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Victimpool FC - Klopp leaving, grown men crying

this is bang on

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/feb/11/liverpool-kenny-dalglish-luis-suarez

Liverpool's Kenny Dalglish plays dumb to leave his dignity in tatters
Outraged by everything and ashamed of nothing, Kenny Dalglish's response over Luis Su?írez sums up the paranoia enveloping Liverpool


In the end, it was difficult to know what was the more depressing and shocking: that moment when Luis Su?írez walked past Patrice Evra, refused to shake his hand and reminded us this is a man whose brains are all in his feet, or afterwards when Kenny Dalglish tried to stare down the questions before coming up with a response that was so outlandishly flawed it made you wonder where he was storing all the qualities which we once associated with him?

What Su?írez did was callous, premeditated and dimwitted to the point that, if Liverpool had any sense, they would have condemned it on the spot and at least salvaged a semblance of dignity. Instead, they reverted to their default setting whenever Su?írez comes under scrutiny: this half-baked conspiracy that everyone is against them and that the only way to combat this is to go on the attack themselves. Outraged by everything, ashamed of nothing.

Perhaps we should be used to it by now but it was still shocking to see Dalglish, one of the giants of our game, eyeballing his interviewer and tell him that it was "bang out of order" to suggest that Su?írez had done anything even remotely wrong.

At least Sir Alex Ferguson, so aggrieved he said Su?írez should never be allowed to wear Liverpool's colours again, could step out of his own anger to acknowledge that Patrice Evra should have resisted his post-match victory dance.

This was the moment when Dalglish should have taken a deep breath and admitted that, yes, it was wrong of Su?írez, unhelpful and immature, and he would be pointing this out to his player. Instead, he played dumb. He had no idea what had happened in the fair-play handshake and, in the absence of a polygraph, Robert De Niro would have been proud of his dramatic pose.

Then he realised the questions were not going to end there and it was here the paranoia, the blind bias and pigheaded denials all merged into one.

At one point he switched the subject to blame Sky. "When we had the FA Cup tie, because there was no 24-hour news channel, nothing happened." He cited the fact there were only two bookings in this game, ignoring that there were two separate flash points when police and fluorescent-jacketed security guards had to separate the players. Most pathetically of all, there were suggestions later on it was actually Evra who withdrew his hand. It was claptrap and, wisely, nobody from Anfield dared say it on the record.

Perhaps Su?írez felt he had to corroborate the line that he has peddled all along, namely that it was all a bunch of spiteful lies on Evra's behalf. Plainly, he still maintains that calling someone "negro" during an argument is fine for a Spanish speaker, even if one of the best QCs in the country had deemed parts of his defence were "unsustainable and simply incredible". It is difficult, to be honest, to know what was going on between his ears.

"I couldn't believe it," Ferguson said. "I just could not believe it. We had a chat this morning and Patrice said: 'I'm going to shake his hand, I have nothing to be ashamed of, I'm going to keep my dignity.' And he [Su?írez] refuses. The history that club has got ÔǪ and he does that. It could have caused a riot. I was really disappointed in that guy."

Evra had grabbed Su?írez's arm to remonstrate but it was just as quickly pulled away again. Rio Ferdinand looked at Su?írez with contempt. "I lost all respect for the guy," Ferdinand said later. "After seeing what he did, I decided I couldn't shake his hand." From Danny Welbeck, there was only the briefest touch of flesh on flesh. These players had agonised this week about whether they should conform and, in the end, they decided they had to do it because the alternative would be that they kept the racism issue going. "The referee didn't know what to do," Ferguson said. "It was a terrible start to the game, a terrible atmosphere it created."

Ferguson had written in his programme notes that his "biggest regret is the way Patrice has been castigated in some quarters for standing up to racism". Now he let it all out. "For a club with their history, I'd get rid of him, I really would," he said. "Liverpool Football Club have a player banned for eight matches, and they've tried to blame Patrice Evra? It's him they should be bloody blaming. He could have cost them a European place. He is a disgrace to Liverpool Football Club. That player should not be allowed to play for Liverpool again."

When the dust settles Evra may reflect it was silly to celebrate so provocatively at the end but, by that stage, he was probably entitled to a little triumphalism. He has been abused, demonised, booed and jeered since reporting Su?írez to the referee at Anfield last October. Here was his chance to indulge in some schadenfreude and he took it, celebrating as though this were the last football match of his life.

He had been wrong, as well, to hunt out Su?írez at half-time but, for those of us in the press box, the abiding memory of that point was the clutch of former Liverpool players stood around, shaking their heads and concluding with a mixture of embarrassment and horror that Dalglish would have to remove Su?írez.

It had become clear very quickly that the Uruguayan was dangerously wound up but, seriously, was there any realistic prospect Dalglish would withdraw him? As far as the Scot is concerned, Su?írez is beyond reproach. That, quite possibly, is the most alarming thing of all.​
 
Well my brother is a Liverpool fan and he thinks Suarez should have gone through the same thing Terry is going through aswell as having the 8 match ban. He also said they should have been suspended until they were found either guilty or not guilty.

