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*** Tottenham Hotspur v Woolwich *** OMT

Answers in bold below mate...scratch that, I deleted them. You clearly feel Poch made a 'mistake' and I most certainly do not. So there's little point in the discussion. I will say you are absolutely right, Arteta came on a minute after the goal, and he made sure they pushed on and kept us deeper/nullifying our chances to get back into their half and camp as we had been for vast swathes of the game. The ref? He as giving them a lot of 50/50s. As for the Redknapp and Ramos better records, I am talking about the Premiership. Neither has as good a record in the Prem as he has against them with us (Soton days do not count). Not even fair on the other two until there's been an equal amount of league matches...

Modric THFC said:
Fair enough defend Poch. All I'm saying is if he had sat through years and years of us taking the lead in the NLD and never holding on to it he would never have taken off Lamela. Especially for Son, a player that came on thursday, didnt pressure the Anderlecht player who was giving all day to create the change they scored from.



Arteta came off and Alli went off AFTER they scored. The goal changed the game by then. We sat deeper after we got they got a boost as they naturally came at us.



There was only one booking in the whole game. Lamela really wasnt that close to getting a red. The ref wasn't giving much for anything.
And Redknapp and Ramos have still got better records against them than Poch has at the moment.
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Jurgen the German said:
I'm just giving my opinion mate. The top teams have players to dig them out of trouble even when they are playing poor. Granted we do too, but I would bet City and scum win more games than us this season when they don't necessarily deserve to more than we do. As good as Kane is for example, Aguero trumps him I'm afraid. The one thing we have in our favour is we are a young, emerging team with perhaps more room to grow and improve than Emirates Marketing Project and scum to name two teams.
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Two thoughts on that. We know that we cannot afford players like Aguero or to spend as much on fees and wages as the four richer clubs. So it seems a bit pointless moaning about it. Second thought, when we have come up against teams with big name players this season, we have out played them. Poch's squad are really coming together and you can see them grow in confidence and belief by the game.
 
milo said:
Two thoughts on that. We know that we cannot afford players like Aguero or to spend as much on fees and wages as the four richer clubs. So it seems a bit pointless moaning about it. Second thought, when we have come up against teams with big name players this season, we have out played them. Poch's squad are really coming together and you can see them grow in confidence and belief by the game.
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I think some people are still reluctant to admit it (I refer to no-one in particular, and a few people in general). It's OK. I understand fear. But IMO, if there are still doubters, they need to pay attention to what's been going on off the field as much as on it. The man is tough. He showed it last year and we discussed to death how much we liked what he was up to. Now it's clearer for all to see.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
Unfortunately history shows us they will finish the season strongly.
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Actually it doesn't

History shows that Arsenal have long periods of consistent wins. Just so happens that generally that comes in the latter half of the season. This year (not season) they have the best record of anyone. That to me is impressive but also something I don't think they will continue into next year... Hopefully I'm right

What does bug me is the way we always struggle to close out wins against them when we have taken the lead
 
Modric THFC said:
Fair enough defend Poch. All I'm saying is if he had sat through years and years of us taking the lead in the NLD and never holding on to it he would never have taken off Lamela. Especially for Son, a player that came on thursday, didnt pressure the Anderlecht player who was giving all day to create the change they scored from.

Arteta came off and Alli went off AFTER they scored. The goal changed the game by then. We sat deeper after we got they got a boost as they naturally came at us.

There was only one booking in the whole game. Lamela really wasnt that close to getting a red. The ref wasn't giving much for anything.
And Redknapp and Ramos have still got better records against them than Poch has at the moment.
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I think Lamela was looking extremely tired towards the end. I think he knew some time before he went off that he was going to get subbed at around that time. You could see him chasing lost causes just before that with what looked like his last bit of energy. I think he ran himself into the ground while on the pitch as planned and came off as planned. And that he was as effective as he was in part because he could run himself into the ground without having to conserve energy for the last 15-20 minutes of the game.

I agree that he wasn't particularly close to a red. But he was exhausted.

Looking at records against a top team over a small sample size like 3-4 games is fairly laughable. In the league we're undefeated against Arsenal over 3 games under Pochettino with 1 home win and 2 away draws. Drawing away and winning at home is about as good a record as anyone are likely to achieve against top teams. If someone else managed to better that in terms of points per game somehow, or had a better League Cup record against them I think is a pretty laughable criticism of what is clearly a very good record.
 
Weather Lamela should have been substituted or not,
We lacked depth in squad. Unfortunately ...that's modern
football...
No holding midfielder adept to replace Lamela.
..hence Poch bringing on a forward player!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Need a couple or three class signings in Winter window...lol

Daniel Levy will think were OK ..as Usual
and, bingo... our chance of Champions League or even making us
a challenge for prem top spot will go straight down
the pan.

Conclusion... We simply have to strengthen the squad.

Watch this window coming up.

Anyway..disappointing yesterday but great to hang on at the end considering all
the recent games..
Anyway forward and upward......

Come on you Spurs...
 
