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Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

Do you want Tim Sherwood to stay as manager?


  • Total voters
    125
  • Poll closed .
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Really, the saggy faced ****, twitchy, comments about his alleged tax issues, bribes/bunts/etc.? you have seen stuff on that personal level to TS?

Saying the guy is a **** coach isn't quite the same.

That last sentence is ridiculous. There have been insults to his intelligence, his accent, his playing abilities, his lack of managerial experience. For saggy face I raise you cretinism. He 's a schemer, a caveman probably a serial killer and wife beater. Just look at the opening post of this thread about a manager of a team the poster purports to support. It's out of order and not becoming of some otherwise great posters. At least glorygloryeze and Bol as much as I disagree with them raise valid arguments rather than just insults. We are fifth in the table without bale. And we are winning without our striking talisman, we were, a not given penalty decision away,with a patched up defence from beating a bang in form European team, yet posters still will not give him one ounce of credit.
 
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Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Fair play to Tim. I was one of the most scathing in terms of his rant post-Chelsea but the team have done okay since. Great turnaround yesterday, good use of the subs, delighted for the fella. Don't always agree with his methods but he's doing an alright job.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

we played ok in the second half. Still, we look a far better team when the midfielders and attackers press and press and win the ball back. Thats what happened in Lisbon in that crazy last 20 mins, and in the second half yesterday there were signs of the same
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Look at the players that STILL aren't available to TS yesterday:

Walker
Chiriches
Sandro
Capoue
Ade
Lamela

That's over half a team, most of whom would be first choice if fit.

Add in out of form/not fully fit

Paulie
Dawson
Townsend
Lennon
Dembele

And any fair minded person can see that his options are extremely limited. To come back against a decent Soton side from two goals down and score three goals from open play (no dodgy pen, no brilliant free kick) is nothing short of miraculous IMO for which TS deserves a lot of credit.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I'm still not convinced obviously and I think the slow, lethargic pace at which we start games coupled with the suicidal high-line with little pressure on the ball needs to be cut out. I'm not sure if the high line is something Sherwood wants to do or whether the players have had it drilled into them so much by AVB that he is struggling to coach them out of it. We dropped deeper in the 2nd half yesterday and it helped a lot.

However, I'd say Eriksen is looking great and Soldado and Chadli are at least looking promising. If he can get Lamela playing well and re-integrate Chiriches, it will mean the majority of our super-7 summer signings will end the season high on confidence and ready for the new season, whether Sherwood is manager or not. In that respect alone, i'm sure Sherwood is doing a fine job by Levy & Baldini.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

It's certainly a point to debate and discuss, and I can see where you're coming from because I've been there many times with him. But he shows some signs of learning; the subbing of Dembele at HT for Sigurdsson, the realization that Eriksen and Soldado must play together, the implementation of Bentaleb, the identification of Kaboul as a skipper for now (rouser, presence), his accommodation of Chadli…don't get me wrong, he still get it all wrong sometimes (goons at home) but I get the feeling he could produce a very decent side if he had the time/more experience. That he is learning here, right now, I don't think it will happen unless he gets three years without pressure. But that's like winning the lottery in modern football, especially at this club!!!

The real gamble would be if he were given money to spend. He did the right thing in January, took no-one on and is assessing the squad. He would know what he needs and who he wants right now.

The ticket for us would be to pair him off with a world class manager and allow Sherwood to learn more. I don't especially like what I know of him, that's for sure, but I do think he has some big potential.

I agree with most of this except :

1. He didn't do the right thing in January. We desperately needed a left back and in my view another striker to replace Defoe.

2. He did ok against Arsnl. We lost to a worldie and matched them throughout otherwise. Chadli scores his open goal and we get a draw which would have been a fair reflection if the game IMO.

3. TS has potential but doesn't need an experienced manager to work under. I would prefer top class coaches to work with him and a specialist corner coach, which continues to be our Achilles heel at both ends of the park.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Plus, our remaining fixtures:

Liverpool (A)
Sunderland (H)
West Brom (A)
Fulham (H)
Stoke (A)
West Ham (A)
Aston Villa (H)

I'd say that SHOULD be only one more defeat by season's end. The last 3 home games should be 3 wins and even if we say we only win 1 of the away games and draw the others that is 14 more points, which means we finish on 70 points, the same number of points (and defeats) as in our first 4th place finish under Redknapp and our joint 2nd best ever Premiership season in terms of results/points.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I agree with most of this except :

1. He didn't do the right thing in January. We desperately needed a left back and in my view another striker to replace Defoe.

2. He did ok against Arsnl. We lost to a worldie and matched them throughout otherwise. Chadli scores his open goal and we get a draw which would have been a fair reflection if the game IMO.

3. TS has potential but doesn't need an experienced manager to work under. I would prefer top class coaches to work with him and a specialist corner coach, which continues to be our Achilles heel at both ends of the park.

We don't need a specialist corner coach to defend set pieces, we just need better defenders. None of our full-backs are good defensively and only Dawson is decent at attacking a ball in the air. Chiriches could learn this and has potential, but Kaboul and Vertonghen desperately need upgrading IMO.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I'm still not convinced obviously and I think the slow, lethargic pace at which we start games coupled with the suicidal high-line with little pressure on the ball needs to be cut out. I'm not sure if the high line is something Sherwood wants to do or whether the players have had it drilled into them so much by AVB that he is struggling to coach them out of it. We dropped deeper in the 2nd half yesterday and it helped a lot.

