Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

[NWND]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

The same reason you, GB and various other posters were always the last to give Redknapp credit and the first to give him abuse/ call for him to leave when things started to go wrong. Because of personal problems with that manager from the beginning.

That doesn't mean that those personal feelings are wrong. I found Redknapp an incredibly dislikeable man. But personal biases do play a part. I also think it is very easy to dislike AVB (indeed, many neutrals seem to). His football since January 2013 has hardly been scintillating.

There's also a sense of the Emperor's new clothes with AVB. And it has nothing to do with class but everything to do with how he speaks and what he actually says. I used to have a teacher when I first moved to this country who was incredibly articulate and who would answer all of our questions. We thought the man was a genius. Then one of us realised that he was banking on us not knowing quite enough to ever challenge him and he would answer qs he had no idea about in a roundabout way to appear intelligent. Similar to what Jurgen has outlined in the workplace.

Also, I think performances are incredibly important in football. Not because I want to be entertained but because consistently playing poorly but scraping by for me is akin to going all in on 2-7 in poker and hitting a 2 and a 7. That play might have worked for you that once. It may even work for you a few more times. But in the long term, you're going to lose out. And for a while now we've been picking up points while playing poorly. And I feel like our performances are not getting any better. Some say that is the sign of a title winning team. True but not when those performances are in the majority, rather than the minority.

Anyway, I've said in quite a few threads now that our next 5 games are not at all easy. This board (and our points total/ position) may not look so pretty in a month's time. We'll see.

Brilliant post and the performances thing is spot on, I've been trying to bang on about it for ages but ultimately Bale's brilliance masked almost a season of poor to average performances last season and this season we've performed badly in all bar one or two. If anything our results/points/goals tally is much better than it should be with the easiest fixture list start I can remember for a long time. All the poor results recently have been coming and out of the next few games I'm only expecting any points out of Fulham.

 

[Hootnow]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I might not agree with everything you say, but that was a really interesting read and really interesting, thought-provoking set of counter points. Good post matey…

I think the thing I might end up being unable to forgive AVB for, regardless of everything else he does, is Soldado. The man is an excellent finisher and will score a lot of goals. In the right system. It is looking very much like we will struggle immensely to create such a system and that is if we eventually do manage to do it.

And unfortunately, through no fault of Soldado's, we need a £26 million 28 year old to hit the ground running. He certainly hasn't done that and he and the team show little sign that it is coming together in any way. I actually can't even remember him missing any chances in the last couple of games.

Part of the reason for getting rid of Redknapp and bringing someone else in (and a reason I partly agreed with if I'm honest) is that Redknapp couldn't be trusted with £80 million. That he'd buy short term players from the PL and squander what would be a unique shortfall for us. AVB needs to find a way to get Soldado chances (and we have to hope that he can actually deliver in this league even with chances) because if he doesn't, AVB have spent 1/3 of this unique chance on a short term player that didn't even work in the short term.

Let's hope it comes together.

(And just to clarify, I'm still in the AVB stay camp. Though I think at the end of the season he'll be gone either way, either fired or if he's done well enough, he'll move on to a bigger or richer club).

 

[90291Spur]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Rodgers and Martinez - my first and second choice to replace Redknapp at the time funnily enough.

I heard rumours they were also Levy's.

 

[NWND]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I think the thing I might end up being unable to forgive AVB for, regardless of everything else he does, is Soldado. The man is an excellent finisher and will score a lot of goals. In the right system. It is looking very much like we will struggle immensely to create such a system and that is if we eventually do manage to do it.

And unfortunately, through no fault of Soldado's, we need a £26 million 28 year old to hit the ground running. He certainly hasn't done that and he and the team show little sign that it is coming together in any way. I actually can't even remember him missing any chances in the last couple of games.

