All or Nothing - spoilers

[MKSpur]

Not sure I am. It was fairly miserable stuff first time around. The FA Cup exit, the hammering in Leipzig and some very poor league performances. This really was a Frankenstein's monster of a season in many ways. As I watch it again, I'm reminded of how much Jose had to deal with which made the run we're about to witness in the next episodes inevitable. The one game I'm really interested in more than any other was actually on the other side of that horrible spell. The game v Sheff Utd felt a bit like a watershed moment. I wonder what happened up there in the dressing room and am looking forward to that although it'll probably be episode 9-10.

Watching it, I know it's fairly mundane stuff really for the most part but I'm f**king enthralled by it. I wouldn't even think of watching the City one or any other club but it's Spurs and I'm glued to it. It's dawned on me watching it, for all our faults, how much I love this f**king club and always will.

Hence the masochistic element! I’d be reassured to see Jose losing his brick and the players getting angry about it, maybe discussing high level solutions with them / Levy / the coaching team about how he is going to turn it around. Totally agree with everything else you’ve said in your post, there must be a lot of interesting stuff that didn’t make the show that the people involved must be sworn to secrecy on especially with the ease in which info is shared nowadays.

 

[Raziel]

I see absolutely NOTHING wrong with what Rose did. He went straight to the point, instead of circling around the issue. There's nothing wrong with voicing your opinion. And he's bang on the point of the difficulty of performing when you only play every third week. It's not disrespectful in any way!

The issue is Rose has been awful for a very long time .. in hindsight you could argue he was only very good for a couple of seasons. It's not a position of strength, yes it would be easier to get back to form if you play more games, but you have no devine right to that, and the fact that we were willing to play people out of position instead of him should have been a reflection point for him, not just "a slap in the face as he put it"

The interesting piece is, Toby, Eriksen and Rose all were affected by Poch in the end, loss of form, didn't want to be there, perhaps confidence/self belief, the only one who took the opportunity to reset themselves was Toby (and even then, think it took quite a few games for his performance to return to par)

It really was a clusterfudge with the injuries .. how we got out of that season with 6th after that start, the form from previous year and injury pile up ..

 

[milo]

I see absolutely NOTHING wrong with what Rose did. He went straight to the point, instead of circling around the issue. There's nothing wrong with voicing your opinion. And he's bang on the point of the difficulty of performing when you only play every third week. It's not disrespectful in any way!

I think saying that he won't come in and will train at home was disrespectful, I think that he was also disrespectful of his teammates.

I don't blame him for having the conversation but his form had been very bad for a while before Mourinho came in and him being dropped was the right decision.

 

[parklane1]

The issue is Rose has been awful for a very long time .. in hindsight you could argue he was only very good for a couple of seasons. It's not a position of strength, yes it would be easier to get back to form if you play more games, but you have no devine right to that, and the fact that we were willing to play people out of position instead of him should have been a reflection point for him, not just "a slap in the face as he put it"

The interesting piece is, Toby, Eriksen and Rose all were affected by Poch in the end, loss of form, didn't want to be there, perhaps confidence/self belief, the only one who took the opportunity to reset themselves was Toby (and even then, think it took quite a few games for his performance to return to par)

It really was a clusterfudge with the injuries .. how we got out of that season with 6th after that start, the form from previous year and injury pile up ..

Yep i agree, he had a great 18 months where he looked a very good player but it soon passed and seeing as he has played over 200 games for us it was not that good. His biggest problem is his verbal diarria and the fact that we seem to have a problem moving him on shows that he IMO he is/ was overated.

 

[Junior19]

I see absolutely NOTHING wrong with what Rose did. He went straight to the point, instead of circling around the issue. There's nothing wrong with voicing your opinion. And he's bang on the point of the difficulty of performing when you only play every third week. It's not disrespectful in any way!

If he had stopped there, I'd agree with you. If he, at the end of the conversation had said something aka. "I disagree with you, Gaffer. And I'll prove you wrong. However, if you don't intend to let me, it would probably be better for all parts to find a different solution" instead of "I'll tell Daniel!" and throw his toys out of the pram.

I like Rose. But he didn't do himself any favors here.

 

[braineclipse]

I think saying that he won't come in and will train at home was disrespectful, I think that he was also disrespectful of his teammates.

