Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

[Mumorn]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

but are we? saints look just as solid as us defensively and play better football, could quite easily be top 4 contenders.

if we made CL an dthey didnt then we stand a much better chance

we will see what happens come the end of the season. They look good now but can they keep it up? I saw people make comparisons to 'this seasons west brom' - but I dont think WBA ever looked like staying for the season last year, they never looked as solid defensively or pleasing on the eye like this Saints team, but I don't think they'll challenge for top 4 all season.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

I get why people have an exit strategy every year for their favourites, but as much as i think he has done a good job overall with out team since he has arrived.....he isnt a favourite of mine. I dont want him sacked cause that would be another transition and losing another good manager unecessarily...but the lack of emotional attachement for me gives me a certain degree of clarity

the fact is that this is a billion pound industry...multi infact.
You had your first year..under the banner of your first year you are given some space to operate without much judgement....very regularly you got bailed out by the local superstar...no problem with that, you played him in a position that he had shown in the past that he was flourishing in.....but you still live under the banner that its your first season and this is why the kinks havent been ironed out

fast forward a year...you have a spent **** load of money on top international players and a youth project....but because you have upgraded your squad sooooo much you reckon you get another pass for a year under the banner of having a new squad.

errrrr.....no. you better start giving back in your second season , a season where you have spend what could well be a record for the amount actually spent on players in one off season..not net spend.....just money spent

its almost like saying that its a bad idea to improve your team cause then you can throw that year in the trash due to chemistry issues

i have to say Affy that i find it hard to imagine you holding this kind of stance with a manager at another club if they were experiencing similar circumstances. 7 new signings/losing their most important player in terms of goals/creativity blah blah... nah, don't believe you'd be saying Wenger/Fergusson/Benitez/whoever not only has to deliver but they have to improve on the previous season as well.

 

[Cochise]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D92U16u5Bdk#t=112

Our under 18s seem to have the game plan worked out.

 

[africanspurs]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

i have to say Affy that i find it hard to imagine you holding this kind of stance with a manager at another club if they were experiencing similar circumstances. 7 new signings/losing their most important player in terms of goals/creativity blah blah... nah, don't believe you'd be saying Wenger/Fergusson/Benitez/whoever not only has to deliver but they have to improve on the previous season as well.

"but they have to improve on the previous season as well"

i never said that,

but they do have to deliver and the season is NOT a write off for those people.

fergie can lose ronaldo and get on with it..arsenal seemed to be losing their best player every off season and wenger still gets on with it...and also they are held accountable if their teams dont do well

man united have lost SAF but i still expect them to challenge for the title this year. this season is not a write off, its business as usual

 

[billyiddo]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

"but they have to improve on the previous season as well"

i never said that,

but they do have to deliver and the season is NOT a write off for those people.

fergie can lose ronaldo and get on with it..arsenal seemed to be losing their best player every off season and wenger still gets on with it...and also they are held accountable if their teams dont do well

man united have lost SAF but i still expect them to challenge for the title this year. this season is not a write off, its business as usual

Edit: my mistake, apologies


what i was getting at mate is that if this was happening elsewhere - rather than write the manager off so early in to the season you'd be more inclined to argue the opposite angle

 

[Baleforce]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

also don't forget, United sold Ronaldo, but still had Rooney, Arsenal sold Fabregas, but still had RVP

you can handle it if you have other awesome players, hence why we got away with losing Berba, then Modric, Bale will hit us harder as we don't have an obvious star to step up this time around

 

[spurs' magna carter]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

also don't forget, United sold Ronaldo, but still had Rooney, Arsenal sold Fabregas, but still had RVP

you can handle it if you have other awesome players, hence why we got away with losing Berba, then Modric, Bale will hit us harder as we don't have an obvious star to step up this time around

Not completely true. Modric took a little while to shine. Wasn't really until about Feb 2009 onwards that the likes of Hansen said "At £16m the guy is an absolute bargain"

Good point made though, we will have to wait for the next star to shine having said that this time round it could be stars.

