Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

good point. KD does have a genuine point

the thing is that if we do well, avb is a hero, if we do badly then all the excuses come out. its like he doesnt get to be held accountable

next season we will lose at least one of lloris , sandor , verts, dembele, townsend, soldado even, and probably lamela

transitional season, the next year we lose another....transitional season

here is the real kicker...if we dont lose any of those players but we actually strengthen alot..as in buy a lot of good players.....guess what?

go on take a guess KD

at some point someone needs to be held accountable.

having said that, now isnt the time....we are only 4 points off of second....things are not that bad yet. And i believe that AVB has quite a bit of ideas that he is yet regularly to employ

I'm not convinced we will lose players year on year. If we have a bad year this year, it will be the players that have under performed. We have most of our new players on long term contracts and will resist bids. Only if we are faced with world record money would we sell and I clubs won't sanction that for under performers. And if AVB is still here, it means the players back him and believe in the project, so will see a lot of value in giving it another shot. It's just not in our interest to sell after a bad season.

I would assume within the club, there is an acknowledgement from board to players that this season will be tough. If that's the case then everyone needs to stick together and not bail out because of one bad season where collectively, all players will have under performed.

 

[Modric THFC]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

ITV showing the wrong game as usual

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Control that leads to....no goals though! Were we out of control before? From what I saw we lost out on 4th because of a bad back pass at Anfield and poor tactics at the san siro that lead to losing to mediocre Fulham. There was no lack of control!

I really can't understand your point here!

Learning a style of play means you won't be firing on all cylinders straight away. So we could actually be trying to play a certain way, but because we aren't quite skilled at a certain part of it yet, it looks like something else. Do people honestly think AVB's sole strategy was to barely create anything and let Bale rescue us? I don't think there's a chance in hell that's what he planned. I think he worked our shape so Bale could get space, but he obviously would have loved more chances.

I like to use the Norwich game as an example. This is a debate about style and preferences of the manager and not quality necessarily - and in this game we had a clear style that was easy on the eye. This is what I think he wants on a consistent basis. People wonder where the faith in a greater plan comes from and aside from his reputation and the respect of people in the game, it is matches like this. It won't go down as the greatest win in history but the style was there. Our movement was excellent, it was intelligent and our passing was sure. Norwich sat back as they do but that doesn't mean we automatically play like we do - see the Hull game at home. We played a certain way and I think that is what we want on a consistent basis. If we play like that most matches we will rack up plenty of 3, 4, 5 goal wins.

 

[Modric THFC]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

It's 100% certain that Levy will have taken references on AVB from some of the most important people in the game. People that know him well, people that rate him, people that don't. And it's pretty clear that AVB has an excellent reputation within the game. Sacking a bad manager is imperative, but I think once you've committed to a long term project, you don't jump ship at the first sign of trouble. You sail through the stormy waters.

Levy will know if AVB can work or not. He will have done his homework on him. He is clearly sold on his ideas, his methods, his plan. It then becomes about whether the players believe it. If they don't, then Levy would look at moving him on. Until that point, I think it's great that it appears the entire club has stuck together this week. It gives me great heart. Because for our club to achieve something above and beyond the norm, we are going to have to try something radical. And to implement something radical will take time, and it will probably be messy at first. But once we get over the humps we will be all the better for it. It may mean a poor season. But AVB is no chancer, and Levy is not one to put the future of this club at risk with a chancer. Again, he will have done his homework. He has gone through some of the most painful experiences he could have with Ramos. He knows when a manager isn't up to it and when they are. And I think he also knows that no manager has a magical quick fix, and things can be going great one minute and bad the next in football. He knows that better than most other chairmen. He will back AVB a lot longer than people think.

Levy appointed some terrible managers that where all hype and didnt deliver. Santini and Ramos.
A managerial appointment is near enough a lottery when you're appointing a 34 year old.

And why isnt AVB a chancer?
He seems all hype and potential. It could be said he arrived at a Porto team with Moutinho, Falcao and Hullk, didnt bring in any players and made a reputation for himself off them.
He's done nothing since and is trading on that reputation.

 

[NWND]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Learning a style of play means you won't be firing on all cylinders straight away. So we could actually be trying to play a certain way, but because we aren't quite skilled at a certain part of it yet, it looks like something else. Do people honestly think AVB's sole strategy was to barely create anything and let Bale rescue us? I don't think there's a chance in hell that's what he planned. I think he worked our shape so Bale could get space, but he obviously would have loved more chances.

I like to use the Norwich game as an example. This is a debate about style and preferences of the manager and not quality necessarily - and in this game we had a clear style that was easy on the eye. This is what I think he wants on a consistent basis. People wonder where the faith in a greater plan comes from and aside from his reputation and the respect of people in the game, it is matches like this. It won't go down as the greatest win in history but the style was there. Our movement was excellent, it was intelligent and our passing was sure. Norwich sat back as they do but that doesn't mean we automatically play like we do - see the Hull game at home. We played a certain way and I think that is what we want on a consistent basis. If we play like that most matches we will rack up plenty of 3, 4, 5 goal wins.