We are Tottenham said:
Weather Lamela should have been substituted or not,
We lacked depth in squad. Unfortunately ...that's modern
football...
No holding midfielder adept to replace Lamela.
..hence Poch bringing on a forward player!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Need a couple or three class signings in Winter window...lol

Daniel Levy will think were OK ..as Usual
and, bingo... our chance of Champions League or even making us
a challenge for prem top spot will go straight down
the pan.

Conclusion... We simply have to strengthen the squad.

Watch this window coming up.

Anyway..disappointing yesterday but great to hang on at the end considering all
the recent games..
Anyway forward and upward......

Come on you Spurs...
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We are in the position of strength we find ourselves in partly thanks to not making too many signings. Dier has been given a year to settle in and time to adapt in a position where most didn't see him being anywhere close to this good at first. There were calls for Lamela to be replaced, now he's an automatic starter. Kane got his chances in part because of us not signing another striker to replace Adebayor/Soldado 18 months ago. Mason and Bentaleb have proven themselves under Pochettino in part because we didn't sign someone that may or may not have worked out.

It's what we do. Look at some of the comments from Pocehttino in the Poch thread...

“The younger player needs faith in them and you need to translate the feeling that you believe in them. The important thing is that they need to believe that you believe because, if not, it’s nothing. If they feel that you only want to add some names in your list, this is the worst thing you can show. When they feel that you believe, but really believe in them, it gives them extra. This is the moment they can play."
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That's the trust he's put in some of our players and the trust he should continue to put in players like Bentaleb, Mason, Alli, Dier, Pritchard and perhaps even Onomah this season. They're not there to make up the numbers, we're not looking to sign 2-3 first choice players in January. They're there because Poch trusts them. They've gotten us this far and if they won't quite get us to the CL this season they will be stronger for the experience and as a club we'll again be in a position of strength next year.

We actually have very good strength in depth compared to just about every season and compared to most of the CL chasing teams.

A striker in January would be good. Doesn't have to be world class. Could easily be someone young and developing.
 
braineclipse said:
I think Lamela was looking extremely tired towards the end. I think he knew some time before he went off that he was going to get subbed at around that time. You could see him chasing lost causes just before that with what looked like his last bit of energy. I think he ran himself into the ground while on the pitch as planned and came off as planned. And that he was as effective as he was in part because he could run himself into the ground without having to conserve energy for the last 15-20 minutes of the game.

I agree that he wasn't particularly close to a red. But he was exhausted.

Looking at records against a top team over a small sample size like 3-4 games is fairly laughable. In the league we're undefeated against Arsenal over 3 games under Pochettino with 1 home win and 2 away draws. Drawing away and winning at home is about as good a record as anyone are likely to achieve against top teams. If someone else managed to better that in terms of points per game somehow, or had a better League Cup record against them I think is a pretty laughable criticism of what is clearly a very good record.
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This place makes me laugh. Before the Arsenal match the past 3 or 4 pages in this thread were basically an overwelming majority agreement that Lamela is brick at tackling. He get's booked, then immediately puts in 3 rash slide tackles that he somehow manages to time correctly but 'he wasn't particularly close to a red' so Poch should have kept him on.

He had a great game, but I was screaming at him to stop diving in post booking. Poch was absolutely right to bring him off IMO.
 
Millsy_Yiddo said:
This place makes me laugh. Before the Arsenal match the past 3 or 4 pages in this thread were basically an overwelming majority agreement that Lamela is brick at tackling. He get's booked, then immediately puts in 3 rash slide tackles that he somehow manages to time correctly but 'he wasn't particularly close to a red' so Poch should have kept him on.

He had a great game, but I was screaming at him to stop diving in post booking. Poch was absolutely right to bring him off IMO.
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I think there's a solid chance you're mistaking overwhelming majority with vocal minority. I've certainly never said that he's brick at tackling, and I imagine that those wanting him to stay on are not the same people that claimed that he's brick at tackling, though I could be wrong of course. Again it's seemingly a minority (or just one poster?) saying that Poch got it wrong by taking him off.

Poch brought him off much quite a bit later than I imagine you wanted him to? I think Poch got it just about right. Leave Lamela on as he was very effective for us, but take him off when he was running out of steam. I think as players tire decision making gets worse and he was probably more likely to step over the line and get sent off in that final 15-20 minutes than in the first part of the second half.

Lamela certainly flirted with the edge, but I don't think he disregarded it. How many times in the past have we complained about scum players that "should have been sent off" or "could have been sent off". It's part of the game when the ref allows it, as they usually do in these games. It's part of our game at the moment too, pushing those edges. You really think that the ref would have shown a second yellow for one of his tackles had he caught the man? I don't...
 
I won't rehash what most people have mentioned, but I'll just add that I am loving this team. Way back when people were asking what would constitute "progress" and I had mentioned us playing well, even if we lost the big games. Well, by golly, we're not just playing well, we're winning or almost winning the big games! And doing it week in and week out. No more flash-in-the-pan results followed by turgid performances. This team is consistent!

Regarding the game, I just want to point out that the stats don't do us justice. In addition to the chances we had that resulted in an attempt on goal, there were also numerous occasions where we were one pass away from a clear goal scoring chance. And that's the area where we need to be more clinical. But if our current progress addressing our weak areas is any indication, I'm hopeful this, too, will get sorted out as the season progresses.

