Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

[Pirate55]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Just for the fun of it to play your game - can you give me definitive assurances that we will not?

The point of my post, which still no one has answered, is to provide any evidence that anyone has seen of ANY improvement in ANY area whatsoever?

 

[Robspur12]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Great post.

Sorry no it's not. If we stick with the wrong manager it will be a disaster. Fans make it sound like appointing the right person for a club with our resources and recent history is easy. Remember we are appointing managers who we want to improve us - with our resources and lack of success on the football pitch it is very difficult to get that right. There are a whole swathe of top managers who are out of our league. Personally I don't think there is a better chairman than LEVY but one of the areas he does not excel in is predicting what will happen in the future. He takes risks on managers he thinks will improve the football club. Mostly they have. But it is far easier to spot a manager who has come to the end of their time. I agree with Pirate's post above in fact I said the same thing in the get rid of AVB thread. The other thing you need when appointing trying to appoint the right person is LUCK. I don't think Spurs get a lot of that.

 

[NWND]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

'Twas a great post indeed, and it brings up a good point. This could very well be a painful season for us, certainly a painful next few months. That is the consequence of Bale deciding he didn't want to be here anymore and forcing us to strengthen, with entirely young or non English speaking players from abroad.

We could decide to jack it all in despite the fact that I don't think any other club has undertaken such a project of purely young players and tried to integrate them all in such a short space of time. Chelsea and Emirates Marketing Project have signed a lot of experienced winners, and in City's case it took them a few years before they made a real challenge.

Now, all these young players are going through the same transitional phase in their lives together. They will fail together. But they will also succeed together once they settle. I think the club is fully behind this from board down to players and they must have all acknowledged that doing something like this wouldn't be easy. We haven't made dud signings. There is not one player that I was underwhelmed with that we signed. They are quality. They will get better. If we sack the manager they would likely only demonstrate the improvements they would have shown eventually anyway.

If you check the 'how long will we take to gel' thread, I was stupid and got it massively wrong. I thought we would gel in a couple of weeks because DOF and head coach were on the same page and all players were signed for a purpose. But I massively underestimated the scale of change we were undertaking and how difficult that would be.

I'm prepared for a tough season this time around. Whatever happens I'm backing the manager. However if next year we have largely the same squad I will be demanding him out if a year older and wiser these players look no closer to performing to their level.

Why should it be a tough season? Only Eriksen and Lamela are very young and especially in Eriksen's case both are very experienced for their age. We're only playing Soldado and Paulinho regularly - I'm sorry this doesn't wash for me and it clearly won't wash for Levy and the board either. AVB has publically admitted the target is top 4 THIS season.

We have the quality to achieve that and the quality not to be utterly humiliated in games.

There are more problems I see with selection, tactics and style than I see with players adapting.

Ok, so Lamela, Eriksen, Paulinho are either young and new, but that doesn't stop them from even attempting forward through-balls or tricks, or making forward runs!

 

[paxtonwolf]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

The point of my post, which still no one has answered, is to provide any evidence that anyone has seen of ANY improvement in ANY area whatsoever?

I'm not an AVB fan,but I've got one... penalty taking, including the shoot-out and the Espanyol friendly we;ve converted 12 of our last 13. Never been known...hope that hasnt put the mockers on our next one now

 

[africanspurs]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

So his second year is a transitional year again? or shall we call it a 'bedding in period'?

What if we lose a very good player in the summer again...shall we write of his third year and maybe we can judge his 4th season? but then again if we lose a good player again in the 4th season it will have to be the 5th season we start judging him?

good point. KD does have a genuine point

the thing is that if we do well, avb is a hero, if we do badly then all the excuses come out. its like he doesnt get to be held accountable

next season we will lose at least one of lloris , sandor , verts, dembele, townsend, soldado even, and probably lamela

transitional season, the next year we lose another....transitional season

here is the real kicker...if we dont lose any of those players but we actually strengthen alot..as in buy a lot of good players.....guess what?

go on take a guess KD

at some point someone needs to be held accountable.

having said that, now isnt the time....we are only 4 points off of second....things are not that bad yet. And i believe that AVB has quite a bit of ideas that he is yet regularly to employ

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

So his second year is a transitional year again? or shall we call it a 'bedding in period'?