 

[Cochise]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

I think Hansen or some other pundit spoke about their system and how quick the attacking midfield players were to react to Lambert's movement, especially in the build up to the penalty. The moment he dropped, Rodriguez was already bursting into the space left behind. That sort of movement I have yet to see us create. Maybe Soldado dropping deep and people moving into his space is something we need to be looking for.

 

[90291Spur]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

also don't forget, United sold Ronaldo, but still had Rooney, Arsenal sold Fabregas, but still had RVP

you can handle it if you have other awesome players, hence why we got away with losing Berba, then Modric, Bale will hit us harder as we don't have an obvious star to step up this time around

And both Manure and Le **** had their top guy (Fergie/Whinger) at the helm for YEARS, and both teams had winning mentalities (even if all Le **** have won recently is the 4th and 3rd place trophy) in place. We have a young coach and seven new players to incorporate. That being said with what AVB has at his disposal he should be doing better in terms of goals scored and he is still too inflexible with his tactics - specifically switching Townsend (and Lennon when he's playing) to their natural sides to give us width.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

I'm not sure who I can react to in this thread, but just a GENERAL point, to compare SAF 'losing' Ronaldo and Wenger losing Fabrecash and RVP yet 'getting on with it' to AVB's situation looks good on paper but bears no close scrutiny.

What did SAF and Wenger have in common? Rephrase; how MANY things did they have in common? Tenure, age, experience and CL pedigree. I'm not saying AVB is perfect, far from it, he has much to learn, but show me a 36 year old manager who doesn't? 36 year old Fergie was cutting his teeth at St Mirren and 36 year old Wenger was cutting his teeth at Nancy-Lorraine! So on many many levels the comparison just doesn't hold up.

Again, AVB has things to learn, but it comes down to whether you believe he will learn them. I believe he will.

 

[africanspurs]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

Edit: my mistake, apologies


what i was getting at mate is that if this was happening elsewhere - rather than write the manager off so early in to the season you'd be more inclined to argue the opposite angle

but i havent written off AVB at all, i have pretty much said that whats happening now is his doing, he set us up to play a certain way and that is exactly what we are doing. We just dont score enough that way. this style isnt just a disjointed lack of team bonding thing. this is what the manager can achieve when you combine the following

manager playing style, managers tempo, quality of players, Team chemistry.

All that results in a manager that plays not to get beat and then beat someone when and only when the opportunity arises if that happens early...if it doesnt then he actively increases the pressure and the tempo.

AVB can make us a more attacking outfit if he wants to, he just doesnt want to at this point during noticeable stretches of the game. For whatever his reasons are.

but its not a paramount reason that all this is happening cause of the loss of bale and addition of new players (i'm talking about chosen style of play and lethargic and cautious approach to a match) , its a choice right now. we may not agree with it but i think he is secure in what he is doing enough so that he can feel that as long as he isnt out of the race for top 4 or the title (watch KD say that means i am talking about title) Then he doesnt have to panic...he probably has a plan for later on in the season

so i havent written him off, i am holding him primarily accountable for whats happening....

Not soldado.....
Not the size of the pitch
not danny rose
Not new players
Not the loss of bale (cause lets face it, he got points on the board BUT we still looked so disjointed and pedestrian in playing style and cohesion people had to roll out the excuse that it was his first year. bale won us games , he didnt make us play better or a more fluid unit)
Not the fans (thats is some pretty crude stuff i had to hear. Him putting blame on the fans for something that is down to him. especially on a wage of like 5 million or so a year. take some responsibility. the rest of us do)


having said all this, if i liked him i would be more inclined to argue on a more positive side you are right,
if i admired him i would also come at it from a more positive attitude. i would ask for patience, and a wait and see approach to this..i would focus on the positives.....

tough defense......
still in the race ,
hard to beat,
players to come back,
clearly intellectual manager will find a way out of this

but i dont know how i would swing or gloss over the fact that there IS a problem and thats its down to him to fix it and that its primarily of his own doing. i dont know if i would blame everything around him (including the pitch??!!. Comical stuff IMO) except him.