COYS!!!
 
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The comments above about our squad depth I find intriguing

As Braineclipse says we now have Lamella as one of 4 players of the right quality to start in the 3 roles behind Kane (along with eriksen, son and Dembele) plus we have Njie, Chadli and Pritchard as options and of course Alli and Mason

This squad has depth and flexibility now. We're missing cover for Kane granted but that's about it IMO for now

It would be a big mistake for us to go out and buy too many players in Jan. It could upset the apple cart and take away the strengths we have as a unit
 
Well I came away from that game with a increased belief that we are on the way to be a very good side. I know its easy to slag of the Arse ( its natural) but they are a very good side and apart from City will probably finish higher then the rest.

However we controlled that game for a long period and were unlucky not to come away with all 3 points, we still have players who are not quite the finished product but as they mature they will get better and improve. As for buying players in Jan ( backup for Kane) I do not think there will be anyone better then what we have available until the summer so as long as we can get Song, Nije fit we should be good.

As I said elsewhere I have seen a few false dawns a Spurs supporter but this group of players and manager are showing a great deal of promise for the future.
 
braineclipse said:
I think there's a solid chance you're mistaking overwhelming majority with vocal minority. I've certainly never said that he's brick at tackling, and I imagine that those wanting him to stay on are not the same people that claimed that he's brick at tackling, though I could be wrong of course. Again it's seemingly a minority (or just one poster?) saying that Poch got it wrong by taking him off.

Poch brought him off much quite a bit later than I imagine you wanted him to? I think Poch got it just about right. Leave Lamela on as he was very effective for us, but take him off when he was running out of steam. I think as players tire decision making gets worse and he was probably more likely to step over the line and get sent off in that final 15-20 minutes than in the first part of the second half.

Lamela certainly flirted with the edge, but I don't think he disregarded it. How many times in the past have we complained about scum players that "should have been sent off" or "could have been sent off". It's part of the game when the ref allows it, as they usually do in these games. It's part of our game at the moment too, pushing those edges. You really think that the ref would have shown a second yellow for one of his tackles had he caught the man? I don't...
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Fair do's, I probably have jumped the gun a bit.

After the booking he made 3 great challenges. One on the keeper, one up in the far corner and one on our left wing, after the third one, I wanted him off. IIRC there was also one he mis-timed but the player jumped over it. Even though they were good challenges I wanted him off because they were a hair's breadth away from being mis-timed. This combined with the fact that he had worked so hard the entire game and was tiring made me think we need to get him off before he's sent off.

Regarding your last point, neither of us can ever possibly know, which is why I'd take him off. Would rather know I'll have 11 men on the pitch than run the risk of potentially going down to 10 men at a time when Arsenal were starting to get to grips with things.
 
braineclipse said:
I think there's a solid chance you're mistaking overwhelming majority with vocal minority. I've certainly never said that he's brick at tackling, and I imagine that those wanting him to stay on are not the same people that claimed that he's brick at tackling, though I could be wrong of course. Again it's seemingly a minority (or just one poster?) saying that Poch got it wrong by taking him off.

Poch brought him off much quite a bit later than I imagine you wanted him to? I think Poch got it just about right. Leave Lamela on as he was very effective for us, but take him off when he was running out of steam. I think as players tire decision making gets worse and he was probably more likely to step over the line and get sent off in that final 15-20 minutes than in the first part of the second half.

Lamela certainly flirted with the edge, but I don't think he disregarded it. How many times in the past have we complained about scum players that "should have been sent off" or "could have been sent off". It's part of the game when the ref allows it, as they usually do in these games. It's part of our game at the moment too, pushing those edges. You really think that the ref would have shown a second yellow for one of his tackles had he caught the man? I don't...
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I don't agree with your last paragraph at all. If Lamela would have caught the man before the ball in those final few minutes he was on the pitch I believe he most certainly would have seen a red card. Especially with 60 odd thousand baying at the ref to send him off. Trying to hold off a resurgent Arsenal with 10 tired men would have been doubly difficult. Remember Ade getting a straight red for a reasonably innocuous high boot there several seasons ago?
 
parklane1 said:
Well I came away from that game with a increased belief that we are on the way to be a very good side. I know its easy to slag of the Arse ( its natural) but they are a very good side and apart from City will probably finish higher then the rest.

However we controlled that game for a long period and were unlucky not to come away with all 3 points, we still have players who are not quite the finished product but as they mature they will get better and improve. As for buying players in Jan ( backup for Kane) I do not think there will be anyone better then what we have available until the summer so as long as we can get Song, Nije fit we should be good.

As I said elsewhere I have seen a few false dawns a Spurs supporter but this group of players and manager are showing a great deal of promise for the future.
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I agree with most of that except I still think we need a number 9 in Jan. Son and Nige would not be adequate replacements for Kane. We need someone who is comfortable playing as a lone striker, ideally a goalscorer with pace, strength and good holdup play. Not easy to find, I grant you, especially in Jan, but that is a position we still need cover for if we are to keep the same shape and the same momentum.
 
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