Part of the reason for getting rid of Redknapp and bringing someone else in (and a reason I partly agreed with if I'm honest) is that Redknapp couldn't be trusted with £80 million. That he'd buy short term players from the PL and squander what would be a unique shortfall for us. AVB needs to find a way to get Soldado chances (and we have to hope that he can actually deliver in this league even with chances) because if he doesn't, AVB have spent 1/3 of this unique chance on a short term player that didn't even work in the short term.

Let's hope it comes together.

(And just to clarify, I'm still in the AVB stay camp. Though I think at the end of the season he'll be gone either way, either fired or if he's done well enough, he'll move on to a bigger or richer club).

Another brilliant post! We've bought Soldado in and not given him anything to work with. I also in hindsight wonder if Ade's pathetic season last year wasn't because of the 'oh well he has his contract now he doesn't care' factor and more that AVB's system stifled his service and space to operate

 

[Baleforce]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I always liked Martinez but at the time I didn't think he was ready, he's proved me wrong at Everton though, doing a great job.

I still think Rodgers is a clown though, delighted he's at Liverpool.

 

[NWND]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

How many years experience do they each have in the prem? Rogers? Again, remember how many brainiacs were ****ging the **** out of him here last season…Martinez? I think we can all agree he is a fine manager and will get even better. Man Utd picked the wrong man IMO...

So what's your point, or do you just want to pick at all of my posts?

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Brilliant post and the performances thing is spot on, I've been trying to bang on about it for ages but ultimately Bale's brilliance masked almost a season of poor to average performances last season and this season we've performed badly in all bar one or two. If anything our results/points/goals tally is much better than it should be with the easiest fixture list start I can remember for a long time. All the poor results recently have been coming and out of the next few games I'm only expecting any points out of Fulham.

Emirates Marketing Project had the courtesy to show our highlights dvd from last season at the ground. I arrived at the away end of the ground just as the New Year's fixtures came on, looking back it was so plain for all to see how much we relied on Bale, I myself even denied it last season. He literally scored in every game and/or scored the winner in about 8 games in a row. And we didn't dominate any of those games either, we played well in some of them, poorly in others and average in the rest of. them.

 

[NWND]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Emirates Marketing Project had the courtesy to show our highlights dvd from last season at the ground. I arrived at the away end of the ground just as the New Year's fixtures came on, looking back it was so plain for all to see how much we relied on Bale, I myself even denied it last season. He literally scored in every game and/or scored the winner in about 8 games in a row. And we didn't dominate any of those games either, we played well in some of them, poorly in others and average in the rest of. them.

Name the great performances under AVB? First half at Old Trafford last season? Even then I was very disappointed in our second half performance in that game , we constantly gave the ball away and sat far too deep.im struggling to think of a 90 minute one, maybe Inter home in the EL last season? We haven't ever taken a team apart under AVB of even been utterly dominate from beginning to end.

 

[SteveAWOL]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

The same reason you, GB and various other posters were always the last to give Redknapp credit and the first to give him abuse/ call for him to leave when things started to go wrong. Because of personal problems with that manager from the beginning.

That doesn't mean that those personal feelings are wrong. I found Redknapp an incredibly dislikeable man. But personal biases do play a part. I also think it is very easy to dislike AVB (indeed, many neutrals seem to). His football since January 2013 has hardly been scintillating.

There's also a sense of the Emperor's new clothes with AVB. And it has nothing to do with class but everything to do with how he speaks and what he actually says. I used to have a teacher when I first moved to this country who was incredibly articulate and who would answer all of our questions. We thought the man was a genius. Then one of us realised that he was banking on us not knowing quite enough to ever challenge him and he would answer qs he had no idea about in a roundabout way to appear intelligent. Similar to what Jurgen has outlined in the workplace.

Also, I think performances are incredibly important in football. Not because I want to be entertained but because consistently playing poorly but scraping by for me is akin to going all in on 2-7 in poker and hitting a 2 and a 7. That play might have worked for you that once. It may even work for you a few more times. But in the long term, you're going to lose out. And for a while now we've been picking up points while playing poorly. And I feel like our performances are not getting any better. Some say that is the sign of a title winning team. True but not when those performances are in the majority, rather than the minority.

