Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

So, AVB couldn't get the best out of him, but he deserves no critique for this because Ade is just a dingdong.

TS can get the best out of him, but he should get no credit for this. Can you explain why?

From what I've read of his time at other clubs, it's not about how he's managed, it's about whether he can be bothered. This changes with the wind, it seems.

AVB's biggest mistake was not realising that in Ade's eye, this is a contract season.

 

[superfaisty]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

f' me I know some people like arguing so can we rename this thread the AVB vs TS thread, and if anyone has some genuine insights or thoughts on the head-coach or our tactics on a game by game basis, we start a new Tactics thread, cos this sheet is getting very boring. What will you have to argue about when he's not here any more. 400 pages ffs

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Well does that not confirm that it was the tactics which were at least partially to blame? Why play a system that does not bring the best out of your quality players? Whatever the reason, Tim has given back his Mojo. I have to say it is a strange decision to discard a talented player and imo (which I know many people will not agree with) that demonstrated AVB's inexperience.

I agree with you. I wasn't sticking up for AVB just pointing out that particular system does tend to impact your lone striker's ability to score goals.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

So an international footballer with 13 years experience shouldn't question a manager with 3 years experience about tactics that were affecting his performance?

I'm not sure whether he was undermining or trying to help and there's no way anyone can tell what Adebayor's reasoning was except him.

He should do what he initially did - speak to the manager in private. That's it, that's where it stops.

Instead of taking it in front of the team he should have STFU and gone off to practice controlling a ball/not being a dingdong.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

From what I've read of his time at other clubs, it's not about how he's managed, it's about whether he can be bothered. This changes with the wind, it seems.

AVB's biggest mistake was not realising that in Ade's eye, this is a contract season.

What have you read that brings you to that conclusion? Do you not feel that the fact that his goals per game record under AVB is poor in comparison to every single manager he has ever played under suggests that it just might be down to something that AVB was doing differently than everyone else?

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

He should do what he initially did - speak to the manager in private. That's it, that's where it stops.

Instead of taking it in front of the team he should have STFU and gone off to practice controlling a ball/not being a dingdong.

It depends on how he brought it up in front of the other players. You seem to have come to the conclusion that he brought it up in front of everyone in a manner that makes AVB look a fool. Have you considered the possibility that he brought it up in a perfectly acceptable way whilst everyone was there and AVB still threw his toys out of the pram? In this case, AVB would be in the wrong.

And also, based on your logic AVB should have taken him off to practice controlling a ball/booked him a psychologist to help him stop being a dingdong. Remember everything is attributed to the manager.

 

[NWND]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I believe AVB did the right thing with Ade - try and sell him and when he couldn't, keep him away from the team where he can't do any damage.
There's not much AVB can do about Ade's silly wages that nobody else will meet.

So AVB did the right thing in tring to sell by far and away our best striker?

 

[DTA]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

So AVB did the right thing in tring to sell by far and away our best striker?

And one of the best in the league... Maybe even our best player.

But it's not like avb has previous .... Oh wait

 

[NWND]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

It depends on how he brought it up in front of the other players. You seem to have come to the conclusion that he brought it up in front of everyone in a manner that makes AVB look a fool. Have you considered the possibility that he brought it up in a perfectly acceptable way whilst everyone was there and AVB still threw his toys out of the pram? In this case, AVB would be in the wrong.

I think this is a distinct possibility. The articles written about his sacking suggest that Spurs didn't actually want to sack AVB necessarily, but had called him to a meeting with Levy & Baldini after the Liverpool game, during which they put some questions to him re: the team performance, some of which centred around whether Adebayor could be reintegrated into the team, whether we could play with 2 strikers.

The rumours were that AVB took this as a personal attack and pretty much destroyed his relationship with Levy & Baldini during the meeting, meaning they felt they had no option but to terminate it. Hence why we looked like we were caught with our pants down by AVB leaving.

2bf, since leaving Porto, I think AVB's biggest flaw is his emotional intelligence. I think he's a text-book geek, that has great knowledge about football and coaching, but doesn't deal well with problematic relationships.

I've seen many managers at work like him. Talk a good game, all the qualifications in the world, aced Uni, got on the graduate scheme, fast-tracked into management, but can't handle any of their methods being questioned and can't handle pressurised situations at work well, especially dealing with problems involving employees they manage.

 

[clownfoot]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

That's a cop out sir. These managers are paid huge amounts of money to find solutions.

The team was built around Bale. That included Ade, who played a role in Bale's progression through his runs to take players away to allow him the space. This, I feel, was more beneficial than Bale playing to support Adebayor. I believe Bale's strength at full, not a mixture of him and Adebayor at differing levels, was the better choice.

I wasn't deliberately trying to cop out when I said in an ideal world, because if I had a solution to that problem I would have done what AVB did to Bobby Robson and cornered him in a lift and told him where he was going wrong. In ten years I would have won the Portuguese league and Europa League and people on here would have been saying it was easy to do. But I'm being flippant now.