What if we lose a very good player in the summer again...shall we write of his third year and maybe we can judge his 4th season? but then again if we lose a good player again in the 4th season it will have to be the 5th season we start judging him?

If we don't get top 4 this seaon then Lloris and Vertonghen will almost certainly go. Last year it was valid as we did lose a number of players (although VDV was AVB's decision IMO), this season we have lost 1 player and replaced him with 7. If we hadn't spent the money then I would 100% agree with all those saying this season is another transitional season, but that shouldn't be the case. Bumpy first few games? Possibly first half of the season? Absolutely, but we should still be finishing around 5th at worst this season.

 

[Robspur12]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

good point. KD does have a genuine point

the thing is that if we do well, avb is a hero, if we do badly then all the excuses come out. its like he doesnt get to be held accountable

next season we will lose at least one of lloris , sandor , verts, dembele, townsend, soldado even, and probably lamela

transitional season, the next year we lose another....transitional season

here is the real kicker...if we dont lose any of those players but we actually strengthen alot..as in buy a lot of good players.....guess what?

go on take a guess KD

at some point someone needs to be held accountable.

having said that, now isnt the time....we are only 4 points off of second....things are not that bad yet. And i believe that AVB has quite a bit of ideas that he is yet regularly to employ

How do you know that? Where is the evidence? I just want someone to give me something tangible other than "grand plans" or suppositions or "there is no one else available." I really want to believe he can turn this season around but I just cannot see any evidence

 

[Pirate55]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

good point. KD does have a genuine point

the thing is that if we do well, avb is a hero, if we do badly then all the excuses come out. its like he doesnt get to be held accountable

next season we will lose at least one of lloris , sandor , verts, dembele, townsend, soldado even, and probably lamela

transitional season, the next year we lose another....transitional season

here is the real kicker...if we dont lose any of those players but we actually strengthen alot..as in buy a lot of good players.....guess what?

go on take a guess KD

at some point someone needs to be held accountable.

having said that, now isnt the time....we are only 4 points off of second....things are not that bad yet. Andi believe that AVB has quite a bit of ideas that he is yet regularly to employ

I hope so too, but why haven't we seen them yet?

 

[africanspurs]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

[/B]


How do you know that? Where is the evidence? I just want someone to give me something tangible other than "grand plans" or suppositions or "there is no one else available." I really want to believe he can turn this season around but I just cannot see any evidence

lets start from the obvious bit

do you think that there is anything out there on the pitch that is happening that we see but AVB doesnt see?

is there any solution that we can think of that he hasnt considered?

is there a possibility that he can better dissect and understand the systems of other professional coaches better than we can?

you see where i am going here? there is NO WAY, just pure common sense that he doesnt have the knowledge to fix this and that he doesnt have the players to fix it

notice that against city before the onslaught..we were looking a pretty decent unit going forward. then it all happened

i've said alot about the guy, am happy alot of people arent being taken in just by the hype and quite frankly propaganda and baseless bull **** certain acolytes try to force down our throats.....but damn man....even i know that city game was a blip. a complete anomaly.

i doubt it will happen again anytime soon.......and its normally those games that makes drastic changes happen

like i said....up until the city game i think AVB showed what he wanted to show.......i think the city game was probably going to be the next phASE of everything. but 13 seconds in put paid to that

 

[kanoute16]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Just for the fun of it to play your game - can you give me definitive assurances that we will not?

OK

we're not scoring home or away

we're not getting behind teams

we're barely creating chances

we just got tonked

avb looked like he was gonna cry at the end of the match on sunday

paulinho isn't playing well

it doesn't matter who is upfront they barely get a chance to score

its boring, aimless, predictable

the team selections are weird

thats all for now

 

[Pirate55]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

lets start from the obvious bit

do you think that there is anything out there on the pitch that is happening that we see but AVB doesnt see?

is there any solution that we can think of that he hasnt considered?

is there a possibility that he can better dissect and understand the systems of other professional coaches better than we can?

you see where i am going here? there is NO WAY, just pure common sense that he doesnt have the knowledge to fix this and that he doesnt have the players to fix it

notice that against city before the onslaught..we were looking a pretty decent unit going forward. then it all happened

i've said alot about the guy, am happy alot of people arent being taken in just by the hype and quite frankly propaganda and baseless bull **** certain acolytes try to force down our throats.....but damn man....even i know that city game was a blip. a complete anomaly.

i doubt it will happen again anytime soon.......and its normally those games that makes drastic changes happen

like i said....up until the city game i think AVB showed what he wanted to show.......i think the city game was probably going to be the next phASE of everything. but 13 seconds in put paid to that

Don't know where you get your blind faith from that AVB is the all seeing, all knowing one, but I would love some of those pills!

