American politics

[Mr_B]

What makes it less of a problem there than elsewhere?




Again I'm speaking based on limited knowledge here. But my impression is that Americans are very willing to work hard. No less so than the golden time of the american dream some decades ago. But good middle class, low education, jobs are rare to find. People talk about jobs, but good jobs should be the question (Dan Carlin). It used to be that a single income could support more or less a middle class family lifestyle. Without the dad (usually) being extremely hard working or talented. How would the americans of the past deal with the current job market and financial situation in the US? I'm guessing a lot of them would have felt like they were owed something, just like they have at times in the past. Offer a current working poor and unhappy american a job where a single person makes enough to support a family living a middle class lifestyle and I have a feeling for the vast majority of them the feeling of being owed something would go away.



some very interesting points, It always amazes me how HARD people work here in the US, they thing nothing of working 60/70 hour weeks and not taking any vacation, in the US, there is no mandatory paid leave, think about that for a moment, employers don't have to give people time off, unheard of in the rest of the developed world. Kids these days though have a more global view and don't share some of the "values' of the previous generations hence the support for a
supposed "socialist" like Bernie, I was training 3 twenty somethings today and they're all fervent Bernie supporters, all 2nd generation americans too.

 

[We are Tottenham]

The Huffington Post is a bit of a left-wing douche paper, but the source of the information in that article is www.factcheck.org and they fact-check politicians of all stripes. Trump gives them a lot to work with though, because he lies constantly, hence he is a pathological liar. He is not the last bastion of truth, democracy and freedom.

I was a socialist when I was young...well I leaned to the left a bit..why I have now have one leg shorter than the other..ha ha ha..
anyway ...as I see it Democracy is socialism...where the ordinary people have a right to say what they believe...not left to the Intellectuals to tell them what they want!

The trouble is there really no real Democracy for ordinary people,,
We have the Magna Carta..America has the Constitution

you can say if what is claimed in that article is right or not. You just chose not to.

Well I may choose what is my own political slant..the problem is who's right who's wrong..you will choose how you see things.

Now I don't look at politics that closely and to be honest for me its hard to keep up with these things. I am not even on GCSE level to be honest let alone Academic!

I don't have an agenda..just thinking ..maybe a little worried these days.
Good wise people get sucked into politics plus many egoistical people . I personally don't have the retention to
argue all these facts and figures,you can then say that's s good way to get around an argument. We all do that because If on one side of the argument someone comes out with a good honest point you instinctively put a slant on it to your own way to back up your own belief or side of the political spectrum you are on.
On the note of political spectrums ..the World has changed so much so fast I sometimes think
were heading towards the rocks generally because everyone needs to sit down and be honest.
That's impossible though isn't it.?!
Take the middle east..How many times has our learned politicians come to an agreement over the years.
I have seen It, I'm old enough to have unfortunately!

Everytime they come to an agreement the whole thing starts to collapse back into too war again.

The world is a more of a dangerous place than it ever was, these day's,am I wrong?
..but it's becoming more dangerous to visit our holiday destinations and the government are telling us not to visit places that have become dangerous!
So you see the world is changing and maybe we should all be a little more on our guard.
And maybe we should listen and try to give a bit on each side.
Anyway I'm not sure if I'm 100% right just debating things

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Need to remember what Mark Twain said, something like "if voting made any changes they wouldn't let you do it" or Stalin with "those who vote decide nothing, those who count the votes decide everything"

 

[braineclipse]

Cut a couple of parts of your post to try to keep to a smaller number of topcis.

Well I may choose what is my own political slant..the problem is who's right who's wrong..you will choose how you see things.

The important part isn't what you think it's how you think. How you see things will most definitely influence what information you seek out and what you accept and reject. But knowing that you can choose to be critical of your own slants and opinions and make a little bit of an effort in terms of critical thinking and it can make quite a difference. It's not really related to education, critical thinking is a skill that can be improved by just about anyone willing to do so. Doing so is helpful in a lot of domains far removed from politics.

Everytime they come to an agreement the whole thing starts to collapse back into too war again.

The world is a more of a dangerous place than it ever was, these day's,am I wrong?
..but it's becoming more dangerous to visit our holiday destinations and the government are telling us not to visit places that have become dangerous!
So you see the world is changing and maybe we should all be a little more on our guard.
And maybe we should listen and try to give a bit on each side.
Anyway I'm not sure if I'm 100% right just debating things

How safe or dangerous the world is is certainly an ongoing discussion. Psychologist Steven Pinker wrote a massive book called "the better angels of our nature" arguing that the world is getting ever safer. It's been criticized (of course), but it's most certainly not an accepted fact that the world is becoming more a more dangerous place. And very reasonable people are making good arguments for the complete opposite conclusion. Arguments I find convincing.