But AVB isn't playing a certain way and sticking with it until it clicks, he changes the team all the time, 4-5-1, 4-3-3, 4-4-2, 4-4-1-1, Ade & Defoe upfront, Bale centre, upfront or right, Eriksen in the whole, Holtby in the hole, Sandro played with whoever he feels like, Defoe upfront, Sig left, Lennon left, right, Verts left, back, Naughton. AVB is in/out Shake it all about! Integration? More like massacre by indecision!

I honestly couldn't tell you what our team will be versus United and I bet AVB and the players couldn't either!

The only thing that remains consistent is the blanket use of high-pressing, high defensive line and "controlled" (slow) sideways passing in congested spaces!

Oh and our openness on the counter!

We're not learning any new style at the moment we seem to me to be re actively bouncing from week to week! Oh hello Ade, I thought you were persona non gratia but obviously as things have gone a bit tits up recently you're back in the team ! Complete turn-around! To me it just smacks of desperation!

 

[Modric THFC]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Learning a style of play means you won't be firing on all cylinders straight away. So we could actually be trying to play a certain way, but because we aren't quite skilled at a certain part of it yet, it looks like something else. Do people honestly think AVB's sole strategy was to barely create anything and let Bale rescue us? I don't think there's a chance in hell that's what he planned. I think he worked our shape so Bale could get space, but he obviously would have loved more chances.

I like to use the Norwich game as an example. This is a debate about style and preferences of the manager and not quality necessarily - and in this game we had a clear style that was easy on the eye. This is what I think he wants on a consistent basis. People wonder where the faith in a greater plan comes from and aside from his reputation and the respect of people in the game, it is matches like this. It won't go down as the greatest win in history but the style was there. Our movement was excellent, it was intelligent and our passing was sure. Norwich sat back as they do but that doesn't mean we automatically play like we do - see the Hull game at home. We played a certain way and I think that is what we want on a consistent basis. If we play like that most matches we will rack up plenty of 3, 4, 5 goal wins.

The Norwich game???
Not every team is gonna set up with a 442 against us a WHL like they did. Eriksen had so much space between the lines in that game. He ran that game. No one has given him the space in a game since.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

We're not learning any new style at the moment we seem to me to be re actively bouncing from week to week! Oh hello Ade, I thought you were persona non gratia but obviously as things have gone a bit tits up recently you're back in the team ! Complete turn-around! To me it just smacks of desperation!

id have thought Adebayor being brought back in to the first team plans would have been a good sign for those that think he's too stubborn/rigid - but no, now that he's actually done that it's a case of desperation :lol:

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

The Norwich game???
Not every team is gonna set up with a 442 against us a WHL like they did. Eriksen had so much space between the lines in that game. He ran that game. No one has given him the space in a game since.

You can be ultra defensive in a 4-4-2 and squeeze space between the lines as much as you can be more fluid in a 4-5-1.

Seriously, coming from Norwich one thing Hughton does not get praise for is playing an open team. He is constantly attacked for being negative and they tried to sit back against us. We were too good for them.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

id have thought Adebayor being brought back in to the first team plans would have been a good sign for those that think he's too stubborn/rigid - but no, now that he's actually done that it's a case of desperation :lol:

:ross: yes...which is it guys?

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

But AVB isn't playing a certain way and sticking with it until it clicks, he changes the team all the time, 4-5-1, 4-3-3, 4-4-2, 4-4-1-1, Ade & Defoe upfront, Bale centre, upfront or right, Eriksen in the whole, Holtby in the hole, Sandro played with whoever he feels like, Defoe upfront, Sig left, Lennon left, right, Verts left, back, Naughton. AVB is in/out Shake it all about! Integration? More like massacre by indecision!

I honestly couldn't tell you what our team will be versus United and I bet AVB and the players couldn't either!

The only thing that remains consistent is the blanket use of high-pressing, high defensive line and "controlled" (slow) sideways passing in congested spaces!

Oh and our openness on the counter!

We're not learning any new style at the moment we seem to me to be re actively bouncing from week to week! Oh hello Ade, I thought you were persona non gratia but obviously as things have gone a bit tits up recently you're back in the team ! Complete turn-around! To me it just smacks of desperation!

Billy's already dealt with your Ade point but all I have to say here is that changing formation does not mean you change the way you play. Neither does rotating players. We clearly have a style we are trying to play - we just aren't very good at it yet.

As for your analysis of our season so far a couple of pages back, we seemingly get credit for any game if the opposition has sat back. There is no acknowledgement on your part that it might make it more difficult for us to play good football or create chances. It seems like the team only deserves credit for winning a game or playing well if the other team has attacked us. I just don't agree with that attitude.

