Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Or AVB alienated him.

As for the potential to be one of the best he's already shown he can be at Arsenal, City and during his loan spell, it appears that form is carrying over to TS's reign. It was only under AVB it dropped to well below par, if its an attitude problem for Ade how come it only appeared under AVB? Is that Ade or AVB?

Agreed. Of course we will never know the truth until someone who was there brings out a book so this discussion could go on forever. However I'm afraid that the circumstantial evidence does not look good for AVB.

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Even after all the time he has been at the club, I still can't figure out Adebayor. He has the potential to be amongst the best strikers in the league, but at times his application is lacking. I'm not really sure whether it was AVB's tactics that couldn't get the best out of Ade, because there were games when he played very well. I feel that when he went missing on his return from the African Cup of Nations he alienated himself from AVB. A young manager who was undermined by certain players at Chelsea, he could see the same thing happening at Spurs and decided to remove the chance of a repeat. It ultimately was the wrong decision, but if this was his reasoning, then I can see why he went the route he did.

I think Adebayor needs to know he is number one choice at the club, or he has the petulant side to him that will mope at times. Sherwood was almost immediate in his praise of him publicly, which was a rather astute move with hindsight.

LVG has a reputation as not dealing with egos very well, whether rightly or wrongly I'm not sure. Will be interesting to see, if he is our next manager, if he will work well with Ade or try and replace him.

Good post. I have to say if you go back to the games last season it does appear that the striker's movement was not about getting in the box to score goals but rather creating space to allow Bale in to score. Bale rarely passed the ball to the strikers when he cut in. As I say contrast that to Suarez who not only scores but also creates lots for his team mates.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Good post. I have to say if you go back to the games last season it does appear that the striker's movement was not about getting in the box to score goals but rather creating space to allow Bale in to score. Bale rarely passed the ball to the strikers when he cut in. As I say contrast that to Suarez who not only scores but also creates lots for his team mates.

The 4231 system is kind of based around that to be fair. More-so when played with inverted wingers, but it tends to force your striker to play either with their back to goal, or spend most of their time making runs across the box to pull defenders away to create space for others to have a strike at goal.

 

[clownfoot]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Or AVB alienated him.

As for the potential to be one of the best he's already shown he can be at Arsenal, City and during his loan spell, it appears that form is carrying over to TS's reign. It was only under AVB it dropped to well below par, if its an attitude problem for Ade how come it only appeared under AVB? Is that Ade or AVB?

What I should have said was AVB was given enough reason to justifiably alienate him. Not returning to training was disrespectful to everyone involved, from the fans, to his team mates, to his manager, to Levy even. It's immaterial now really however.

He is a player that seems to have blown hot and cold throughout his career. Perhaps one of the posters who knows where to find stats could find which season of his career has been the most consistent? He was outstanding at Arsenal and Emirates Marketing Project, but his performances dipped, fell out with Mancini at Emirates Marketing Project, and he was shipped out. The same thing seemingly was going to happen at Spurs, but no one would take him whilst AVB was in charge.

TS is the first manager to give him a second chance at a club and to his credit, is yet to let him down.

 

[indianspur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

His record speaks for itself

Arsenal 1 goal per 2.2 games
Emirates Marketing Project 1 per 2.2
Madrid on load 1 per 2.8
Spurs on loan 1 per 1.9
Under Sherwood 10 goals already

The sh!t patch just coincided with AVB's tenure as manager, hmmmmm.

exactly....PL goals only. At Arsanal 46 in 104 games. 15 in 34 at City. At Spurs under Redknapp 17 goals in 33 games. Under Sherwood 10 in 16 games.............under AVB 5 goals in 25 games

 

[spasm]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

i'm going to get flak for this BUT here goes...AVB had many faults but let's be honest Ade isn't the easiest to manage...3 top class managers desperate to offload him says a lot..

http://metro.co.uk/2009/09/11/unloved-adebayor-reveals-why-he-left-arsenal-404904/

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2010/feb/28/emmanuel-adebayor-arsenal-manchester-city

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2387302/Real-Madrid-block-Tottenhams-offload-Emmanuel-Adebayor-Gareth-Bale-deal.html

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/transfer-news-emmanuel-adebayor-could-1180380

 

[camspur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

i'm going to get flak for this BUT here goes...AVB had many faults but let's be honest Ade isn't the easiest to manage...3 top class managers desperate to offload him says a lot..

http://metro.co.uk/2009/09/11/unloved-adebayor-reveals-why-he-left-arsenal-404904/

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2010/feb/28/emmanuel-adebayor-arsenal-manchester-city

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2387302/Real-Madrid-block-Tottenhams-offload-Emmanuel-Adebayor-Gareth-Bale-deal.html

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/transfer-news-emmanuel-adebayor-could-1180380

No flak just a request.