Anyway, I've said in quite a few threads now that our next 5 games are not at all easy. This board (and our points total/ position) may not look so pretty in a month's time. We'll see.

Good post. Hopefully AVB can turn things around and we prove to be a stepping-stone for his managerial career, not a death knell.

Rodgers and Martinez - my first and second choice to replace Redknapp at the time funnily enough.

Agreed.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Name the great performances under AVB? First half at Old Trafford last season? Even then I was very disappointed in our second half performance in that game , we constantly gave the ball away and sat far too deep.im struggling to think of a 90 minute one, maybe Inter home in the EL last season? We haven't ever taken a team apart under AVB of even been utterly dominate from beginning to end.

Good point. I remember a lot of people last season wondering why we couldn't give a good full 90 minute performance rather than just 45 minutes of one.

 

[Cochise]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Tbh before Suarez came back Liverpool did scrape a few results and looked poor, I remember watching the Villa game and they didn't impress me. Also keep in mind that while he has those players to intergrate from the transfer window, most are not playing week in week out, in fact most aren't starting. The new left back and two centre halves are getting rotated into the team but Aspas isn't and Moses is getting sub appearances. Everton have mostly the same team, same back 4 at least along with Osman, Pienarr and Mirallas. Both teams have premier league experience from front to back and although changed in ways are mostly settled. We have literally a new front 6 if u will (Paulinho, Capoue, Eriksen, Soldado, Lamela, Townsend, Chadli etc) and no left side to speak of.

I hate to defend AVB because the way we are playing right now is aweful, but I don't think the guy has had a fair crack. I do think he is to blame for some of it (selling Caulker, loaning out Ekotto) but I do also think that he and some of the players need some time. Maybe i'm being generous but I remember Sandro looking well off the pace when he first came here, and now we have another South American looking completely jaded in midfield. I remember people slating KPB when he was at Spurs and now he's a Champions League regular, Kaboul was never good enough and then we bought him back off Pompey, we can all be too quick to judge.

I say it through gritted teeth but if we are still the same come January and find ourselves sitting in the bottom 8 then we need to find another messiah because being pulled down towards the relegation spots is not something I want to think of (don't pretend like we are too good for that). If however we are still within touching distance of fourth spot then let the experiment continue. There have been passages of play in every game where we have looked good, even yesterday, the aim is to create more moments in each game like that and so long as we continue to do so we can call it progress.

And before people try to shoot me down here, yesterdays result hurt me like I was on the pitch. I'm not some fair weather fan or an AVB supporter, just another fan who wants the best for the club. Sacking him before Xmas with no suitable replacement lined up or available is not the way to go.

 

[Rorschach]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Tbh before Suarez came back Liverpool did scrape a few results and looked poor, I remember watching the Villa game and they didn't impress me. Also keep in mind that while he has those players to intergrate from the transfer window, most are not playing week in week out, in fact most aren't starting. The new left back and two centre halves are getting rotated into the team but Aspas isn't and Moses is getting sub appearances. Everton have mostly the same team, same back 4 at least along with Osman, Pienarr and Mirallas. Both teams have premier league experience from front to back and although changed in ways are mostly settled. We have literally a new front 6 if u will (Paulinho, Capoue, Eriksen, Soldado, Lamela, Townsend, Chadli etc) and no left side to speak of.

I hate to defend AVB because the way we are playing right now is aweful, but I don't think the guy has had a fair crack. I do think he is to blame for some of it (selling Caulker, loaning out Ekotto) but I do also think that he and some of the players need some time. Maybe i'm being generous but I remember Sandro looking well off the pace when he first came here, and now we have another South American looking completely jaded in midfield. I remember people slating KPB when he was at Spurs and now he's a Champions League regular, Kaboul was never good enough and then we bought him back off Pompey, we can all be too quick to judge.