 

[kanoute16]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Seriously though, one goal in 5 prem games is not a great sign is it? Let's not make light of this, we have a problem here and with a 3rd of the season gone it doesn't look like changing any time soon. I need to see more than, "we shoulda scored" - we are not scoring though are we?

 

[Robspur12]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Sorry Affy your post doesn't convince me. AVB knows more than me - he's done his coaching badges for a start! But then so do all PL managers now and before. Doesn't mean they can arrest a slide. He's tried different players, in different formations what if he just does not have the experience or the skill set. Sunday was not a blip but rather the culmination of a number of poor performances. I thought NWND put it well when he compared AVB to Pellegrini. You can see where Pelegrini wants to be and you can accept a few ricks along the way. I can't tell what AVB is trying to do.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

So his second year is a transitional year again? or shall we call it a 'bedding in period'?

What if we lose a very good player in the summer again...shall we write of his third year and maybe we can judge his 4th season? but then again if we lose a good player again in the 4th season it will have to be the 5th season we start judging him?

As I've said, if we have a largely similar squad next year and we aren't showing clear improvement, I'd be wanting him gone within say, 6-10 games.

But other than that, it depends on how drastic the shake up of the squad is. I can't see us being overly reliant on one player this year and I think the idea will be in the future if we lose one good player, they can be replaced quite easily. It then depends on how we replace them. Is it with a similar quality player, already settled in this country? Or is it with a younger player with potential? Are we replacing one key player, or 3? Or 7?

As annoying as it must be for you, I think this year is a bit of a reset in that the change of squad was so drastic. People say that not all the signings have been playing, but they'll then also say 'but he's spent 100 million!'. Can't have it both ways. We lost a player worth 86 million to us, and we've been actually using regularly about 40 million of new talent. The rest has either been injured or not able to have a run of games yet, and have come from foreign leagues.

Next year though, if the squad change is less, I will be a lot more demanding of the manager. And I say this as probably the biggest AVB fanboy on here.

 

[kanoute16]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

lets start from the obvious bit

do you think that there is anything out there on the pitch that is happening that we see but AVB doesnt see?

is there any solution that we can think of that he hasnt considered?

is there a possibility that he can better dissect and understand the systems of other professional coaches better than we can?

you see where i am going here? there is NO WAY, just pure common sense that he doesnt have the knowledge to fix this and that he doesnt have the players to fix it

notice that against city before the onslaught..we were looking a pretty decent unit going forward. then it all happened

i've said alot about the guy, am happy alot of people arent being taken in just by the hype and quite frankly propaganda and baseless bull **** certain acolytes try to force down our throats.....but damn man....even i know that city game was a blip. a complete anomaly.

i doubt it will happen again anytime soon.......and its normally those games that makes drastic changes happen

like i said....up until the city game i think AVB showed what he wanted to show.......i think the city game was probably going to be the next phASE of everything. but 13 seconds in put paid to that

But the question is why are we unable to create clear chances 12 games into the season?
If he sees the problem why is it taking so long to fix it?
I keep hearing about the possession game. Were we not keeping possession before? Why compromise the essence of football-scoring, for possession?
Shouldn't possession lead to at the very least chances? Are we creating chances? - no, not really, not many guilt edged ones.
OK 6-0 may be a one off but the nil bit isn't is it?

I would still have said the above if it was 1-0. I don't care about conceding 6, it's the lack of pace, movement and general ability to outfox that worries me.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

The point of my post, which still no one has answered, is to provide any evidence that anyone has seen of ANY improvement in ANY area whatsoever?

Defence. Before this last game we had the best record. You can't take that away from us by using a freak anomaly to prove your point.