i would hope i wouldnt to be honest

 

[africanspurs]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

also don't forget, United sold Ronaldo, but still had Rooney, Arsenal sold Fabregas, but still had RVP

you can handle it if you have other awesome players, hence why we got away with losing Berba, then Modric, Bale will hit us harder as we don't have an obvious star to step up this time around

isnt that why we bought lamela though? and soldado? and paulinho? and capoue? and chadli? to buffer the loss of one great guy?

not to mention that we have MUCH better players than the teams that are overrunning us anyway.

okay say man united lose both Van P and Rooney right now but they replaced them with two talented up and comers...if SAF was involved do you or do you not expect them to get hammered 3-0 at home?

and you forgot to mention that wenger got on with things even after losing VAn p and nasri and fabregas. he just carries on and it doesnt affect his style of play....infact he is stubbornly known for it

bale didnt actually make us play better last year. he got us points on the board through individual brilliance and that is not what this is about.

i just dont see how losing bale is the reason for looking like, not necessarily actually being, we are clueless on how to consistently mount a varied approach in attack....or why we should even look like we are on the same level as teams we have much better players than.

does losing bale mean that teams we are already better than even without bale should come here and ride rough shot over us?

 

[africanspurs]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

And both Manure and Le **** had their top guy (Fergie/Whinger) at the helm for YEARS, and both teams had winning mentalities (even if all Le **** have won recently is the 4th and 3rd place trophy) in place. We have a young coach and seven new players to incorporate.

this is probably the only part of the quite a few of the posts i have seen that i cannot dispute at all...as an isolated ingredient this doesn't mean much to me "even new players to incorporate."..every team has to do that and they just get on with it.

BUT...

together with the rest of the post adds to an excuse you can put out there as to why AVB at this moment cant accomplish what those two can. And to be fair we shouldnt expect it of him... he isnt on their level for those reasons you mentioned

the winning mentality thing is down to manager and circumstance and form though. i think AVB has a remit to put that into the players. much like moyes makes lesser teams over achieve (please there is a whole post out there..dont jump on this moyes bit alone. i know someone is chomping at the bit lol)

 

[braineclipse]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

1. isnt that why we bought lamela though? and soldado? and paulinho? and capoue? and chadli? to buffer the loss of one great guy?

2. not to mention that we have MUCH better players than the teams that are overrunning us anyway.

okay say man united lose both Van P and Rooney right now but they replaced them with two talented up and comers...if SAF was involved do you or do you not expect them to get hammered 3-0 at home?

3. and you forgot to mention that wenger got on with things even after losing VAn p and nasri and fabregas. he just carries on and it doesnt affect his style of play....infact he is stubbornly known for it

4. bale didnt actually make us play better last year. he got us points on the board through individual brilliance and that is not what this is about.

5. i just dont see how losing bale is the reason for looking like, not necessarily actually being, we are clueless on how to consistently mount a varied approach in attack....or why we should even look like we are on the same level as teams we have much better players than.

does losing bale mean that teams we are already better than even without bale should come here and ride rough shot over us?

1. It is, but this is possibly also a reason why things take time.

2. Yes, but us getting overrun is not the norm at the moment or people's main complaint? It's the attacking, breaking down stubborn teams, no? Not getting overrun?

And the 3-0 result was also an isolated game. I wish people would make their minds up about what the real/main problem is. This starts to look like just random complaining at whatever comes to mind because of frustration more than an actual cohesive argument.

3. Well, they did have several poor starts after some of those sales didn't they? Wasn't that part of the reason why we thought we would finish ahead of them? Because after 10 games (and 20) they didn't have all that many points? This season, the first one in a long time where they haven't lost a key player, is the first one in quite a while where they've started very strongly. I'm not sure how these examples support your point.

4. I agree to some extent at least.

5. I think inconsistent is a better description than clueless myself. I thought we looked very good against both Norwich and Cardiff and we were excellent in the second half against Saudi Sportswashing Machine. There's been more bad than good in this respect (proper attacking football against smaller sides), I agree. But clueless? Not to me.

