Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[Spurs@HKMaOnShan]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I have no idea why there are still so many pro-TS around. Wake up and open your eyes, ppl! Everyone can tell he has no idea what he is doing. he keeps embarassing him self and the so-called passion has nothing to do with coaching ability!

 

[Viper]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

In fairness, he doesn't have the required qualification to be a Premier League manager at the moment, so he will still kinda be YTS

P45 Tim would be better

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Really??
Who were these poorer teams that were creating many chances against us in the first half of games??

Difficult to remember as I try and blot out and cant readily recollect chances against us, but off the top of my head:

Swansea, Hull (in both PL and League Cup), Wet Spam and Saudi Sportswashing Machine all had several chances in the first half against us, to say nothing of Emirates Marketing Project and Liverscum, who demolished us, as well as the very average pub sides we played in Europe.

Hardly watertight as you are making out.

 

[NWND]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Hate the way Tim takes credit for everything and blame for nothing

What you mean like every other top manager like Mourinho, Wenger, Fergie. All the best managers and players have a streak of arrogance. If they don't, then every time they mess up it seeds self-doubt and detracts from their decision making. I actually think this was one of AVB's biggest problems. He was too likeable as a bloke. You can tell that big defeats or set backs rocked him far too much. The way he changed what was up till then a winning philosophy and tactics and dropped Eriksen after the West Ham defeat.

Sherwood would have been like, well we were unlucky, the players were hiding, its not my fault guv and he'll move onto the next game after having his rant and throwing his toys out the pram. So this is IMO a big plus for Sherwood (the fact that he's a bit of a knob).

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Here is the comparison, after the Pool game they will both have had the same number of PL games this season with the same squad (after which TS actually has an amazingly easy run of games)

- With the reasonably fair expectation of Pool winning that game, you end up with TS having 1 more win +1 more loss than AVB
- The football under both has been poor
- The ability to get the best out of the new players under both has been poor

I'm not sure how many people I've heard claim AVB was sacked too early (honestly, I think that's **** TS apologist make up), the thread specific to that topic almost to a person was "firing AVB was the right decision, firing him without a real replacement plan was not"

My issue with TS continues to be I'm not seeing any real improvement, after his dead cat bounce/new manager honeymoon we have not won/drawn any games that aren't gimmes, to me AVB had to go, but I don't think we would have lost every game we did in March (he would have got at least one result in there). TS doesn't know what his first team is and I certainly have no idea what his tactics are.

His results are pretty much the same as the guy who got fired, the club had a lot more vested in the guy who got fired, hence imo he's is delivering unacceptable results ..

tS has had to work with both hands tied behind his back. Despite this, I would say that there has been some signs of improvement. We look much more likely to score goals - compare number of goals scored under both managers.

There are some improvements in certain players too IMO. Eriksen is showing his true potential after being marginalised under AVB. With the exception of Chelsea away, AVB couldn't get a single decent performance from Ade last year and exiled him this season. Soldado looked isolated and bereft under AVB, but there are significant signs of improvement from him in the last few games. AVB appeared not to know Bentelab even existed and he has had a few good games for us. Chadli and Sigi seem to have found an extra gear too.

Not yet brilliant, but there has been some signs of improvement.

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Here is the comparison, after the Pool game they will both have had the same number of PL games this season with the same squad (after which TS actually has an amazingly easy run of games)

- With the reasonably fair expectation of Pool winning that game, you end up with TS having 1 more win +1 more loss than AVB
- The football under both has been poor
- The ability to get the best out of the new players under both has been poor

I'm not sure how many people I've heard claim AVB was sacked too early (honestly, I think that's **** TS apologist make up), the thread specific to that topic almost to a person was "firing AVB was the right decision, firing him without a real replacement plan was not"

My issue with TS continues to be I'm not seeing any real improvement, after his dead cat bounce/new manager honeymoon we have not won/drawn any games that aren't gimmes, to me AVB had to go, but I don't think we would have lost every game we did in March (he would have got at least one result in there). TS doesn't know what his first team is and I certainly have no idea what his tactics are.

His results are pretty much the same as the guy who got fired, the club had a lot more vested in the guy who got fired, hence imo he's is delivering unacceptable results ..

I honestly think you make things up to suit your narrative. Under AVB we were the poorest team in terms of chance conversion in the premiership, worse than Palace, Fulham Norwich etc, we needed dodgy penalty decisions to gain a fair number of those points. It would be interesting to compare their respective points totals without those favourable decisions. Our luck would have run out under AVB just like our goal difference. Sherwood has beaten the teams around us that are outside the top 4, AVB failed to do so. As for gimme games what a load of bollox. Arsenal and Chelsea have lost to Villa, City to Cardiff, Liverpool to hull so there are no such games.