We are playing with a lot more control. The fact that we are so clearly struggling, and it is so clearly a certain aspect of our play that we can't carry off well shows me that we are getting there in terms of playing to a system, and that will stand us in good stead for the future.

 

[kanoute16]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Defence. Before this last game we had the best record. You can't take that away from us by using a freak anomaly to prove your point.

We are playing with a lot more control. The fact that we are so clearly struggling, and it is so clearly a certain aspect of our play that we can't carry off well shows me that we are getting there in terms of playing to a system, and that will stand us in good stead for the future.

Control that leads to....no goals though! Were we out of control before? From what I saw we lost out on 4th because of a bad back pass at Anfield and poor tactics at the san siro that lead to losing to mediocre Fulham. There was no lack of control!

I really can't understand your point here!

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Sorry no it's not. If we stick with the wrong manager it will be a disaster. Fans make it sound like appointing the right person for a club with our resources and recent history is easy. Remember we are appointing managers who we want to improve us - with our resources and lack of success on the football pitch it is very difficult to get that right. There are a whole swathe of top managers who are out of our league. Personally I don't think there is a better chairman than LEVY but one of the areas he does not excel in is predicting what will happen in the future. He takes risks on managers he thinks will improve the football club. Mostly they have. But it is far easier to spot a manager who has come to the end of their time. I agree with Pirate's post above in fact I said the same thing in the get rid of AVB thread. The other thing you need when appointing trying to appoint the right person is LUCK. I don't think Spurs get a lot of that.

It's 100% certain that Levy will have taken references on AVB from some of the most important people in the game. People that know him well, people that rate him, people that don't. And it's pretty clear that AVB has an excellent reputation within the game. Sacking a bad manager is imperative, but I think once you've committed to a long term project, you don't jump ship at the first sign of trouble. You sail through the stormy waters.

Levy will know if AVB can work or not. He will have done his homework on him. He is clearly sold on his ideas, his methods, his plan. It then becomes about whether the players believe it. If they don't, then Levy would look at moving him on. Until that point, I think it's great that it appears the entire club has stuck together this week. It gives me great heart. Because for our club to achieve something above and beyond the norm, we are going to have to try something radical. And to implement something radical will take time, and it will probably be messy at first. But once we get over the humps we will be all the better for it. It may mean a poor season. But AVB is no chancer, and Levy is not one to put the future of this club at risk with a chancer. Again, he will have done his homework. He has gone through some of the most painful experiences he could have with Ramos. He knows when a manager isn't up to it and when they are. And I think he also knows that no manager has a magical quick fix, and things can be going great one minute and bad the next in football. He knows that better than most other chairmen. He will back AVB a lot longer than people think.

 

[Robspur12]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

OK

we're not scoring home or away

we're not getting behind teams

we're barely creating chances

we just got tonked

avb looked like he was gonna cry at the end of the match on sunday

paulinho isn't playing well

it doesn't matter who is upfront they barely get a chance to score

its boring, aimless, predictable

the team selections are weird

thats all for now

You forgot his substitutions are often so bad that they choke off any momentum we have actually managed to build.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Why should it be a tough season? Only Eriksen and Lamela are very young and especially in Eriksen's case both are very experienced for their age. We're only playing Soldado and Paulinho regularly - I'm sorry this doesn't wash for me and it clearly won't wash for Levy and the board either. AVB has publically admitted the target is top 4 THIS season.

We have the quality to achieve that and the quality not to be utterly humiliated in games.

There are more problems I see with selection, tactics and style than I see with players adapting.

Ok, so Lamela, Eriksen, Paulinho are either young and new, but that doesn't stop them from even attempting forward through-balls or tricks, or making forward runs!

Again, it's a learning process. We are trying to get a lot of new players to adapt to a county, to get to know their team mates, and to play in a system they will likely never have played.

I don't think it's as simple as saying there is not enough forward passing. We play it forward plenty of times. I think the challenge is more finding the right times to do it. Therefore the problem could just as easily be players off the ball not quite sure enough of their movements yet in order to create space. It's about decision making, it's about carrying something off in a competitive environment against season professionals that will run through walls to prove they are as good as us. It's not going to be easy to get to where we want to be.