to imply? No, Ange, we didn't win because:
A) We went out onto a pitch in that first half totally unprepared for Saudi Sportswashing Machine's physicality and high press.
B) Despite being constantly caught by them on the edge of the box and being dominated by them physically we continued to play the same way and gave two sloppy goals away (AGAIN)
C) By the time you got them in at half time and sorted things out the game was as good as done and despite the effort in the 2nd half, Saudi Sportswashing Machine gave a demonstration of how you see out a slender lead away against a tough opponent who fights till the last - something your spurs team has shown itself completely incapable of doing in 18 months

I'd be more concerned if he was all happy after a defeat. I want him to be a prick, it shows he's disappointed and hurting after a loss.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Better not say that in front of Jose or Conte

Harrods had discontinued their Jose line years ago by the time we got him…. He was in TKMax in the ‘Gold label’ section.

Conte was from Harrods but purchased in the last knockings of the January sale when what was really needed was a present for Christmas.

 

[spurspinter1]

I do. Ange feels betrayed by the referees that he's always supported, unlike other managers. He is learning that in England it's gone to an extreme level of incompetence and poor culture under PGMOL. He was stuck in the halfway house. I suggest he leaves that house and goes on the offensive and gets stuck into the idiots in that organisation. He should offer Howard Webb a glass of wine and they rewatch the game together. Let's see Howard stand behind some of those terrible yellow and red card misses. He couldn't.

You don't get favourable decisions for supporting refs whilst things are going your way, it just doesn't work that way.

It seems like you're asking Ange to do a complete about turn on his stance, suggesting that it was all performative in the hope of gaining advantage. I don't think he is that calculated, but is understandly moody at the moment.

It's an unpopular view on here but I don't think the refereeing was that bad. I was surprised about the lack of handball for Joelinton, but that's on me for not understanding the law well enough.

 

[Kompakted]

I'd be more concerned if he was all happy after a defeat. I want him to be a prick, it shows he's disappointed and hurting after a loss.

I don't mind him being a prick. But I want him to be a professional prick. I didn't mind him digging out Werner the other week. He needed a rocket. But implying the match officials were favouring Saudi Sportswashing Machine deliberately crossed the line for me into unprofessionalism. And if he gets disciplined, he will have deserved it. There was no "unequal" treatment on that pitch as he implied. What you had was a referee who interpreted the rules on the more lenient side and a team in Saudi Sportswashing Machine that took advantage of that to deploy an aggressive high press against a team everyone knows will keep trying to play out from the back whatever the circumstances and they got two goals as a result.

There are still room for interpretation in all rules. Asking for robot like consistency in application when referees and assistants are human is unrealistic. VAR is there to draw attention to "clear and obvious" errors in rule interpretation. Nothing that occurred on that pitch was a "clear and obvious" error. Yes, on another day, with a different ref, Saudi Sportswashing Machine get carded early doors and have to reign it in a bit. They didn't and we just need to deal with it rather than pretend we got unfairly defeated like a set of bit**es

 

[Muttley]

You don't get favourable decisions for supporting refs whilst things are going your way, it just doesn't work that way.

It seems like you're asking Ange to do a complete about turn on his stance, suggesting that it was all performative in the hope of gaining advantage. I don't think he is that calculated, but is understandly moody at the moment.

It's an unpopular view on here but I don't think the refereeing was that bad. I was surprised about the lack of handball for Joelinton, but that's on me for not understanding the law well enough.

I'll tell you my challenge. I don't like gas-lighting, and there has been tons of it from people like Klopp towards the referees. That is why I would rather the club be non-emotional and just issue that vote of no confidence on PGMOL. Make it very fact based. I would rather Ange challenged them based on the laws of the game. I would rather the pundits in the studio worked from this basis as well. They don't.

Madley couldn't defend his performance at the weekend if I sat with him and we watched the game with the laws as our reference. He changed the outcome of the game that never should be finishing with 11 vs 11. One on one with me, he would have nowhere to hide.

 

[Kompakted]

I'll tell you my challenge. I don't like gas-lighting, and there has been tons of it from people like Klopp towards the referees. That is why I would rather the club be non-emotional and just issue that vote of no confidence on PGMOL. Make it very fact based. I would rather Ange challenged them based on the laws of the game. I would rather the pundits in the studio worked from this basis as well. They don't.

Madley couldn't defend his performance at the weekend if I sat with him and we watched the game with the laws as our reference. He changed the outcome of the game that never should be finishing with 11 vs 11. One on one with me, he would have nowhere to hide.

You can't say it wouldn't have finished 11 v 11 as Saudi Sportswashing Machine likely reign it in if they get a card early doors. You can argue that an early yellow changes the dynamic of the game in terms of its physicality but you can't say it would change our sloppiness in the first half or our poor finishing/end product in the second.