I say it through gritted teeth but if we are still the same come January and find ourselves sitting in the bottom 8 then we need to find another messiah because being pulled down towards the relegation spots is not something I want to think of (don't pretend like we are too good for that). If however we are still within touching distance of fourth spot then let the experiment continue. There have been passages of play in every game where we have looked good, even yesterday, the aim is to create more moments in each game like that and so long as we continue to do so we can call it progress.

And before people try to shoot me down here, yesterdays result hurt me like I was on the pitch. I'm not some fair weather fan or an AVB supporter, just another fan who wants the best for the club. Sacking him before Xmas with no suitable replacement lined up or available is not the way to go.

Good post.

 

[Baleforce]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Name the great performances under AVB? First half at Old Trafford last season? Even then I was very disappointed in our second half performance in that game , we constantly gave the ball away and sat far too deep.im struggling to think of a 90 minute one, maybe Inter home in the EL last season? We haven't ever taken a team apart under AVB of even been utterly dominate from beginning to end.

The 2-0 win over Villa springs to mind, element of fortune with our first goal but we completely locked them up, they created one half chance in the entire game, total domination.

 

[johnola]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Is AVB a Charlatan? I mean, he got into the game as he was Bobby Robson's next door neighbour!

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Don't be so patronising, you lot have demanded an option, I've put one in the ring. I'm no expert. What I want is a team that isn't the most boring to watch in the league, that doesn't lose 3-0 to one of the worst teams in the division and 6-0 to one of the best!

I need to be given something from the manager, signs we are going in the right direction, a blue-print, good performances mixed in at the start, doing the basics right, looking a threat etc

I don't need you telling me I wouldn't give a manager a minute and what I thought of Rogers last season.

You know…for a few hours I had left up a snappy, quite rude and very brisk retort to the above.

But then I say back and thought…and you know what I thought? I thought, 'what's the ****ing point? NWND is never ever going to admit their contribution to this shi-te fest, and I'm feeding what looks to me to be pretty close to a good bit of trolling on his behalf. In fact,' i concluded with myself, 'I, too, will be nothing more than a troll should I allow it to sit there unedited.'

I thought about all those who leap about with great indignation whenever a mod dares to say anything which isn't vanilla, and I thought about all those who shout loudly whenever a mod gets too subjective.

So, NWND, you know what? I heartily apologize for questioning your persistent wisdom. You are right. You don't need telling of anything by anyone about anything. So peace brother…

p.s. glad to see you have a firm managerial target in mind. It might have taken a fair old while, plus a bit of reading, but good on ya!

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I think the thing I might end up being unable to forgive AVB for, regardless of everything else he does, is Soldado. The man is an excellent finisher and will score a lot of goals. In the right system. It is looking very much like we will struggle immensely to create such a system and that is if we eventually do manage to do it.

And unfortunately, through no fault of Soldado's, we need a £26 million 28 year old to hit the ground running. He certainly hasn't done that and he and the team show little sign that it is coming together in any way. I actually can't even remember him missing any chances in the last couple of games.

Part of the reason for getting rid of Redknapp and bringing someone else in (and a reason I partly agreed with if I'm honest) is that Redknapp couldn't be trusted with £80 million. That he'd buy short term players from the PL and squander what would be a unique shortfall for us. AVB needs to find a way to get Soldado chances (and we have to hope that he can actually deliver in this league even with chances) because if he doesn't, AVB have spent 1/3 of this unique chance on a short term player that didn't even work in the short term.

Let's hope it comes together.

(And just to clarify, I'm still in the AVB stay camp. Though I think at the end of the season he'll be gone either way, either fired or if he's done well enough, he'll move on to a bigger or richer club).

Keep 'em coming, it's refreshing to read intelligent, articulate ideas and thoughts right now...