But all Liverpool fans are scum aren't they?

Mate, no-one has said all Liverpool fans are scum. Well, I haven't anyway. What I have said is that a lot of them, on RAWK, phone-ins and the ones that I know, all think that Suarez is completely innocent. This including a scouser who is usually one of the most logical people I know.

I'm sure quite a few of them are embarrassed with the conduct of their club and manager and especially their player. Unfortunately, they're not particularly vocal or visible and when they do try to make themselves heard, they're often shouted down.
 
Mate, no-one has said all Liverpool fans are scum. Well, I haven't anyway. What I have said is that a lot of them, on RAWK, phone-ins and the ones that I know, all think that Suarez is completely innocent. This including a scouser who is usually one of the most logical people I know.

I'm sure quite a few of them are embarrassed with the conduct of their club and manager and especially their player. Unfortunately, they're not particularly vocal or visible and when they do try to make themselves heard, they're often shouted down.

Most of the LFC fans I know condemn Suarez, and have done from the beginning of this "saga". Only the most stubborn will truly believe in a conspiracy, and they aren't the type of person I personally wish to engage in conversation with. Don't dig conspiracy theories. I don't care if the FA and mass media hate Suarez, and I don't care if the moon landing was fake.

The thing for Liverpool fans is that Dalglish can do no wrong. Fair enough he was a massive figure in their history. He did a lot of great things for the club, and more importantly, for the fans (attending every Hillsborough victim's funeral) When he returned, I was pleased. He was old fashioned, a legend of the game etc etc. Trouble is that now he has dug his heels in over the Suarez backing and it has gone on far too long. To accept he was wrong would be the right move, but he won't do it. The longer he denies all the accusations, and lies on camera about the handshakes, then most Liverpool fans will take the same stance
 
Even if its from the Mail, this one gets it bang on too


Comment: Dalglish is reduced to a scowling, sneering bar-room bully

By Patrick Collins

Last updated at 10:31 PM on 11th February 2012

Week upon week, the humiliation of Liverpool FC increases. And Saturday's events at Old Trafford may trigger a significant reaction from the club owners in Boston.

Once again, the usual suspects were responsible for lowering the tone, spirits and reputation of one of our greatest clubs. Luis Suarez, a dim and truculent provocateur, lived down to expectations.

After being scrupulously tried and duly convicted of racial abuse by an FA regulatory commission, there were those who believed he might reveal a touch of contrition on his first start following his return. It was a foolishly optimistic view, one which he confounded within moments of his appearance on the pitch. The refusal to shake hands with Patrice Evra was more than a slap in the face for ordinary decency, it was a shabby affirmation that no lessons have been learned, no minds changed, no attitudes reconsidered after the events which provoked his downfall.

Even by the standards of the modern game, in which certain players believe themselves far beyond the reach of those rules which govern the rest of us, this was staggering arrogance. Indeed, at a time when football finds itself struggling with racial problems which it thought it had overcome, it might have been something worse than arrogance.

Undoubtedly, he has been encouraged in his idiocy by attitudes struck by manager Kenny Dalglish.

Throughout this depressing saga, Dalglish has promoted a sense of paranoia, a feeling that the club have been hard done-by, ill-used, savagely put-upon. He has conjured the notion of a vast conspiracy directed at Liverpool, without ever explaining the logic or the motives behind such a movement.

At its most crass, it was the T-shirt worn to support Suarez, a gesture so tasteless that a football manager of even modest intelligence might have rejected it out of hand. Dalglish wore his daft little shirt as if it were a badge of martyrdom, utterly unaware of the ridiculous figure he was cutting.

Most distressing was his welcome back to Suarez, with the stubborn insistence that, of course, he should never have been away. A chance to lay the issue quietly to rest was thereby rejected, the affair was given fresh legs. His post-match interview with Sky TV yesterday showed the man at his worst. In the face of reasonable, courteous and relevant questions about the handshaking incident, he behaved like a bar-room bully: 'You're bang out of order … bit of banter ... I never saw it.'

In refusing to disown, or even criticise, his player's conduct, he allowed Sir Alex Ferguson to make his contemptuous condemnation of the miserable Suarez: 'A disgrace to Liverpool Football Club,' he called him and, of course, he is.

The rest of the nation has regarded events at Liverpool with a mixture of disdain and disappointment. This is the club of Shankly and Paisley, of St John and Keegan, of fine men and great players. It is also the club of Kenny Dalglish, a glorious player who once represented everything that was fine about his club and his adopted city.

No longer. The man is reduced to a scowling, sneering presence. Every time he opens his mouth, he seems to grow a little smaller.

The men in Boston have been remarkably patient with his handling of a protracted crisis. But patience has its limits, and one senses that they may be reaching them.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ng-sneering-bar-room-bully.html#ixzz1m7KqyCsT
 
I don't agree with Fergies comments about Suarez being a disgrace to Liverpool at all. I think Suarez is exactly the sort of man who belongs at that small, petty, backward club.
 