 

[africanspurs]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

I think Hansen or some other pundit spoke about their system and how quick the attacking midfield players were to react to Lambert's movement, especially in the build up to the penalty. The moment he dropped, Rodriguez was already bursting into the space left behind. That sort of movement I have yet to see us create. Maybe Soldado dropping deep and people moving into his space is something we need to be looking for.

good post, and exactly what i am referring to about positional awareness being a main issue

plus i like your post about solly probably trying to drop deep. something as basic as that i dont see him do nearly often enough...he just keeps on running behind the back line and making us a man short...very annoying. i have to say , either he or someone in the coaching staff is guiness book of records STUPID to appreciate that unless you have an intricate passer then those runs are useless to us...change up man. drop deep , get involved, hustle up (he still has to come to grips with the pace of the prem but i thought his movement and spatial awareness was on a high level so i assumed he would be able to find space around the pitch)

 

[braineclipse]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

this is probably the only part of the quite a few of the posts i have seen that i cannot dispute at all...as an isolated ingredient this doesn't mean much to me "even new players to incorporate."..every team has to do that and they just get on with it.

BUT...

together with the rest of the post adds to an excuse you can put out there as to why AVB at this moment cant accomplish what those two can. And to be fair we shouldnt expect it of him... he isnt on their level for those reasons you mentioned

the winning mentality thing is down to manager and circumstance and form though. i think AVB has a remit to put that into the players. much like moyes makes lesser teams over achieve (please there is a whole post out there..dont jump on this moyes bit alone. i know someone is chomping at the bit lol)

How long do you think that should take?

I think we know from our last couple of decades that instilling that kind of attitude is not easy. I think that the best way of getting that attitude is to sign players with the right attitude, I think we're doing that.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

I think Hansen or some other pundit spoke about their system and how quick the attacking midfield players were to react to Lambert's movement, especially in the build up to the penalty. The moment he dropped, Rodriguez was already bursting into the space left behind. That sort of movement I have yet to see us create. Maybe Soldado dropping deep and people moving into his space is something we need to be looking for.

I always felt the whole point of inverted wingers/this system was to

*get people to come inside and offer support
*allow a breaking midfielder to come through and support the attack
*see the full-backs/wing-backs supply the width to stretch teams and allow space for killer passes, etc, to Soldado


If he starts dropping deep and we wait around hoping for others to burst in there ahead of him, we'll be waiting longer for goals than we already are IMV. Unless you're speaking of Soldado dropping off slightly, which we have seen happen a few time this season and which has seen goals. For that sort of movement, we need the likes of Sigurdsson playing right in there behind him IMV. Eriksen for home games perhaps. I generally find the comments on Soldado's 'movement/lack of' baffling. In fact on Sunday, twice there were moments where I wished he hadn't been moving around so much so that he could've been on the end of two excellent deliveries!

The funny thing about all the recent activity in this thread and the creation of that other one is that it comes off the back of a second-half where we produced more chances than I can remember in one half of football (from us) this season.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

1. It is, but this is possibly also a reason why things take time.

2. Yes, but us getting overrun is not the norm at the moment or people's main complaint? It's the attacking, breaking down stubborn teams, no? Not getting overrun?

And the 3-0 result was also an isolated game. I wish people would make their minds up about what the real/main problem is. This starts to look like just random complaining at whatever comes to mind because of frustration more than an actual cohesive argument.

3. Well, they did have several poor starts after some of those sales didn't they? Wasn't that part of the reason why we thought we would finish ahead of them? Because after 10 games (and 20) they didn't have all that many points? This season, the first one in a long time where they haven't lost a key player, is the first one in quite a while where they've started very strongly. I'm not sure how these examples support your point.

4. I agree to some extent at least.

5. I think inconsistent is a better description than clueless myself. I thought we looked very good against both Norwich and Cardiff and we were excellent in the second half against Saudi Sportswashing Machine. There's been more bad than good in this respect (proper attacking football against smaller sides), I agree. But clueless? Not to me.