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Gerrard has been on the decline for about 5 seasons now and He's had Suarez banned for 10 games in recent months and has still got very good results.

He is an excellent manager…Gerrard is in decline, he's old, but he's still a presence and a force that we do not have the likes of. Experience. A winner. As for Suarez, I see your point but he has been stunning since his return and has singlehandedly won Liverpool about 4 game.

 

[The Portugeezer]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Klinsmanns not available until after the summer so we either hold off sacking avb until then or replace with sherwood and freund. Levy wont keep taking these kind of performances but he will give avb time to turn it round.

That's wishful thinking isn't it? I can't see Klinsmann leaving sunny California for dreary Tottenham. Frank de Boer is a good shout.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Jan Vertonghen, take a bow.
I don't know if it's 100% true, but I like to see ranks closed, speaking up for the manager and the club, and the general display of balls!
Well done Sir!





http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/nov/25/tottenham-andre-villas-boas-vertonghen


Spurs players have no rift with André Villas-Boas, says Jan Vertonghen

• Players to blame for 'painful' 6-0 City defeat, says defender
• Manchester United visit White Hart Lane on Sunday

Jamie Jackson

The Guardian, Monday 25 November 2013 17.29 EST


Jan Vertonghen has denied there is a rift between André Villas-Boas and the Tottenham Hotspur players that might have been to blame for Sunday's 6-0 humiliation by Emirates Marketing Project at the Etihad Stadium.

Two goals each from Jesús Navas and Sergio Agüero, plus an Álvaro Negredo strike and a Sandro own-goal consigned Tottenham to their heaviest Premier League defeat since 1996.

André Villas-Boas's side crumpled from the moment Navas started the rout after only 14 seconds. Yet Vertonghen said: "If there's a problem between the players and the manager? Absolutely not. There are also no troubles between [individual] players. This [defeat] was painful. Also the way we lost. I've the feeling I want to play this game again.

"We even could have conceded more goals. This is a painful experience, but it's just a snapshot. Not everything is lost. Not only the defence was to blame, the whole organisation wasn't there. The manager tries to make the right choices. Sometimes the choices turn out to be good, sometimes not."

Vertonghen, a recognised central defender who is continuing to be played at left-back in place of the injured Danny Rose by Villas-Boas, maintains he has no problem with the decision. "That I was playing as a left-back is not important," he said. "Our left-back is still out for a few weeks, so only when he's back I will be playing in a central role again."

Despite the defeat to City, Vertonghen insists Tottenham can beat the champions, Manchester United, on Sunday at White Hart Lane, claiming the defeat was "not a big problem".

He said: "Of course we didn't play well but we are better than this. We can solve the problem. We will talk and bounce back on Sunday against Manchester United. It is a good thing we play Manchester United next [in the league]. We play at home. I know we have the support of our crowd and we can win that game on Sunday."

The defender did admit that the Spurs players were upset after their performance. "It is very disappointing. We came here for a better result than this," he said. "It is a shame we end up losing 6-0. We came here with a good motivation and for a good result. If you concede a goal after 15 seconds it is a bad thing if you want to win. We did well after that but then we conceded a second goal and it became a very difficult game for us."

Manuel Pellegrini's side have amassed 26 league goals in six games at the Etihad Stadium, with Wigan Athletic also being beaten 5-0 in the Capital One Cup and CSKA Moscow 5-2 in the Champions League there. "Emirates Marketing Project score a lot of goals at home but we gave three or four of them away too easily," said Vertonghen. "That is our own fault. They are a very strong team but I would love to play this game again next week because we are better than this. Everybody was fit. We have had the internationals but we play European games as well so that was not a problem.

"We are very disappointed. We felt we could do something here. We need to talk with the group but everybody is motivated for the rest of the games."

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Aaaaaaand then there's this…let the media wars begin!



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2513504/How-Andre-Villas-Boas-107m-Tottenham-dream-team-turning-nightmare.html