Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

So in like for like games this season we have been:

AVB 5-3-3 - 18pts
TS 6-1-4 - 19pts

That's not a lot of difference at all in fact a slight edge for TS, yet AVB was the saviour and should've been given time and TS the devil in disguise and should be shown the door.

Strange isn't it? And one had 18 months, two pre-seasons and over 100m spent on players for him. It's a funny old world.

 

[camspur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Well, actually, that set of results got AVB fired, so the question to the TS apologists, is 1 point more than the guy who got fired (with the board taking in all the implications of bigger payoff, season impact, etc) good enough?

No it's not good enough and I don't claim it is, yet some claim AVB was sacked too early but you then have to add in the 4 non-likeforlike fixtures in which Spurs (under TS) have picked up 10 out of a possible 12.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Thank you. So don't blame TS for something that has been part of the team make up all season.

You claim it was control under AVB, I say it was possession for possessios sake and completely lacking in any form of attacking ideas under AVB. We will never agree on that, but for you to imply that this now only happening under or because of TS is plainly, self evidently wrong. Even the poorer teams were creating many chances against us under AVB - or have you conveniently forgotten that as well?.

Really??
Who were these poorer teams that were creating many chances against us in the first half of games??

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Presuming you mean Liverpool away as the one loss, I'd say that Stoke away is always a tricky fixture and they're playing very well at present.... W4 D2 L1 is acceptable IMO

Stoke away isn't what it used to be under Pulis - I'd expect us to win that but maybe not as comfortably as some of the other matches.

West Ham away will likely be the only team with any fight in them against us, but they really are a terrible team and it being their cup final shouldn't make a difference if we're able to get our feet on the ball and control the game.

 

[elyid]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

The fact is both AVB and TS have done reasonably well points wise, but 3 problems remain:

1) AVB was likely sacked for personal reasons as much as results
2) The points total needed to get CL is higher than a few years ago
3) Our expectations have been artificially raised due to spending so much money

When we first sold Bale lots of people on here were saying they'd expect us to be 5th-7th this year and then challenge again next year.
However, after looking like we could be in with a chance of 4th we're now ****ed off to miss out.

The boring answer is both managers are "OK", but really we need someone exceptional to take us to the next level.

 

[DTA]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Well, actually, that set of results got AVB fired, so the question to the TS apologists, is 1 point more than the guy who got fired (with the board taking in all the implications of bigger payoff, season impact, etc) good enough?

I thought it was common ish knowledge that avb wanted to go, you don't sack someone without a replacement over two meetings

 

[DTA]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

The fact is both AVB and TS have done reasonably well points wise, but 3 problems remain:

1) AVB was likely sacked for personal reasons as much as results
2) The points total needed to get CL is higher than a few years ago
3) Our expectations have been artificially raised due to spending so much money

When we first sold Bale lots of people on here were saying they'd expect us to be 5th-7th this year and then challenge again next year.
However, after looking like we could be in with a chance of 4th we're now ****ed off to miss out.

The boring answer is both managers are "OK", but really we need someone exceptional to take us to the next level.

Yep

 

[Raziel]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

No it's not good enough and I don't claim it is, yet some claim AVB was sacked too early but you then have to add in the 4 non-likeforlike fixtures in which Spurs (under TS) have picked up 10 out of a possible 12.

Here is the comparison, after the Pool game they will both have had the same number of PL games this season with the same squad (after which TS actually has an amazingly easy run of games)

- With the reasonably fair expectation of Pool winning that game, you end up with TS having 1 more win +1 more loss than AVB
- The football under both has been poor
- The ability to get the best out of the new players under both has been poor

I'm not sure how many people I've heard claim AVB was sacked too early (honestly, I think that's **** TS apologist make up), the thread specific to that topic almost to a person was "firing AVB was the right decision, firing him without a real replacement plan was not"

My issue with TS continues to be I'm not seeing any real improvement, after his dead cat bounce/new manager honeymoon we have not won/drawn any games that aren't gimmes, to me AVB had to go, but I don't think we would have lost every game we did in March (he would have got at least one result in there). TS doesn't know what his first team is and I certainly have no idea what his tactics are.

His results are pretty much the same as the guy who got fired, the club had a lot more vested in the guy who got fired, hence imo he's is delivering unacceptable results ..

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

So in like for like games this season we have been:

AVB 5-3-3 - 18pts
TS 6-1-4 - 19pts

That's not a lot of difference at all in fact a slight edge for TS, yet AVB was the saviour and should've been given time and TS the devil in disguise and should be shown the door.

Or aimed at the opposite camp : Sherwood is doing no better than someone you all wanted sacked... I think most people who wanted AVB to be given more time held the opinion that we weren't picking up enough points and that things would improve as the new signings settled in. I don't think they were of the opinion that his points total at that point of the season was outstanding.

It's all irrelevant at the end of the day

 

[Raziel]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I thought it was common ish knowledge that avb wanted to go, you don't sack someone without a replacement over two meetings

If you accept that "rumour" that AVB wanted to go, you also have to accept the rumour that they have been issues with AVB since the summer.

Levy has had a history of looking at manager replacements even when the incumbent is doing well, not sure how we had no plan B here

 

[Spurs7891]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Not sure how you can compare the achievement of AVB from the start the season and Sherwood who took over after almost half the season gone. This is the same as comparing Ramos and Redknapp in 2009. Any manager who start a season with so many new players are always at a disadvantage.