Just think of the last century. Cold war, nuclear threat, Cuba crisis, massive wars, famines, disease. Don't believe the media propaganda of fear. Think of anything you've recently come across that makes the world seem dangerous and compare it to the Cuban missile crisis...

Some places are becoming more dangerous, but you can fairly safely visit the vast majority of countries in the world at the moment. You can safely travel to China, Russia, Vietnam and North Korea if you want to. Imagine doing that at various parts of the last century...

 

[braineclipse]

Need to remember what Mark Twain said, something like "if voting made any changes they wouldn't let you do it" or Stalin with "those who vote decide nothing, those who count the votes decide everything"

On the other hand, if voting didn't influence anything would "they" spend millions trying to influence how people vote?

 

[jts1882]

The Rag to riches stories in the UK and worldwide are few and far between......

And the rags to riches stories are not always what they seem. The subject of this thread is an example. In his biography he tells the story of his rise from nothing to genius billionaire. He doesn't mention the 70 million loan his father guaranteed for him. I'm sure such loan facilities would it easier for the rest of us.

The trouble is there really no real Democracy for ordinary people,,
We have the Magna Carta..America has the Constitution

The Magna Carta was a deal between the king and the nobles, about their relative rights. The little people didn't come into it.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

It's the remainder of the hard working, entrepreneurial spirit that makes me think they can overcome the immobility better than others. Certainly more so than the UK where there are 3 generation households that have never worked and never intend to.

I don't know a huge amount about the US education system but having listened to Freakonomics I've heard a lot of promising solutions that never seem to make it past the test phase. It's certainly not a spending issue as far as I can tell - in which case the state has done the bit it needs to do - maybe it should hand the rest over to a more competent structure. How do you define a well paid job? The pay for a job is surely whatever the market can cope with - if people can do your job cheaper than you can as well as you can then maybe you need to look for another job or realign your expectations from life.

It's not just the poor that feeling is unjustified in, nobody is entitled to anything.


That sounds like a bit of a circular argument there. Women have almost doubled the number of people in the labour market (having a corresponding effect on wages after an upward adjustment for the extra skills and knowledge they've brought) but people want a single wage to be enough to support the whole family. I can't see how that can ever work without the economy doubling in size plus the increases in size from population growth.

I've seen an aspect of that just in the time I've worked in my current workplace. 10 years ago, people used to queue up outside my door at 4.30 every afternoon asking for overtime - if we needed a rush job done there would always be someone there to do it and we could keep a flexible workforce. Over that time, it's got to the point now where everyone refuses to do overtime. Partly that's because of wage inflation - the minimum wage increases now have people who pick things up from one place and put them down somewhere else earning the same as some of our most skilled staff were earning. Mainly though, it's down to the fact that most of our staff have wives or girlfriends working and they don't need the money now.


The death of the class system in the UK is one of the main contributors to its downfall IMO. The class system used to provide people with something to which they could aspire - the class system was the very reason to work hard.

Gee you talk a whole load of flimflam Scara. No class system eh? So why do schools like Eton, Harrow and Winchester exist? Can you deny that these institutions are socially exclusive? What about where people live? Are not, people divided along class lines purely by post code? Okay what about representation? How many Tories are representing the fair city of Liverpool? Culturally the nation is also divided, in terms of the films and plays we watch, the newspapers and novels we read. What rubbish, the class divide is alive and well.

 

[Grays_1890]

Trump is having success, paint it how you like, ask yourself why?

Why because their are more poor in the US than those that avail of the success of the American Dream and they are being heard or hoodwinked into being heard. But its a strong message to not only the United States but the world.

People classing vote 3.9 million UKIP voters as racist as its easier than to put feet on the street and ask why.

Its like Brexit, people get told the affect on industry and economy affecting industry or listen to Alan Sugar and his barrow boy story. Does that affect everyone in the UK who see growing NHS queues as a result of under funding and over subscription? Maybe it does in a further down the system way but do these people care?

I think with Trump and Brexit you are getting a much closer look at politics in 2016, bottom up voting which is sticking the frightners up the establishment who would have you believe in stats and that a Costa Coffee opening in Halifax is a sign of better times....

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

On the other hand, if voting didn't influence anything would "they" spend millions trying to influence how people vote?

So they get their candidate in. "He's a puppet"

 

[parklane1]

Trump is having success, paint it how you like, ask yourself why?

Why because their are more poor in the US than those that avail of the success of the American Dream and they are being heard or hoodwinked into being heard. But its a strong message to not only the United States but the world.