Can I have the manager's quotes saying "I want shot of Adebayor" they seem to be missing from all those press stories. City wanted to offload him purely to allow them to sign van persie, there's nothing there from Wenger and we already know AVB didn't like Ade so that one is a non-story.

 

[indianspur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

No flak just a request.

Can I have the manager's quotes saying "I want shot of Adebayor" they seem to be missing from all those press stories. City wanted to offload him purely to allow them to sign van persie, there's nothing there from Wenger and we already know AVB didn't like Ade so that one is a non-story.

im sure it was the 170k a week on offer at City and not the disgruntled Arsanal fans that persuaded him to move

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

The 4231 system is kind of based around that to be fair. More-so when played with inverted wingers, but it tends to force your striker to play either with their back to goal, or spend most of their time making runs across the box to pull defenders away to create space for others to have a strike at goal.

Well does that not confirm that it was the tactics which were at least partially to blame? Why play a system that does not bring the best out of your quality players? Whatever the reason, Tim has given back his Mojo. I have to say it is a strange decision to discard a talented player and imo (which I know many people will not agree with) that demonstrated AVB's inexperience.

 

[clownfoot]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

No flak just a request.

Can I have the manager's quotes saying "I want shot of Adebayor" they seem to be missing from all those press stories. City wanted to offload him purely to allow them to sign van persie, there's nothing there from Wenger and we already know AVB didn't like Ade so that one is a non-story.

You'll be hard pressed to find many managers openly saying they want rid of a player as it would decrease their value. Adebayor has previous with a few managers most notably AVB. He is currently getting along great with TS, but that doesn't mean things won't change. Completely hypothetical I know, but gives some balance and context to the arguement that it was all AVB's fault, as it would seem both parties were probably to blame in some manner.

My main criticism of Adebayor is that he seems to work for mostly himself, not the team. An example of this was the goal he scored on the line against Sunderland. Harry Kane did all the ground work, and Ade swooped in for a tap in. He then took this chance to do his now trademark celebration with Sherwood for a photo opportunity instead of giving Kane the credit that he deserved. Perhaps he is on a massive goal bonus, which would give reason for him doing it?

 

[clownfoot]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Well does that not confirm that it was the tactics which were at least partially to blame? Why play a system that does not bring the best out of your quality players?

It was a system for that. We got the best out of Bale at the cost of Adebayor. Everyone can agree it was a better use of the players we had. When Bale left the rift between manager and player was beyond reconciliation.

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

It was a system for that. We got the best out of Bale at the cost of Adebayor. Everyone can agree it was a better use of the players we had. When Bale left the rift between manager and player was beyond reconciliation.

You see that's where I get confused. Why not implement a system that could reasonably get the best out of both of them?

 

[spasm]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

No flak just a request.

Can I have the manager's quotes saying "I want shot of Adebayor" they seem to be missing from all those press stories. City wanted to offload him purely to allow them to sign van persie, there's nothing there from Wenger and we already know AVB didn't like Ade so that one is a non-story.

No quotes saying "I want shot of Adebayor". managers by and large don't do that. None saying "I won't sell him. He's ****ing brilliant." either.

What there is, is a quote from Adebayor ""Arsène Wenger can never say that I wanted to leave," Adebayor told the French television channel Canal Plus. "It was because Arsène didn't want me any more." and also "If Arsène has a big heart we can go on a TV show to have a debate and he will never say I told him I wanted to leave the club. He'll never say that. He knows it full well."

"I read that it was me who was the troublemaker in the changing room. That's unbelievable. If one player can say that I, Emmanuel Adebayor, spoke badly to anyone in the changing rooms then I'd honestly like to know who it is. It has never happened in my life."

This is the same Adebayor , albeit years later that admitted to confronting AVB about his tactics privately and then publicly, when he felt he was not being heard. You are a professional, just get on with it, need a hug? go see an escort..

tbh, i am not a fan of adebayor and this saluting business is just cringe worthy and if I were AVB and I was trying to impress my methods/formation/tactics on a squad bereft of Bale, with 7 new players and without Moutinho who could possibly have moved us to translate from defence to attack quicker, I too would have asked Adebayor to shut the **** up and try harder or indeed dropped him if he kept banging on about it.

