American politics

[Baleforce]

thought for the day

https://twitter.com/x/status/825198136071032832

 

[Robspur12]

Get with the program mate, you have to agree with the outraged.

Easy to be glib when you are not one of those banned or stigmatised. Innocent people, by the way, who are stuck in foreign countries because they cannot take a connecting flight through America. This is ethnic discrimination of the worse kind and will fuel anger amongst even moderate muslims. That makes no one safer, is morally indefensible and people are right to call it out.

 

[Grays_1890]

You didn't really answer the question. What could he do that would be too much? Would extending the ban indefinitely be too much? Or internment camps? Freezing assets? Expelling foreign nationals? What is scary, is that all seem possible right now.

An Iraq war would be the line for me, or the equivalent.

 

[Grays_1890]

Do those other 16 countries hold themselves up as an example to the rest of the world. If you live by saying you are home of democracy and the free, you actively enforce this on countless others you are then held up to a higher level.

I don't think that matters

 

[Grays_1890]

Easy to be glib when you are not one of those banned or stigmatised. Innocent people, by the way, who are stuck in foreign countries because they cannot take a connecting flight through America. This is ethnic discrimination of the worse kind and will fuel anger amongst even moderate muslims. That makes no one safer, is morally indefensible and people are right to call it out.

Bush invaded Iraq and off my head they killed 100,000+ innocents and the same have died again since the splinter of the country, he got a second term after that.

Trumps left a few people stuck on planes and at airports, I am afraid for it pales to whats gone before him.

People ignore that Obama was slick, great suits, charming but left the country in one of its most divisive states ever.....Trump is Obama's legacy......

History like anyone in any walk of life will judge Trump...

 

[milo]

People ignore that Obama was slick, great suits, charming but left the country in one of its most divisive states ever.....Trump is Obama's legacy......

How so? And how can that directly attributed to Obama? Do we ignore what he inherited and how the rest of the world has done in the same time? Both in the States and in Europe we are seeing the effects of the 2008 crash. The far right offer easy answers, blame minorities, but this is not what caused the current situation and it is not what will solve it either.

 

[milo]

An Iraq war would be the line for me, or the equivalent.

So how he treats minorities or immigrants in the States is not a red line? How do we define an Iraq?

 

[parklane1]

Easy to be glib when you are not one of those banned or stigmatised. Innocent people, by the way, who are stuck in foreign countries because they cannot take a connecting flight through America. This is ethnic discrimination of the worse kind and will fuel anger amongst even moderate muslims. That makes no one safer, is morally indefensible and people are right to call it out.

Not being glib mate in the slightest, it seems that whatever Trump say, does there are those who say he is wrong. Lets be honest he will not be the first president ( or the last) to have no scruples but it seems that Trump is getting it in the ear more then others. Bush was a warmonger who has ( along with Blair) far more blood on his hands ( something i have read by some on here who accuse Trump has). America has history of appointing guys who have no scruples at all, Trump is no different.

 

[Robspur12]

Bush invaded Iraq and off my head they killed 100,000+ innocents and the same have died again since the splinter of the country, he got a second term after that.

Trumps left a few people stuck on planes and at airports, I am afraid for it pales to whats gone before him.

People ignore that Obama was slick, great suits, charming but left the country in one of its most divisive states ever.....Trump is Obama's legacy......

History like anyone in any walk of life will judge Trump...

The Country was divided since the banking crisis don't put that solely on Obama's shoulders.

The symbolism of what Trump is doing will have repuccusions amongst Muslim groups who are fighting alongside us against IS, you know like the Syrian Kurds and the Iraqis.

It is not even a sensible policy for protecting America from terrorists when the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi, the Boston bombers were Chechen, and the most recent shootings were by US citizens.

 

[Grays_1890]

Not being glib mate in the slightest, it seems that whatever Trump say, does there are those who say he is wrong. Lets be honest he will not be the first president ( or the last) to have no scruples but it seems that Trump is getting it in the ear more then others. Bush was a warmonger who has ( along with Blair) far more blood on his hands ( something i have read by some on here who accuse Trump has). America has history of appoint guys who have no scruples at all.

This is spot on

People say Trumps decision on the Middle East protects his business interests, like no president has done that before.

I can't judge Trump by a new set of Trump Standards to just ignore whats gone before him, that would be stupid.

 

[Grays_1890]

So how he treats minorities or immigrants in the States is not a red line? How do we define an Iraq?