I don't blame him for having the conversation but his form had been very bad for a while before Mourinho came in and him being dropped was the right decision.

Don't have the exact quote in front of me, but wasn't there something before that about just wanting Mourinho to tell him if he wasn't in his plans? If so he would just train at home.

I can see why this gets attention, but Rose is angry and disappointed I think. He's speaking his mind, and he either wants to play more or get out. I run that's fair, and him being emotional about it should be tolerated, as it seemingly was by Mourinho.

I didn't come away from watching that thinking that he was disrespectful of his teammates. He thinks he's better than the manager gives him credit for, that's to be expected.

 

[braineclipse]

Yep i agree, he had a great 18 months where he looked a very good player but it soon passed and seeing as he has played over 200 games for us it was not that good. His biggest problem is his verbal diarria and the fact that we seem to have a problem moving him on shows that he IMO he is/ was overated.

Biggest problem is that he wasn't at his best for much longer. The verbal diarrhoea would have been accepted if he was performing better.

 

[parklane1]

Biggest problem is that he wasn't at his best for much longer. The verbal diarrhoea would have been accepted if he was performing better.

i think the biggest damming for him is that no one (other clubs) seem to want to buy him, he has only just turned 30 and should have a few more years in front of him ( of course this may change before the window shuts). As i said he had a good 18 months spell but since then his form has fallen through the floor, add to that his verbal diarrhoea and i can see why other clubs seem to be concerned about buying him.

 

[DaveT316]

One thing that struck me was how much Levy was - seemingly - in the canteen mingling with all the players.

Loved the bit with Son teasing Japha about asking Levy about his contract over lunch!

 

[milo]

I didn't come away from watching that thinking that he was disrespectful of his teammates. He thinks he's better than the manager gives him credit for, that's to be expected.

It was the comment about right footed centre backs getting picked above him that I thought was disrespectful

 

[MKSpur]

I think saying that he won't come in and will train at home was disrespectful, I think that he was also disrespectful of his teammates.

I don't blame him for having the conversation but his form had been very bad for a while before Mourinho came in and him being dropped was the right decision.

As Poch said, you are paid to train for the club. I understand Rose was unhappy but I also wonder if he’s getting enough support from his agent. I’m sure if he had the opportunity to plan that conversation it would have gone a little differently. I know I’ve said things in acts of defiance and had them said to me in the workplace too, but when they are petulant or you overrate your importance to the organisation they weaken the original position you are in.
With the way that conversation played out, a little bias based on his dress sense and the snippets I’ve seen of the players in the doc, there is a feel that a lot of the players are over aged schoolboys!

 

[braineclipse]

It was the comment about right footed centre backs getting picked above him that I thought was disrespectful

I can definitely see that perspective. Though at the same time a right footed (unproven) centre back being picked ahead of him must feel like a real slap in the face, must feel disrespectful towards him. If that's the way it will be his career at Spurs would be over, not only being left out for Davies, Verthongen, potentially Sessegnon, but also right footed centre backs.

He definitely could have chosen his words differently to be more respectful, less confrontational. I think there should be room for the emotions and direct statements. He's making himself clear, if that's the way you (Mourinho) see it I want out. That's fair enough to me.

I also think it's fair enough from Mourinho.

 

[milo]

I can definitely see that perspective. Though at the same time a right footed (unproven) centre back being picked ahead of him must feel like a real slap in the face, must feel disrespectful towards him. If that's the way it will be his career at Spurs would be over, not only being left out for Davies, Verthongen, potentially Sessegnon, but also right footed centre backs.

He definitely could have chosen his words differently to be more respectful, less confrontational. I think there should be room for the emotions and direct statements. He's making himself clear, if that's the way you (Mourinho) see it I want out. That's fair enough to me.

I also think it's fair enough from Mourinho.

I can certainly understand why he was disappointed by the decision but I think that it was made on merit.

It is probably just a case of him speaking his mind but I also think that it is pretty clear that he is a little deluded about where he is in his career right now. He'd have left the club a couple of years ago if he had accepted that the top clubs don't want him.

 

[Kandi1977]

I think saying that he won't come in and will train at home was disrespectful, I think that he was also disrespectful of his teammates.

I don't blame him for having the conversation but his form had been very bad for a while before Mourinho came in and him being dropped was the right decision.