 

[clownfoot]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think this is a distinct possibility. The articles written about his sacking suggest that Spurs didn't actually want to sack AVB necessarily, but had called him to a meeting with Levy & Baldini after the Liverpool game, during which they put some questions to him re: the team performance, some of which centred around whether Adebayor could be reintegrated into the team, whether we could play with 2 strikers.

The rumours were that AVB took this as a personal attack and pretty much destroyed his relationship with Levy & Baldini during the meeting, meaning they felt they had no option but to terminate it. Hence why we looked like we were caught with our pants down by AVB leaving.

2bf, since leaving Porto, I think AVB's biggest flaw is his emotional intelligence. I think he's a text-book geek, that has great knowledge about football and coaching, but doesn't deal well with problematic relationships.

I've seen many managers at work like him. Talk a good game, all the qualifications in the world, aced Uni, got on the graduate scheme, fast-tracked into management, but can't handle any of their methods being questioned and can't handle pressurised situations at work well, especially dealing with problems involving employees they manage.

I can't imagine it happening, but perhaps he would be better stepping down and returning to back room coaching and scouting, where by all accounts he excelled.

 

[indianspur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I can't imagine it happening, but perhaps he would be better stepping down and returning to back room coaching and scouting, where by all accounts he excelled.

i thought he was best at compiling dvds and making cups of tea

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

i thought he was best at compiling dvds and making cups of tea

not got a bad trophy haul for a tea boy

 

[Yiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Who gives a **** about AVB and Ade? Pretty surE they both have their own threads.

 

[sc25]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Ade was being called **** because of the sitters he was constantly missing.

What, like Soldado has done this season? And, would Soldado have been criticized for the tap in goal against Sunderland last week?

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I can't imagine it happening, but perhaps he would be better stepping down and returning to back room coaching and scouting, where by all accounts he excelled.

People on that end of the spectrum tend to succeed by appointing a more cuddly/people person #2. That intermediary was always supposed to be Freund.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

What, like Soldado has done this season? And, would Soldado have been criticized for the tap in goal against Sunderland last week?

And your point is??

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

The thing that I would find the most frustrating would be a player to sit there like a muppet and accept tactics that do not work. I'm not advocating outright rebellion but how do you think the likes of Roy Keane, Patrick Viera or Vincent Kompany would have dealt with it? It's the difference imo between being winners and losers. AVB should have been able to deal with it. I think it is a sign of his inexperience/insecurities that he couldn't. What ever Tim is not he does seem able to handle difficult players.

Eh?? Did he not play him last season? So TS has managed for what 3 months, plays Ade and now you say he shows "that he does seem able to handle difficult players"??

So did Wenger, Mancini, Mourinho all show a "lack of ability to handle difficult players" when they played him initially but then stopped before moving him on??
Imagine if TS managed us next season and started dropping Ade; what would you say then?

GHod knows what you'd say about SAF and his decisions to drop/sell players who seemed key at the time, especially in the early years:lol:

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Can any Modf point us to the old Adebayor thread of 2012-13; I bet there may be one or two people who are currently sucking off TS/****ing on AVB for playing/not playing Ade who were screaming blue murder that AVB even had him on the pitch last season when he was "lazy", "couldn't hit a barn door", "should f-off out of my club" - especially after the Basle penalty shoot-out.

That poster Onlyme would no doubt have a field day looking back and showcasing the hypocrites:lol:

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think this is a distinct possibility. The articles written about his sacking suggest that Spurs didn't actually want to sack AVB necessarily, but had called him to a meeting with Levy & Baldini after the Liverpool game, during which they put some questions to him re: the team performance, some of which centred around whether Adebayor could be reintegrated into the team, whether we could play with 2 strikers.

The rumours were that AVB took this as a personal attack and pretty much destroyed his relationship with Levy & Baldini during the meeting, meaning they felt they had no option but to terminate it. Hence why we looked like we were caught with our pants down by AVB leaving.

2bf, since leaving Porto, I think AVB's biggest flaw is his emotional intelligence. I think he's a text-book geek, that has great knowledge about football and coaching, but doesn't deal well with problematic relationships.

I've seen many managers at work like him. Talk a good game, all the qualifications in the world, aced Uni, got on the graduate scheme, fast-tracked into management, but can't handle any of their methods being questioned and can't handle pressurised situations at work well, especially dealing with problems involving employees they manage.

The thing is though if you're a football manager trying to build something, you need to do it your way. There is no universal right or wrong way in terms of tactics, player selection, whatever. But what I think is right is that you have some consistency in terms of what you are trying to build. Everything has to be aligned. If you want to build a defensive team of 6"5 monsters and you get given some tika-taka wannabees, it won't work. Similarly if you're trying to build a team that places the team ethic beyond individual concerns, then getting some players that need to not feel restricted probably won't work.

Ade is a good player under a Sherwood or a Harry. But that doesn't mean AVB is wrong to not use him because his objectives are entirely different. When too many competing forces are trying to pull clubs one way and the other that's when problems start. Man United have it right, the manager is backed and he is given time to build. It's clear, consistent.