Not for its not, he wants to reel in illegals which he is entitled to do, hence the term illegals

And a country has a right to dictate who it allows in and who it does not, just go on the FCO website and read who is allowed where and when worldwide and you will see it isnt just a Trumpism....

 

[r-u-s-x01]

I don't think that matters

You lose any moral high ground. When you start lecturing China or Iran etc it means a lot less. In all future negotiations you are now on a par with a lot of countries you denounced

 

[Robspur12]

Not being glib mate in the slightest, it seems that whatever Trump say, does there are those who say he is wrong. Lets be honest he will not be the first president ( or the last) to have no scruples but it seems that Trump is getting it in the ear more then others. Bush was a warmonger who has ( along with Blair) far more blood on his hands ( something i have read by some on here who accuse Trump has). America has history of appointing guys who have no scruples at all, Trump is no different.

Maybe, so instead of learning from Bush and Blair's mistakes we go ahead and compound them? And while we are at it let's take down the sympathic western muslims too who can assist in moderating the fanatics. This is the greatest stupidity of them all because there is nothing positive attached.

 

[milo]

Not for its not, he wants to reel in illegals which he is entitled to do, hence the term illegals

And a country has a right to dictate who it allows in and who it does not, just go on the FCO website and read who is allowed where and when worldwide and you will see it isnt just a Trumpism....

The people caught by this ban are not illegals. They have gone through a lengthy and rigorous vetting process to be granted a green card. That has been pulled arbitrarily, and probably illegally, whilst people have been in mid-air. It has also impacted on thousands of legal US residents who are either stranded overseas or are now scared to leave the country unless they cannot get back home.

But I wasn't talking about just illegal immigrants or even just immigrants. Does how he treats minorities bother you or does he have a free reign on that?

 

[Robspur12]

The people caught by this ban are not illegals. They have gone through a lengthy and rigorous vetting process to be granted a green card. That has been pulled arbitrarily, and probably illegally, whilst people have been in mid-air. It has also impacted on thousands of legal US residents who are either stranded overseas or are now scared to leave the country unless they cannot get back home.

But I wasn't talking about just illegal immigrants or even just immigrants. Does how he treats minorities both you or does he have a free reign on that?

Precisely dual nationality US and UK citizens have been caught in this.

 

[parklane1]

Maybe, so instead of learning from Bush and Blair's mistakes we go ahead and compound them? And while we are at it let's take down the sympathic western muslims too who can assist in moderating the fanatics. This is the greatest stupidity of them all because there is nothing positive attached.

The thing is at the moment no one knows if he will extend or not the bans, my point is that just because some have taken a dislike of his persona does not make him any better or worse then previous leaders. Time will tell but he will not be the first ( or last) President who bricks on the world.

 

[milo]

Not being glib mate in the slightest, it seems that whatever Trump say, does there are those who say he is wrong. Lets be honest he will not be the first president ( or the last) to have no scruples but it seems that Trump is getting it in the ear more then others. Bush was a warmonger who has ( along with Blair) far more blood on his hands ( something i have read by some on here who accuse Trump has). America has history of appointing guys who have no scruples at all, Trump is no different.

He is. This weekend he appointed a white supremacist to the national security council and removed the intelligence agencies. He put his candidacy in for nomination for the 2020 election on the same day that he was inaugurated, so that non-political organisations could not campaign against him whilst he's president. Where is your line? What would he have to do for you to condemn him?

 

[Robspur12]

The thing is at the moment no one knows if he will extend or not the bans, my point is that just because some have taken a dislike of his persona does not make him any better or worse then previous leaders. Time will tell but he will not be the first ( or last) President who bricks on the world.

I don't ever recall an openly discriminatory President who plays to his voters basest fears. If you look at history, no good has come from leaders who do that.

 

[parklane1]

He is. This weekend he appointed a white supremacist to the national security council and removed the intelligence agencies. He put his candidacy in for nomination for the 2020 election on the same day that he was inaugurated, so that non-political organisations could not campaign against him whilst he's president. Where is your line? What would he have to do for you to condemn him?

Well lets say that is your opinion, there seem to be a lot of Yanks who disagree with you and support him. So are you implying that those who do support him are all racist, idiots?

 

[parklane1]

I don't ever recall an openly discriminatory President who plays to his voters basest fears. If you look at history, no good has come from leaders who do that.

Really?, it was not that long ago black people were still forced off buses, what about the Japanese/Americans who were interned during the last war. America is a great country with many great people ( many who i class as friends) but their leaders are corrupt in many ways.