Let's be clear we are 5th in the table 5TH. Where we have finished in all but 3 of the last 9 seasons. But apparently we are awful and this is a dog **** season. At the start of last season some posters were saying they would have accepted us finishing 6th as it was AVB's first season. Yet Tim is getting abuse for being in 5th despite coming in mid season? As for referring to TS apologists well if that means giving a bloke a chance well I am happy to be called one. Last season I was an AVB apologist obviously.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

tS has had to work with both hands tied behind his back.

You're right, his personality and his ability are massive constraints in this game.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

You're right, his personality and his ability are massive constraints in this game.

To say nothing of having to cope with doom-mongers, nay-sayers, and critics BEFORE he had even started, like your good self.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I honestly think you make things up to suit your narrative. Under AVB we were the poorest team in terms of chance conversion in the premiership, worse than Palace, Fulham Norwich etc, we needed dodgy penalty decisions to gain a fair number of those points. It would be interesting to compare their respective points totals without those favourable decisions. Our luck would have run out under AVB just like our goal difference. Sherwood has beaten the teams around us that are outside the top 4, AVB failed to do so. As for gimme games what a load of bollox. Arsenal and Chelsea have lost to Villa, City to Cardiff, Liverpool to hull so there are no such games.

Let's be clear we are 5th in the table 5TH. Where we have finished in all but 3 of the last 9 seasons. But apparently we are awful and this is a dog **** season. At the start of last season some posters were saying they would have accepted us finishing 6th as it was AVB's first season. Yet Tim is getting abuse for being in 5th despite coming in mid season? As for referring to TS apologists well if that means giving a bloke a chance well I am happy to be called one. Last season I was an AVB apologist obviously.

=D>

Like you, I am not a TS apologist unless it means giving a bloke a fair chance.

I invite all TS "haters" to say how long they think is a " fair chance"?

 

[Lost Mango]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

tS has had to work with both hands tied behind his back. Despite this, I would say that there has been some signs of improvement. We look much more likely to score goals - compare number of goals scored under both managers.

There are some improvements in certain players too IMO. Eriksen is showing his true potential after being marginalised under AVB. With the exception of Chelsea away, AVB couldn't get a single decent performance from Ade last year and exiled him this season. Soldado looked isolated and bereft under AVB, but there are significant signs of improvement from him in the last few games. AVB appeared not to know Bentelab even existed and he has had a few good games for us. Chadli and Sigi seem to have found an extra gear too.

Not yet brilliant, but there has been some signs of improvement.

So basically lots of the new signings have taken awhile to settle but have now found their feet, as would be expected for players new to the league, but this is due to Sherwood's man management abilities rather than just, say, time?


And whilst we have improved going forward we have taken big strides back wards defensively.

From my point of view, Deadwood hasn't done anything that shows he is an improvement on AVB and if that was not enough to retain AVB I don't see why it is enough to maintain the current incumbent. He had an input into transfer policy before appointment and passed in January so has had a chance to do something, however minor, to make the squad 'his' but opted to stick. The injury situation has been seen before and will be again so is generally a level playing field for any manager.

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Tbh this is a horrible thread. Hard to believe at times this a thread where Tottenham fans are talking about their own manager. I hope Tim goes end of season because it does not matter what he achieves he will never be accepted. We need a manager if nothing else can get the entire or majority of the fan base behind him.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Difficult to remember as I try and blot out and cant readily recollect chances against us, but off the top of my head:

Swansea, Hull (in both PL and League Cup), Wet Spam and Saudi Sportswashing Machine all had several chances in the first half against us, to say nothing of Emirates Marketing Project and Liverscum, who demolished us, as well as the very average pub sides we played in Europe.

Hardly watertight as you are making out.

Saudi Sportswashing Machine scored yes and created some chances against us in the first half. The other three: codswallop! West ham especially who created their chances (including their goals) in the second half.
Of course I said smaller clubs so that fact you can't recollect but then bring up Emirates Marketing Project and Liverpool (who I stated I was excluding) shows your own bias.

In the first half of most games earlier under AVB we were FAR more solid than we are now with TS. Whether posession for posession sake is good or not is another point, but we have had TS for a while now and yet we still are bossed by the opposition in most first halves of games.