 

[indospurs]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I don't think Ramos was so bad, his ideas were sound but he clearly lacked the connection through good communication. Couldn't get the players on board with his ideas so they weren't playing for him. Apart from the CC semi and final. As some suggested it could be that AvB is facing that situation now.

 

[90291Spur]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I don't think Ramos was so bad, his ideas were sound but he clearly lacked the connection through good communication. Couldn't get the players on board with his ideas so they weren't playing for him. Apart from the CC semi and final. As some suggested it could be that AvB is facing that situation now.

The second bolded bit means he was bad.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

The second bolded bit means he was bad.

Just as with Gross, his ideas and changes were a bit too much for the English core of the team.

 

[King of Norway]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

lets start from the obvious bit

do you think that there is anything out there on the pitch that is happening that we see but AVB doesnt see?

is there any solution that we can think of that he hasnt considered?

is there a possibility that he can better dissect and understand the systems of other professional coaches better than we can?

you see where i am going here? there is NO WAY, just pure common sense that he doesnt have the knowledge to fix this and that he doesnt have the players to fix it

notice that against city before the onslaught..we were looking a pretty decent unit going forward. then it all happened

i've said alot about the guy, am happy alot of people arent being taken in just by the hype and quite frankly propaganda and baseless bull **** certain acolytes try to force down our throats.....but damn man....even i know that city game was a blip. a complete anomaly.

i doubt it will happen again anytime soon.......and its normally those games that makes drastic changes happen

like i said....up until the city game i think AVB showed what he wanted to show.......i think the city game was probably going to be the next phASE of everything. but 13 seconds in put paid to that

Well, AVB does seem to see us creating lots of chances in every game. He keeps saying in interviews how we are creating lots of chances, but are lacking the finishing touch. If he genuinly means that, then we really do have a problem. As everyone can see, we are not creating lots of chances (Saudi Sportswashing Machine 2nd half aside). We have a lot of shots, but when Paulinho fires 4-5 shots from 25 yards in every game, those are not chances. They are not even shots, as much as clearances.

Hopefully, AVB doesn't actually mean what he is saying, but is trying to deny to the media what everyone can see. That is strange enough in itself. I am, however, worried that he is being sincere, and that it is opinion that we are creating plenty of chances.

 

[NWND]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

id have thought Adebayor being brought back in to the first team plans would have been a good sign for those that think he's too stubborn/rigid - but no, now that he's actually done that it's a case of desperation :lol:

What I see it as, is someone that is desperately trying to find a solution, someone that thinks, "I've probably made a bit of a balls-up here" which is to be commended on AVB's part. On the other hand, it kind of flys in the face of the idea that we have been working towards an ideal plan and style all the long. AVB's thrown his plans out the window more times than I care to remember, it started with the Dawson farce!

 

[Pirate55]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Defence. Before this last game we had the best record. You can't take that away from us by using a freak anomaly to prove your point.

We are playing with a lot more control. The fact that we are so clearly struggling, and it is so clearly a certain aspect of our play that we can't carry off well shows me that we are getting there in terms of playing to a system, and that will stand us in good stead for the future.

So you are happy with the defence? Really? Even taking out the so called blip against City, we still only have a GD of 3.

We are so susceptible to the diagonal ball on the counter. Everton and Chelsea both worked this out in the second half. Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Hull and West Ham did. We conceded three at home to West Ham, got beat by Saudi Sportswashing Machine and only poor finishing by Hull prevented another defeat. Even the pub side Sherrif opened us up time and time again, both home and away, and only some dubious offside decisions, poor finishing and good saves kept us in those games.

We have only one left back, who is currently injured leaving us totally unbalanced. We either play right footers there (naughton) or play our best central defender there ( against his will) thereby destabilising the whole back four.

The amount of times we have had to rely on Lloris heroically charging off his line to save us with a last ditch desperation save (Arsnl anyone) doesn't bear thinking about.

Finally, have we kept a clean sheet against any of our main rivals for the top four? No. Asnl lost 0-1, Chelsea drew 1-1and City, lost 0-6.

Oh yes, I would say our defence is well sorted.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

what's the Dawson farce? wanting to sell him but being convinced over time by the player that he is a useful addition to the squad?

i dunno mate, it strikes me that any time AVB does something which people are actually asking of him they are still finding a way to twist it in to a negative.

 

[NWND]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Billy's already dealt with your Ade point but all I have to say here is that changing formation does not mean you change the way you play. Neither does rotating players. We clearly have a style we are trying to play - we just aren't very good at it yet.

As for your analysis of our season so far a couple of pages back, we seemingly get credit for any game if the opposition has sat back. There is no acknowledgement on your part that it might make it more difficult for us to play good football or create chances. It seems like the team only deserves credit for winning a game or playing well if the other team has attacked us. I just don't agree with that attitude.