 

[DTA]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

You'll be hard pressed to find many managers openly saying they want rid of a player as it would decrease their value. Adebayor has previous with a few managers most notably AVB. He is currently getting along great with TS, but that doesn't mean things won't change. Completely hypothetical I know, but gives some balance and context to the arguement that it was all AVB's fault, as it would seem both parties were probably to blame in some manner.

My main criticism of Adebayor is that he seems to work for mostly himself, not the team. An example of this was the goal he scored on the line against Sunderland. Harry Kane did all the ground work, and Ade swooped in for a tap in. He then took this chance to do his now trademark celebration with Sherwood for a photo opportunity instead of giving Kane the credit that he deserved. Perhaps he is on a massive goal bonus, which would give reason for him doing it?

Sunderland player was going to clear it off the line or at least stood a good chance to if Ade didn't put it in

 

[clownfoot]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

You see that's where I get confused. Why not implement a system that could reasonably get the best out of both of them?

In an ideal world...

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

No quotes saying "I want shot of Adebayor". managers by and large don't do that. None saying "I won't sell him. He's ****ing brilliant." either.

What there is, is a quote from Adebayor ""Arsène Wenger can never say that I wanted to leave," Adebayor told the French television channel Canal Plus. "It was because Arsène didn't want me any more." and also "If Arsène has a big heart we can go on a TV show to have a debate and he will never say I told him I wanted to leave the club. He'll never say that. He knows it full well."

"I read that it was me who was the troublemaker in the changing room. That's unbelievable. If one player can say that I, Emmanuel Adebayor, spoke badly to anyone in the changing rooms then I'd honestly like to know who it is. It has never happened in my life."

This is the same Adebayor , albeit years later that admitted to confronting AVB about his tactics privately and then publicly, when he felt he was not being heard. You are a professional, just get on with it, need a hug? go see an escort..

tbh, i am not a fan of adebayor and this saluting business is just cringe worthy and if I were AVB and I was trying to impress my methods/formation/tactics on a squad bereft of Bale, with 7 new players and without Moutinho who could possibly have moved us to translate from defence to attack quicker, I too would have asked Adebayor to shut the **** up and try harder or indeed dropped him if he kept banging on about it.

Isn't it right for a player to question tactics that are not working? Or should he have just shut up and taken his money?

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

In an ideal world...

That's a cop out sir. These managers are paid huge amounts of money to find solutions.

 

[spasm]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Isn't it right for a player to question tactics that are not working? Or should he have just shut up and taken his money?

that's the thing. he took the money. said his peace but then didn't shut up. Look, anyone in management will tell you that you need to listen to your employees but at the same time try to maintain your authority.

"I told him: 'Your ideas will not help the team'," the 29-year-old said.

"I have had a chance to play for a lot of top clubs in my career and I know how it's supposed to be.

"I told him one v one and he didn't want to listen, and then I told him in front of the group.

it was AVB's neck on the line. he had to try and solve the problems his way. adebayor undermining him and his tactics especially that bold bit should not have to be tolerated.

 

[camspur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

that's the thing. he took the money. said his peace but then didn't shut up. Look, anyone in management will tell you that you need to listen to your employees but at the same time try to maintain your authority.

"I told him: 'Your ideas will not help the team'," the 29-year-old said.

"I have had a chance to play for a lot of top clubs in my career and I know how it's supposed to be.

"I told him one v one and he didn't want to listen, and then I told him in front of the group.

it was AVB's neck on the line. he had to try and solve the problems his way. adebayor undermining him and his tactics especially that bold bit should not have to be tolerated.

So an international footballer with 13 years experience shouldn't question a manager with 3 years experience about tactics that were affecting his performance?

I'm not sure whether he was undermining or trying to help and there's no way anyone can tell what Adebayor's reasoning was except him.

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

that's the thing. he took the money. said his peace but then didn't shut up. Look, anyone in management will tell you that you need to listen to your employees but at the same time try to maintain your authority.

"I told him: 'Your ideas will not help the team'," the 29-year-old said.

"I have had a chance to play for a lot of top clubs in my career and I know how it's supposed to be.

"I told him one v one and he didn't want to listen, and then I told him in front of the group.

it was AVB's neck on the line. he had to try and solve the problems his way. adebayor undermining him and his tactics especially that bold bit should not have to be tolerated.

The thing that I would find the most frustrating would be a player to sit there like a muppet and accept tactics that do not work. I'm not advocating outright rebellion but how do you think the likes of Roy Keane, Patrick Viera or Vincent Kompany would have dealt with it? It's the difference imo between being winners and losers. AVB should have been able to deal with it. I think it is a sign of his inexperience/insecurities that he couldn't. What ever Tim is not he does seem able to handle difficult players.