People classing vote 3.9 million UKIP voters as racist as its easier than to put feet on the street and ask why.

Its like Brexit, people get told the affect on industry and economy affecting industry or listen to Alan Sugar and his barrow boy story. Does that affect everyone in the UK who see growing NHS queues as a result of under funding and over subscription? Maybe it does in a further down the system way but do these people care?

I think with Trump and Brexit you are getting a much closer look at politics in 2016, bottom up voting which is sticking the frightners up the establishment who would have you believe in stats and that a Costa Coffee opening in Halifax is a sign of better times....

Great post.

 

[We are Tottenham]

Som

On the other hand, if voting didn't influence anything would "they" spend millions trying to influence how people vote?

e of the greatest thinkers in the world mat disagree..so what is critical thinking ..you can tear your arguments apart to see if they add up..but still put your own slant on things.
So if say your arguments are right because I have used critical thinking..I'm always going to be right because I have a method, and I'm more Logical.
I am not so sure if that all adds up to be 100% correct. You can weigh things up by your instincts and experiences or even possibly subconsciously.
I not saying I'm right here...but it does appear you are putting your own slant on things that you need desperately..if I may say so , or your arguments will come tumbling down like a pack of cards!
On the safer world issue, you use a researchers statistic. but I know in my lifetime places not too far from the UK are not that safe these days and I am not so sure about travelling to them anymore.
Kenya, another fantastic country I had the pleasure to visit is now one of the countries advised by the government not to travel to.

I wish I had more time to discuss.
I have to go..Roger and out.. Come on you Spurs..LOL.

 

[the dza]

Who needs stats and research? Much better just to visit the odd country here and there and decide that the world isn't as safe as it used to be!

Vote Trump!

 

[Kenyan Spur]

Som

e of the greatest thinkers in the world mat disagree..so what is critical thinking ..you can tear your arguments apart to see if they add up..but still put your own slant on things.
So if say your arguments are right because I have used critical thinking..I'm always going to be right because I have a method, and I'm more Logical.
I am not so sure if that all adds up to be 100% correct. You can weigh things up by your instincts and experiences or even possibly subconsciously.
I not saying I'm right here...but it does appear you are putting your own slant on things that you need desperately..if I may say so , or your arguments will come tumbling down like a pack of cards!
On the safer world issue, you use a researchers statistic. but I know in my lifetime places not too far from the UK are not that safe these days and I am not so sure about travelling to them anymore.
Kenya, another fantastic country I had the pleasure to visit is now one of the countries advised by the government not to travel to.

I wish I had more time to discuss.
I have to go..Roger and out.. Come on you Spurs..LOL.

Thank you. Kenya is no longer on the list of the US or UK not to travel to.
Also note it was never on the the list of Germany, most of Europe, and the rest of the world.
You are all welcome

 

[the dza]

Thank you. Kenya is no longer on the list of the US or UK not to travel to.
Also note it was never on the the list of Germany, most of Europe, and the rest of the world.
You are all welcome

I lived in Kenya for about a year, my wife is Kenyan (though I met her in the UK). The only thing I didn't like was that there were far too many Arsenal fans!

 

[We are Tottenham]

Thank you. Kenya is no longer on the list of the US or UK not to travel to.
Also note it was never on the the list of Germany, most of Europe, and the rest of the world.
You are all welcome

Thanks...would love to visit again some day.

 

[We are Tottenham]

Who needs stats and research? Much better just to visit the odd country here and there and decide that the world isn't as safe as it used to be!

Vote Trump!

You have to be careful there..as you may have heard.
There are stats even more and more stats and down right lies!

 

[braineclipse]

You have to be careful there..as you may have heard.
There are stats even more and more stats and down right lies!

And that's why the name of the game is evaluation of evidence and the converging opinions of experts. On most topics someone can point to statistics or "evidence" for various points of view. But that doesn't invalidate the concept of statistics or evidence.

Unfortunately when it comes to science, critical thinking and statistics the vast majority of the population are essentially illiterate and at the mercy of tabloid journalists and advertisers.

 

[parklane1]

You have to be careful there..as you may have heard.
There are stats even more and more stats and down right lies!

Stats can mean different things to different people, usually to the point/agenda they are trying to push/prove.

 

[Jordinho]

Some of the people speaking at the Republican convention:

Businesswoman = Putting your name on something someone else came up with and manufactures.

 

[Craig_J]

Some of the people speaking at the Republican convention:

'Duck Dynasty' Star is in for a nasty shock when he finds out his beard is an inch or two long to be classed as a 'Desirable American'.