I cannot believe that Liverpool could stoop even lower but today they proved me wrong. It was one of the most shameless episodes I have seen, and one which should haunt Liverpool for many years. Not just the handshake, but the generally awful antics of Suarez, and the clearest evidence that 'King Kenny' has truly lost his mind. I have said before that he treats reporters disgracefully but his denials, his scowling and bullying, his defence of a player who has shamed his club and the premier league, is nothing short of obscene. How LFC can cowardly brief the press it was Evra who pulled away is absolutely incredible. The FA has to do something. The Liverpool heirarchy has to do something: about that vile creature Suarez and the ludicrous, embarrassement Dalglish who has presided over one of the sorriest episodes in English football. But am I surprised? Sadly not. Liverpool as a club are driven by paranoia. Unable to deal with their reduced, and declining status; unable to accept they are ever wrong or even open to question. There are too many examples over the years of where minor criticism or perceived slights has mobilized them like no other city in the land. Quite frankly it is now boring. The club needs to change, they need better advice and they need some humility. But with those fans, with that manager, and players like Suarez the only real hope we can have it that they slide down the league towards the bottom where - based on recent behaviour - they belong.
 
Someone I know who is a Pool fan remarked that Suarez should have punched him not ignored him. Classy fans you see.
 
Word on RAWK is that Liverpool have appointed Brian Barwick to do a review on Liverpool and the media. It could just be a look on their own channels: website and LFC TV.
 
All the disgraceful things liverpool are doing at the moment, people will take 30 years to forget. I am not sure they are aware of that. Even Hansen is ashamed. What a bunch of idiots. Dalglish and Suarez are the two biggest idiots in european football.
 
Thing is Hansen couldn't quite come to criticise Kenny, instead tried to paint him as victim. A collection of all Dalglish interviews with Sky would reveal just how nasty and absurd he has become. It is impressive feat of self-destruction by the new owners though. Hope you are right about 30years. Hope this costs them big time.
 
'That Handshake'

How many replays did they show for that fudging 'handshake' on MOTD earlier! So dramatic, including the super slow motion close shots
 
"Spurs hammering Saudi Sportswashing Machine days after we fudging out-played and out-fought them for long periods. And yet we put in that gutless, dogbrick performance today. How does that work?"

Out played? Out fought? Didn't Scott Parker win MOTM on their patch? I despise scousers;fudging vermin!!!!!!!!!
 
Didnt Hansen say "kenny let the club down"? Maybe i got it wrong.

It is quite rare for adults to be as stupid as kenny and Suarez. Is there no one at liverpool, a marketing director, a chairman, to tell them to react and behave like adults? This is such a joke now. They are becoming the shame of England without anyone stopping them.
 
Didnt Hansen say "kenny let the club down"? Maybe i got it wrong.

It is quite rare for adults to be as stupid as kenny and Suarez. Is there no one at liverpool, a marketing director, a chairman, to tell them to react and behave like adults? This is such a joke now. They are becoming the shame of England without anyone stopping them.

I believe it was him saying Suarez has let the club down because he also said he has let Kenny down and himself. But you may be right. I agree, it is a deeply troubling situation when a manager as stupid as Dalglish is able to keep behaving like he has been. Very odd. Now without question a pitiful club.
 
"Spurs hammering Saudi Sportswashing Machine days after we fudging out-played and out-fought them for long periods. And yet we put in that gutless, dogbrick performance today. How does that work?"

Out played? Out fought? Didn't Scott Parker win MOTM on their patch? I despise scousers;fudging vermin!!!!!!!!!

Lol when it comes to football matters pool fans are just funny. I feel sympathy for them more than anything. But they certainly did not out fight us, and if that is the best they can offer they really are much worse than I first thought.
 
I know a couple of liverpool fans and they are nice guys, but suddenly they are protecting their club like Kenny and all that. Maybe they dont realise anything because of the love for their club. I think its all about Dalglish. Anything he'd go or say, well they would agree. Strange. I know you can be passionate but you can also turn round and say "what we are doing is stupid". No. Instead they keep on backing this idiot.
 
Wondering how Klu Klux Kenny feels after Suarez openly defied him by not shaking Evra's hand? In the first sensible thing he's done since this whole saga started, Dalglish said there would be a handshake and the game would go on without incident. Yet in the first test to see whether either player had moved in, Suarez cracks the sulks and refuses the handshake.

Just look at his body language as well. Refusing eye contact with everyone, head bowed down.

Normally I love any opportunity for calling out Rio Ferdinand for being a nob, but I wish he'd gone further than also refusing to shake Suarez's hand. Should hav pushed him out of the line. The pre game handshake is a (manufactured?) sign of respect and after that incident, Suarez had no business being a part of it.
 
It's all a bit sad. Kenny Dalglish is a footballing great from a bygone age. Now he's just a dinosaur.
 
Defending Dalglish and Suarez on grounds of passion and love for the club are totally non-sensical. Liverpool is a 120 year old club with a fantastic history, which is all being ruined by the actions of one mercenary due to his undying support from fans and manager alike. That's not loving your club, it's destroying it.
 
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