That's taken out of context @milo. If he wasn't in Mourinhos plans, he would rather stay at home and train. I think that's perfectly understandable, and not disrespectful at all. Similar the comment about speaking to Levy, my understanding of that is that he wanted to look at the options if he wasn't in the plans for Mourinho. Again, perfectly understandable, as he wants to play, and needed to play to be in contention for a place in the England squad. Nothing wrong with what Rose did. He just speaks his mind, and some (a lot) of people can't handle people that are direct, and not "political correct".

 

[harr1984]

I thought Rose articulated himself well and had a valid case. Even our other specialist LB Davies had been pretty average for quite some time, and so not not get a similar amount of opportunity as him and to even have a defender played out of position ahead of him? Perfectly within his rights to say what he did and it’s nice to see a player with that fire when not playing.....

 

[milo]

That's taken out of context @milo. If he wasn't in Mourinhos plans, he would rather stay at home and train. I think that's perfectly understandable, and not disrespectful at all. Similar the comment about speaking to Levy, my understanding of that is that he wanted to look at the options if he wasn't in the plans for Mourinho. Again, perfectly understandable, as he wants to play, and needed to play to be in contention for a place in the England squad. Nothing wrong with what Rose did. He just speaks his mind, and some (a lot) of people can't handle people that are direct, and not "political correct".

I clarified the bit that I thought was disrespectful of his team mates and that was the comment complaining about right footed centre backs getting picked above him at left back. I can understand him being tinkled off at playing but his form had been poor for a long time before Mourinho arrived and for much of that time he was a regular starter.

I can understand him wanting to play but we had been willing to let him leave for a couple of years but he had refused to join the clubs that showed an interest.

On training at home, I think that if he's picking up a wage, he should come in, train hard and try and make the manager change his mind.

 

[Robbo]

I admit, I still enjoy it. Just seen episode four, and it's an interesting insight - an edited insight, but still an insight.

So far not at all the horror show we all feared.

 

[90291Spur]

It was the comment about right footed centre backs getting picked above him that I thought was disrespectful

But Jose wants cnuts. So rose’s behavior is spot on based on that requirement. And rose was also - whether it was effective or not -trying to look after himself. The club would dump him in a heartbeat if it was good for the club. They’ve acted like utter cnuts to countless players over several regimes.
Levy even tried to put a guilt trip on eriksen about needing 20 million for him. To which eriksen said that wasn’t his problem.

I’m baffled by all the delicate flowers on here put out by rose actually having a spine. Saying to Jose that he’s real to ‘Daniel’ is fine. Daniel is THE boss.

 

[milo]

But Jose wants cnuts. So rose’s behavior is spot on based on that requirement. And rose was also - whether it was effective or not -trying to look after himself. The club would dump him in a heartbeat if it was good for the club. They’ve acted like utter cnuts to countless players over several regimes.
Levy even tried to put a guilt trip on eriksen about needing 20 million for him. To which eriksen said that wasn’t his problem.

I’m baffled by all the delicate flowers on here put out by rose actually having a spine. Saying to Jose that he’s real to ‘Daniel’ is fine. Daniel is THE boss.

I don't have a problem with Rose wanting to speak to Mourinho. I think that Mourinho may want his players to be clams but I don't think he wants them to be selfish.

 

[Raziel]

But Jose wants cnuts. So rose’s behavior is spot on based on that requirement. And rose was also - whether it was effective or not -trying to look after himself. The club would dump him in a heartbeat if it was good for the club. They’ve acted like utter cnuts to countless players over several regimes.
Levy even tried to put a guilt trip on eriksen about needing 20 million for him. To which eriksen said that wasn’t his problem.

I’m baffled by all the delicate flowers on here put out by rose actually having a spine. Saying to Jose that he’s real to ‘Daniel’ is fine. Daniel is THE boss.

Jose want clams on the field, not off it or to his teammates

- Rose was looking after himself and that's fair
- Expecting to play himself back into form by game time "just because" when his form has been absolute brick for the longest time is not fair
- Accusing his team mates of being "more brick" is also not helpful.
- Jose was clear, when he trained well, he got a game.

Someone else said it rightfully, the right answer would have been "I'm going to show you in training that you have no choice to play me, and then when you play me, I'll show you that you need to keep selecting" Instead he basically tried to pull the I deserve it and if you don't give me it, I will go to Daniel (does he really think Levy will back him over Jose?)