braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Re: AVB - Making Tottenham His Own
Enjoy your day mate
From where I'm sitting our main problem at the moment is the lack of incisiveness/purpose when going forward, specifically against smaller teams and primarily against teams that sit back and defend. There are some other issues, I have had some complaints myself on specifics, but in the grander scale the main problem I think is what I've highlighted here.
I argued against your post, against that as a cohesive argument not against "the dissenters" as a cohesive unit. And I didn't say that you had written off AVB I think. I just said that I think that making points like the ones you made about being overrun, or losing 3-0 is far from the centre of the argument and I said what I think that looks like. Feel free to disagree, just my opinion and all that.
Looking at the slightly larger picture I don't see many problems apart from the one I highlighted. We're solid, we can beat anyone on our day, we're good away from home, we have a lot of good players and so on. Most teams have issues, Liverpool couldn't beat a top half team last season, City can't get results away from home this season, Chelsea are inconsistent as ****, United have shown weaknesses and so on. Our issue is one that needs improvement, but let's try to keep some perspective. And with perspective is it really right to be complaining about us being overrun by smaller teams or losing 3-0 as if it's a frequent occurrence?
Not trying to minimize the problem, it's a real one and one that needs sorting. But I disagree that some of the points being raised as explanations are just excuses or people brushing things off. You mention Arsenal, and you admire their style and the commitment Wenger has to that style. I just pointed out that this choice also has failed to deliver for them when they've been in a not too dissimilar position to where we are now and it took time. Despite them being much longer down the road with their manager and their style.
/rant.
I think we agree that it takes a long time. I think it's a bit unfair to expect AVB to have that done by now.
I get that we want to aim high as a club, but some of the comparisons being made in this thread does my head in. Whatever the topic people bring up whoever they think are the very best at that specific are and use that as a basis for comparison for AVB. Talk about making teams mentally tough, proper teams. Compare to Ferguson. Talk about teams being entertaining, compare to Wenger. Talk about teams turning around their fortunes quickly, compare to Rodgers and Pochettino (at most points last season this comparison would surely be with someone else). It's really setting AVB up to fail to continuously by making these comparisons. Who could we get that would with some certainty would come out on top even in any 2 of these categories? And then what with defensive solidity, being able to beat top teams, being good away from home and so on?
This is also true in terms of results along with style. Wenger, Rodgers and Pochettino are the one's used as comparisons all the time in this thread. Yes, those 3 have done really well so far this season. I'm guessing if we were having this argument at a similar point in the season last year those wouldn't have been used as the standard to compare AVB to. And I'm guessing if one or two of them fail to keep their teams consistent throughout this season and 10 games into the next one whereas someone else (say Moyes, Pellegrini or Mourinho) does really well those new names will be the names used in the comparisons. Consistently those currently getting the very best out of their teams is the basis for comparison, by pure chance (assuming a normal distribution) there will be 2-3 managers in that category. But to continuously compare to those and change as the fortunes of other teams change seems an impossibly high standard. No wonder then that "only" sorting out or defending, our performances away from home, our results against big teams and some of our mental problems whilst failing to get our attacking fluidity sorted looks so completely unacceptable.
(Not all of that aimed at you and your post affy, more general points)
Enjoy your day mate
From where I'm sitting our main problem at the moment is the lack of incisiveness/purpose when going forward, specifically against smaller teams and primarily against teams that sit back and defend. There are some other issues, I have had some complaints myself on specifics, but in the grander scale the main problem I think is what I've highlighted here.
I argued against your post, against that as a cohesive argument not against "the dissenters" as a cohesive unit. And I didn't say that you had written off AVB I think. I just said that I think that making points like the ones you made about being overrun, or losing 3-0 is far from the centre of the argument and I said what I think that looks like. Feel free to disagree, just my opinion and all that.
Looking at the slightly larger picture I don't see many problems apart from the one I highlighted. We're solid, we can beat anyone on our day, we're good away from home, we have a lot of good players and so on. Most teams have issues, Liverpool couldn't beat a top half team last season, City can't get results away from home this season, Chelsea are inconsistent as ****, United have shown weaknesses and so on. Our issue is one that needs improvement, but let's try to keep some perspective. And with perspective is it really right to be complaining about us being overrun by smaller teams or losing 3-0 as if it's a frequent occurrence?
Not trying to minimize the problem, it's a real one and one that needs sorting. But I disagree that some of the points being raised as explanations are just excuses or people brushing things off. You mention Arsenal, and you admire their style and the commitment Wenger has to that style. I just pointed out that this choice also has failed to deliver for them when they've been in a not too dissimilar position to where we are now and it took time. Despite them being much longer down the road with their manager and their style.
/rant.
I think we agree that it takes a long time. I think it's a bit unfair to expect AVB to have that done by now.
I get that we want to aim high as a club, but some of the comparisons being made in this thread does my head in. Whatever the topic people bring up whoever they think are the very best at that specific are and use that as a basis for comparison for AVB. Talk about making teams mentally tough, proper teams. Compare to Ferguson. Talk about teams being entertaining, compare to Wenger. Talk about teams turning around their fortunes quickly, compare to Rodgers and Pochettino (at most points last season this comparison would surely be with someone else). It's really setting AVB up to fail to continuously by making these comparisons. Who could we get that would with some certainty would come out on top even in any 2 of these categories? And then what with defensive solidity, being able to beat top teams, being good away from home and so on?
This is also true in terms of results along with style. Wenger, Rodgers and Pochettino are the one's used as comparisons all the time in this thread. Yes, those 3 have done really well so far this season. I'm guessing if we were having this argument at a similar point in the season last year those wouldn't have been used as the standard to compare AVB to. And I'm guessing if one or two of them fail to keep their teams consistent throughout this season and 10 games into the next one whereas someone else (say Moyes, Pellegrini or Mourinho) does really well those new names will be the names used in the comparisons. Consistently those currently getting the very best out of their teams is the basis for comparison, by pure chance (assuming a normal distribution) there will be 2-3 managers in that category. But to continuously compare to those and change as the fortunes of other teams change seems an impossibly high standard. No wonder then that "only" sorting out or defending, our performances away from home, our results against big teams and some of our mental problems whilst failing to get our attacking fluidity sorted looks so completely unacceptable.
(Not all of that aimed at you and your post affy, more general points)