At some point you are going to have to judge TS on his games alone and stop harking back to AVB as a means of defending him. TS is certainly not the first manager to take over out team after a mid-season sacking as we know and he is certainly not the first manager to have to deal with injuries. Compared to Ramos, Harry and others who have taken over mid-season he has taken over a squad that was NOT in a relegation digfight regradless of the issues and a stamp would have been formed on the way we play that could be seen in a positive way (whether that be a pattern of play or defensive solidity). The fact that TS has not been able to make his own stamp on how we play (apart from how much more poorly we start games) says a lot.
No amount of harking back to AVB can cover for that now.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

So basically lots of the new signings have taken awhile to settle but have now found their feet, as would be expected for players new to the league, but this is due to Sherwood's man management abilities rather than just, say, time?


And whilst we have improved going forward we have taken big strides back wards defensively.

From my point of view, Deadwood hasn't done anything that shows he is an improvement on AVB and if that was not enough to retain AVB I don't see why it is enough to maintain the current incumbent. He had an input into transfer policy before appointment and passed in January so has had a chance to do something, however minor, to make the squad 'his' but opted to stick. The injury situation has been seen before and will be again so is generally a level playing field for any manager.

Knowing Levy, he probably didn't (no-matter what he said in the press).

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

So basically lots of the new signings have taken awhile to settle but have now found their feet, as would be expected for players new to the league, but this is due to Sherwood's man management abilities rather than just, say, time?


And whilst we have improved going forward we have taken big strides back wards defensively.

From my point of view, Deadwood hasn't done anything that shows he is an improvement on AVB and if that was not enough to retain AVB I don't see why it is enough to maintain the current incumbent. He had an input into transfer policy before appointment and passed in January so has had a chance to do something, however minor, to make the squad 'his' but opted to stick. The injury situation has been seen before and will be again so is generally a level playing field for any manager.

Some were new signings, some were not. Some were being marginalised, others not even played. Some played in a role they weren't suited to with inadequate support.

The defense has been poor all season. They have become worse due to a horrendous injury crisis leading to a back four that is continually changing through the unavailability of individuals and some games even played without even one or two recognized centre halves. Plus the full back situation TS inherited is less than exactly ideal.

The simple efluxion of time argument doesn't wash to put these things right I'm afraid to say.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Tbh this is a horrible thread. Hard to believe at times this a thread where Tottenham fans are talking about their own manager. I hope Tim goes end of season because it does not matter what he achieves he will never be accepted. We need a manager if nothing else can get the entire or majority of the fan base behind him.

We haven't had one since Jol.

Spurs fans were split shortly after Ramos was appointed into "Thinkers" and "Reactors" (lazy to group so many people into just two categories like that, I know, but they work 90% of the time) and the divisions have continued since. It doesn't help that Levy seems to be flip-flopping between manager styles that one or the other group tends to like.

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Some were new signings, some were not. Some were being marginalised, others not even played. Some played in a role they weren't suited to with inadequate support.

The defense has been poor all season. They have become worse due to a horrendous injury crisis leading to a back four that is continually changing through the unavailability of individuals and some games even played without even one or two recognized centre halves. Plus the full back situation TS inherited is less than exactly ideal.

The simple efluxion of time argument doesn't wash to put these things right I'm afraid to say.

Agreed.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Saudi Sportswashing Machine scored yes and created some chances against us in the first half. The other three: codswallop! West ham especially who created their chances (including their goals) in the second half.
Of course I said smaller clubs so that fact you can't recollect but then bring up Emirates Marketing Project and Liverpool (who I stated I was excluding) shows your own bias.

In the first half of most games earlier under AVB we were FAR more solid than we are now with TS. Whether posession for posession sake is good or not is another point, but we have had TS for a while now and yet we still are bossed by the opposition in most first halves of games.

At some point you are going to have to judge TS on his games alone and stop harking back to AVB as a means of defending him. TS is certainly not the first manager to take over out team after a mid-season sacking as we know and he is certainly not the first manager to have to deal with injuries. Compared to Ramos, Harry and others who have taken over mid-season he has taken over a squad that was NOT in a relegation digfight regradless of the issues and a stamp would have been formed on the way we play that could be seen in a positive way (whether that be a pattern of play or defensive solidity). The fact that TS has not been able to make his own stamp on how we play (apart from how much more poorly we start games) says a lot.
No amount of harking back to AVB can cover for that now.

You seem to have conveniently ignored Swansea, Hull x2 and the European games, although you have conceded Saudi Sportswashing Machine. I said ADD that to the city and Liverpool demolitions and it is clear as day we were not exactly watertight at the back earlier this season - even with a full complement of defensive players.