New players only start to gel after a few months. In that sense, Redknapp and Sherwood has unfair advantage as they took over just when the new players started to gel with the team : Modric in 2009 and players like Chadli, Soldado and Eriksen now. I don't think Sherwood would have done better if he had started the season with all the new players.

Also, don't forget about the impact of Europa League on the team. We had been poor in the league after playing EL matches. AVB had to play 8 EL matches while Sherwood only needed to play 4 of them this season. I have no doubt, we would be near the relegation zone if Sherwood had started the season as the coach.

 

[DTA]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

If you accept that "rumour" that AVB wanted to go, you also have to accept the rumour that they have been issues with AVB since the summer.

Levy has had a history of looking at manager replacements even when the incumbent is doing well, not sure how we had no plan B here

I think there probably was problems, but my opinion is they are ones that were mostly created by avb himself.

Many things that played out at chelsea done so at spurs as well.... (As an aside ish Why did Freud stop celebrating like a mad man on the sidelines?)

The fact that you bring up Levi's history about approaching new managers behind the back of the present one, is so apt... It's very telling that levy didn't have a replacement lined up, it shows that if levy went into either of those meetings with the intension of firing avb... Then Ramos mk2 would have been on a easy jet flight in to London

 

[spurs' magna carter]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Or aimed at the opposite camp : Sherwood is doing no better than someone you all wanted sacked... I think most people who wanted AVB to be given more time held the opinion that we weren't picking up enough points and that things would improve as the new signings settled in. I don't think they were of the opinion that his points total at that point of the season was outstanding.

It's all irrelevant at the end of the day

It's a penis measuring contest.

Sherwood has done well, he's steadied the ship preventing us from sinking. If he wins at Liverpool then of course he should be respected and considered more but on the evidence shown in the above bar goals scored, which to improve wasn't mission impossible, he hasn't improved much else.

If the club is serious about challenging for honours and playing CL football on a regular basis then we need someone with experience and proven track record such as Van Gaal or at bare minimum Benitez (6 major trophies at 3 different clubs). I would like Sherwood to stay at the club but would prefer it to be in a another capacity going under the wing of a wise master, if he chooses to manage elsewhere then I'll wish him all the best.

 

[DTA]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

It's a penis measuring contest.

Sherwood has done well, he's steadied the ship preventing us from sinking. If he wins at Liverpool then of course he should be respected and considered more but on the evidence shown in the above bar goals scored, which to improve wasn't mission impossible, he hasn't improved much else.

If the club is serious about challenging for honours and playing CL football on a regular basis then we need someone with experience and proven track record such as Van Gaal or at bare minimum Benitez (6 major trophies at 3 different clubs). I would like Sherwood to stay at the club but would prefer it to be in a another capacity going under the wing of a wise master, if he chooses to manage elsewhere then I'll wish him all the best.

Yep... The thing that gets me and I'm no Sherwood fan.. Is that even if he wins every remaining game he will still be yts Tim to some

 

[camspur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

It's a penis measuring contest.

Sherwood has done well, he's steadied the ship preventing us from sinking. If he wins at Liverpool then of course he should be respected and considered more but on the evidence shown in the above bar goals scored, which to improve wasn't mission impossible, he hasn't improved much else.

If the club is serious about challenging for honours and playing CL football on a regular basis then we need someone with experience and proven track record such as Van Gaal or at bare minimum Benitez (6 major trophies at 3 different clubs). I would like Sherwood to stay at the club but would prefer it to be in a another capacity going under the wing of a wise master, if he chooses to manage elsewhere then I'll wish him all the best.

Therin lies the rub.

I have no confidence that the Board view us as a CL club or at least they don't view us as a CL club until we get the new stadium built and any money invested in the club will be to pay for the building of the stadium and not on players and managers that will make us CL regulars.

 

[camspur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Yep... The thing that gets me and I'm no Sherwood fan.. Is that even if he wins every remaining game he will still be yts Tim to some

and if not YTS the "the Prince of Darkness" or someone who is "vile and cretinous"

Pretty much a no-win situation for him.

 

[spurs' magna carter]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Therin lies the rub.

I have no confidence that the Board view us as a CL club or at least they don't view us as a CL club until we get the new stadium built and any money invested in the club will be to pay for the building of the stadium and not on players and managers that will make us CL regulars.

I agree. If the club goes with Sherwood then they and the fans have to lower their expectations slightly and see how it goes.

I personally feel we need to protect the investment from the summer or at least most of. Sherwood has made it abundantly clear that he wants another squad overhaul which I personally see to be a bit unnecessary. Yes some players have been below par and some need to go but you can't have 2 perfect players in every position, you need to focus on having a very good first team and then try cover them with someone who is young and eager to learn or someone who will do. Just look at Borussia Dortmund, their squad from 2010-2013 hardly what I call strength in depth but they had a great first team and a system that worked.

 

[Seedy Ron]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Yep... The thing that gets me and I'm no Sherwood fan.. Is that even if he wins every remaining game he will still be yts Tim to some

In fairness, he doesn't have the required qualification to be a Premier League manager at the moment, so he will still kinda be YTS

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

and if not YTS the "the Prince of Darkness" or someone who is "vile and cretinous"

Pretty much a no-win situation for him.

Well he's had the last 17 years (only know about what he's like since Hodgson) to practice not being a ****. Maybe if he'd succeeded at that, some of us who dislike him wouldn't dislike him so much.

 

[Bullet]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Those matches at this point in the season should be W6 L1 even if we had a half-trained chimp as manager.

This is codswallop, but it does explain why you are permanently disappointed with Spurs.