How are we supposed to get good at a new style when the personnel and formation is completely random from week to week?

Oh and my point about teams not being interested in attacking us is that when you play a team like Crystal Palace, getting dominated possession wise against last season's 5th place team, letting us have the ball around their penalty area and nicking off with a nil nil draw is a fantastic performance for them. The fact that people point to this great defensive record against teams who never showed any interest in attacking us is laughable. Whenever teams have gone at us, we get done and look all over the place.

Domination is not passing the ball around aimlessly exactly where the other team wants then getting a flukey penalty.

Domination is constant pressure, movement and probing passes, forcing the opposition into more and more last-ditch tackles, clearances until you score, then do the same, score a few, demoralise them! Smash them all over the place!

You keep pointing to Norwich as some kind of holy-grail to be repeated. Let me, let you into a little secret, Norwich are garbage, they rocked up to WHL and offered nothing, they played an open formation with no work rate, desire, or plan. They gave us loads of space and didn't bother playing. If we were any cop we'd have sent them packing with another 7-0 hiding!

 

[Sheffield Spur]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

As I've said, if we have a largely similar squad next year and we aren't showing clear improvement, I'd be wanting him gone within say, 6-10 games.

But other than that, it depends on how drastic the shake up of the squad is. I can't see us being overly reliant on one player this year and I think the idea will be in the future if we lose one good player, they can be replaced quite easily. It then depends on how we replace them. Is it with a similar quality player, already settled in this country? Or is it with a younger player with potential? Are we replacing one key player, or 3? Or 7?

As annoying as it must be for you, I think this year is a bit of a reset in that the change of squad was so drastic. People say that not all the signings have been playing, but they'll then also say 'but he's spent 100 million!'. Can't have it both ways. We lost a player worth 86 million to us, and we've been actually using regularly about 40 million of new talent. The rest has either been injured or not able to have a run of games yet, and have come from foreign leagues.

Next year though, if the squad change is less, I will be a lot more demanding of the manager. And I say this as probably the biggest AVB fanboy on here.

Yep. I'm nodding my head in agreement to all of that.

We are going through a sea change of considerable proportions. All the new players will take time to settle in. As you say, if things are not much better this time next season with a settled squad, I will certainly not be as forgiving, or allow so much leeway.

I am as gutted as the next about recent results. With reflection, the Spammers result was worse than Emirates Marketing Project. WHUFC are ****e and they got lucky. We never got out of the starting blocks. yep, thats our fault. Krul put in an amazing shift for the Geordies; we could have put 5 or 6 past him that day but he wasn't having it. I don't think there was a lack of effort by Spurs there. Emirates Marketing Project were rampant and we got creamed, and taught a lesson. The ridiculous early goal undid us and unbalanced us. The next 3 games will show whether we can bounce back.

One thing I really cannot understand though, is the striker question.

A top striker was needed and we all knew that. Defoe is a good impact sub and a good servant to the club. But a little guy. Adebayor needs his gonads ripping off, and we should never have signed him. Easy to say with hindsight on that one though, and I guess Levy thought he was getting a 'bargain'. But we didn't get the new muscular powerhouse striker that we desperately needed. Re-signing Berbatov as a temporary stopgap may have been an answer. I thought so. Given we had got that perfect striker, it may have been enough to paper over the cracks there in the side due to bedding in of other players.

I think that the club/Board/manager thought that Soldado would be more of an instant success, and banged more goals in. He has got.... what, one in open play in the league? That's awful! We certainly over-paid for him. At 28.5 years old, £27m is for the finished article. That's why Villa would not come down on £25m for Benteke. The finished article and Premiership proven. Why would they sell their prized asset on the cheap??!! (we certainly didn't with Bale and others). Benteke was the finished article and 22! We missed out, and then bought Soldado. Quite quickly afterwards, IIRC. Was he a panic buy at an inflated price because we missed out on Benteke? I am beginning to wonder if this is the case.

If we sack AVB now, unless there are issues in the club we do not know about..... like he has lost the dressing room, we have reverted to type of the last 23 years.

Take the roof off at WHL on Sunday, Yids. Every little helps.....

 

[Pirate55]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Billy's already dealt with your Ade point but all I have to say here is that changing formation does not mean you change the way you play. Neither does rotating players. We clearly have a style we are trying to play - we just aren't very good at it yet.

As for your analysis of our season so far a couple of pages back, we seemingly get credit for any game if the opposition has sat back. There is no acknowledgement on your part that it might make it more difficult for us to play good football or create chances. It seems like the team only deserves credit for winning a game or playing well if the other team has attacked us. I just don't agree with that attitude.

Yes we can play boring, soul-less, Tika-taka style in whatever formation we play. Is that what you mean?