=D>

 

[africanspurs]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

post in bold

1. It is, but this is possibly also a reason why things take time.

not to play better it isnt, and definately not to play better against lesser sides

2. Yes, but us getting overrun is not the norm at the moment or people's main complaint? It's the attacking, breaking down stubborn teams, no? Not getting overrun?

no, it all comes down to the quality of the output. people are saying that all these things are directly and highly correlated to us losing bale and getting in new players. that would be true if we were talking about just winning games...but we are talking about how we play during a game. as mentioed....we got overrun with bale last season, we played badly with bale last season, losing bale isnt the issue ..thats the point i was trying to make there...a seperate point to cohesion. more responding to another excuse as to remove a problem thats glaring.

And the 3-0 result was also an isolated game. I wish people would make their minds up about what the real/main problem is. This starts to look like just random complaining at whatever comes to mind because of frustration more than an actual cohesive argument.

why cant people have more than one point to argue against? we are not a cohesive and fluid unit ........ and also seperate to that we shouldnt be made to look mediocre by teams we are much better than. surely thats allowed

3. Well, they did have several poor starts after some of those sales didn't they? Wasn't that part of the reason why we thought we would finish ahead of them? Because after 10 games (and 20) they didn't have all that many points? This season, the first one in a long time where they haven't lost a key player, is the first one in quite a while where they've started very strongly. I'm not sure how these examples support your point.

before you respond to the points i make underneath i want you to tell me what you think my point actually was with that....

they lose a player and they get on with things, they keep playing their game, their style never really suffers , it stays consistent through out, they may not get results but a tangible reason would be that they dont have the player to convert..but their identity is never lost

not to mention that i havent written AVB off, i know you have just come into this so you probably have missed the 4 or 5 times i have said that so i will say it again. i have NOT written AVB off, but i am holding him responsible as to whats happening so far. the poor cohesion at this moment is primarily down to him

do me one more favour, i dont want it to feel like i'm talking to a certain someone i cant ****ing shake, gets on my nerves bit that i cant phase them out or that they get involved in what i am discussing but its a free country i guess......re-read what i have said recently but come at it from an angle that isnt referring to points on the board...but playing style and whats hapening on the pitch. cause i think you're seeing league positions and points in there somewhere and i was careful not to focus on that. i dont have as much time to post as much as i used to so i would rather just be able to argue the points i do make LOL. actually i might just repost my post and ask to read it again

4. I agree to some extent at least.

5. I think inconsistent is a better description than clueless myself. I thought we looked very good against both Norwich and Cardiff and we were excellent in the second half against Saudi Sportswashing Machine. There's been more bad than good in this respect (proper attacking football against smaller sides), I agree. But clueless? Not to me.

again, the fine print gets missed.....

"i just dont see how losing bale is the reason for looking like, not necessarily actually being, we are clueless on how to consistently mount a varied approach in attack"

so what i meant to say is that this is how we LOOK, but i think we LOOK like that because of the way the players are told to go out there and perform. inconsistent would mean that they are told to go out there and attack, but just cant etc. no , i think the instruction is different away than at home..and i think at home the instruction varies from half to half...i could have called you up and told you we would look much more dangerous in the second half of that game..simply because i knew we would commit players forward...that simple. the way we are no is an active choice on the managers side to a big degree, but one tihng i wont accept is worse teams looking like they are on our level...and people trying to brush that off, no way

post in bold..am out of here mate

 

[africanspurs]

Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own

How long do you think that should take?

I think we know from our last couple of decades that instilling that kind of attitude is not easy. I think that the best way of getting that attitude is to sign players with the right attitude, I think we're doing that.

you answered it yourself. we have the players already and we should have a manager that can do that players that dont have the mentality. i dont know if AVB can do that or not to be fair and i dont know how long it takes in theory...genuine answer

again, using absolutes.......if SAF was here i wouldnt worry about that, not even from rose or people used to mediocre performances