I agree that at some point, TS will need to be judged on a stand alone basis. However, I personally don't think that time is yet.

Again, I invite you to say how long it would be to give TS a " fair chance". So far I haven't heard that from you.

 

[Raziel]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I honestly think you make things up to suit your narrative. Under AVB we were the poorest team in terms of chance conversion in the premiership, worse than Palace, Fulham Norwich etc, we needed dodgy penalty decisions to gain a fair number of those points. It would be interesting to compare their respective points totals without those favourable decisions. Our luck would have run out under AVB just like our goal difference. Sherwood has beaten the teams around us that are outside the top 4, AVB failed to do so. As for gimme games what a load of bollox. Arsenal and Chelsea have lost to Villa, City to Cardiff, Liverpool to hull so there are no such games.

Let's be clear we are 5th in the table 5TH. Where we have finished in all but 3 of the last 9 seasons. But apparently we are awful and this is a dog **** season. At the start of last season some posters were saying they would have accepted us finishing 6th as it was AVB's first season. Yet Tim is getting abuse for being in 5th despite coming in mid season? As for referring to TS apologists well if that means giving a bloke a chance well I am happy to be called one. Last season I was an AVB apologist obviously.

- The issue is not the place or points, it's results/potential
- The team is clearly (I challenge anyone on this) capable of playing better, great example being final 10-15 minutes against Benfica
- look at our players Vert, Lennon, Dembele, Sandro (all established PL players by now) = underperforming, Soldado, Lamela, Chadli, Capoue = underperforming/delivering
- Surrendered in all the cups (under both managers)

Lets be clear, this has nothing to do with AVB or CL spots

- If our team was playing well, looked a unit, looked like we had a strategy, I'd be happy to say give a bloke a chance
- But we have struggled against dross (Norwich), we make decent teams look like Barca at times, we take 50-70 minutes to get into most games and we look like any top team will give us a hiding.
- It's simply not good enough

Make no mistake, if a manager had us playing well, looking solid, progressing in the cups, but we simply could not match the points output of the top 4, I'm fine with 5th, but that's not the case, its us failing to live up to 80% of our potential, not bigger/better/more expensive squads outplaying us.

 

[Raziel]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

You seem to have conveniently ignored Swansea, Hull x2 and the European games, although you have conceded Saudi Sportswashing Machine. I said ADD that to the city and Liverpool demolitions and it is clear as day we were not exactly watertight at the back earlier this season - even with a full complement of defensive players.

I agree that at some point, TS will need to be judged on a stand alone basis. However, I personally don't think that time is yet.

Again, I invite you to say how long it would be to give TS a " fair chance". So far I haven't heard that from you.

The answer to that you won't like, but I'll give a reason

- To me, his chance is up, he needed to make a good run in one of the cups and/or seriously challenge for 4th, that obviously would have been his mandate taking the job.

TS's problem is he always was a gamble, an established manager can ask for a full season or more to be judged, because he has credentials that state he's done it before, therefore is worth the risk (think of the idea of if you had to pick one striker between Soldado/Kane to play every game for rest of season, which one and why? answer = Soldado, because his record says he can do it again)

Tottenham is a 120M+ pound business a year that cannot risk the results of another season on a "maybe" with no history/credentials/indicator that it's worth the risk, hope is not a strategy.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Some were new signings, some were not. Some were being marginalised, others not even played. Some played in a role they weren't suited to with inadequate support.

How does a player being marginalised look to an outsider? Does it look different to a player who has shown in training that he hasn't yet adapted?

The defense has been poor all season.

It's not been as good as I'd like this season, but it was a hell of a lot better before YTS. Consider the right-hand side of the following two images:

AVB:

YTS:

(Figures slightly out of date but I have a life so I don't count this **** myself)

Not only are we giving away a whole extra shot per game under YTS, but that extra shot is coming from the prime zone (inside the width of the 6yd box from goal line to the edge of the 18yd box). Under YTS we are giving away 1.3 shots per game from inside the 6 yard box.

I'll quote the rest as I can't phrase it any better myself:

this equates to 13 shots conceded from inside the 6 yard box and only Fulham and Cardiff have conceded more shots from this very important area in the period since Sherwood took over. By way of comparison, Everton have conceded 3, Liverpool 6 and Emirates Marketing Project 4 over the same period, so the amount of such chances conceded by Tottenham are not consistent with a team chasing that important 4th league position.

And all this before the regression monster came out from under little Timmy's bed to give him a big old scare.