However, I'd say Eriksen is looking great and Soldado and Chadli are at least looking promising. If he can get Lamela playing well and re-integrate Chiriches, it will mean the majority of our super-7 summer signings will end the season high on confidence and ready for the new season, whether Sherwood is manager or not. In that respect alone, i'm sure Sherwood is doing a fine job by Levy & Baldini.

The slow start and high line are a hangover from the AVB days IMO. Apparently, rather shockingly, we haven't scored in the first 15 minutes of any PL game all season. Hardly fair to just say this is TS's fault.

Same with the high line. We have had this tactic all season. The players we have just aren't suited to it. Our CBS are just too slow and lack the positional sense and intelligence ( ? motivation from Verts) to implement it successfully. Combine that with poor pressing from midfield and it is a recipe for disaster as our tonkings this season demonstrate.

Can TS (or another coach) fix it? Yes, he (they) can. But not this season and not with these players. It needs a whole pre-season ( at least ) of practise and drilling, at least one new CB and one new FB IMO before our defence can look solid.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

We don't need a specialist corner coach to defend set pieces, we just need better defenders. None of our full-backs are good defensively and only Dawson is decent at attacking a ball in the air. Chiriches could learn this and has potential, but Kaboul and Vertonghen desperately need upgrading IMO.

We need both.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

i think Sherwood will do whatever it takes to keep this job, and unfortunately because Levy seems to like him so much and wouldnt want to risk losing Sherwood all together, I think Levy will keep things as they are for the start of next season.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

The slow start and high line are a hangover from the AVB days IMO. Apparently, rather shockingly, we haven't scored in the first 15 minutes of any PL game all season. Hardly fair to just say this is TS's fault.

Same with the high line. We have had this tactic all season. The players we have just aren't suited to it. Our CBS are just too slow and lack the positional sense and intelligence ( ? motivation from Verts) to implement it successfully. Combine that with poor pressing from midfield and it is a recipe for disaster as our tonkings this season demonstrate.

Can TS (or another coach) fix it? Yes, he (they) can. But not this season and not with these players. It needs a whole pre-season ( at least ) of practise and drilling, at least one new CB and one new FB IMO before our defence can look solid.

Yeah, i think we need a more solid left-back that plays a supporting role. I honestly think we can only accomodate one bombing forward wing-back with a defensive lapse waiting to happen in Walker. We need a clear-out in defence. I'd actually keep only Walker, Dawson & Chiriches. The only time we looked solid this season was when Dawson played with Chiriches. As soon as Vertonghen came back the circus opened for business. Kaboul doesn't look the same player he was before his injury problems (probably too early to say really, and he may come good again with an extended run, but with his recent fitness record and the problems injuries have caused us at the back this season, i'd be tempted to get rid and upgrade to someone that can stay fit for most of a season).
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

My main problem with the Goons was the starting line-up, which square-pegged round holes for which we had round pegs! For me, if you're going to play Eriksen, Townsend and Chadli, it makes sense to play

Townsend on the left, Eriksen in the hole, Chadli on the right…or play Ade on the left off Soldado and allow him and Eriksen to switch off with each other on that left-side/drift into dangerous areas. Eriksen needs the license…

Back to my original thought, Townsend-Eriksen-Chadli, it at least give proper balance and some strength/presence on the left when Rose inevitably gets caught out (Townsend is faster on the cover - if he gets on it in the first place!)…

Yes, I made remark somewhere before that Sherwood's growth would rely on the SAF method, which was to find an outstanding coach to work as his right-hand man. Cannot remember which thread, but I'd said I don't know enough about Ramsey at this level to comment. I personally feel Sherwood could do with his own version of a Queiroz if he were to stay and grow. But when you take that path, it's important to work with people who are technically superior and who will not be afraid of you.

Back to the goons one more time. Eriksen and Soldado have a relationship. They've had it for some time. I think it's folly not to have played them together more often and shows a certain lack of imagination (Liverpool find a way to play Suarez and Sturridge as well as Sterling) so it can be done. And we could do it. Soldado was excellent today, grew and grew in confidence and if the passes to him had been a bit better, he'd have ben onto a brace himself. But it's happening. The key is for Sherwood to now roll with this growth and let it, err, grow ore as the season goes IMO.

As far as I could see, they were all given roaming roles. None stuck rigidly to one position as you describe above. I would be interested to see the heat maps.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

We have started poorly/sluggishly in most of TS 's games now; As I said we have regularly done so in games that haven't come after a EL game and actually seem to start worse when we've had a week or so to prepare. Sherwood having to give the team a gonad*ing at HT has now become a very common theme and I think the issue of games coming after EL ones is a big red herring now.



The CB pairing we have now is commonly considered to be the best at the club by most fans. In fact today, bar Naughton that could be considered our first choice defence, yet it is constantly keystone cops under a little bit of pressure (also not helped by the fact that the DM(s) in front of them have such poor positioning/awareness and also don't give them easy outlets. There has been enough games for the personnel that played today to show more stability. Ramos, Redknapp and AVB after this number of games started showing far less haphazardness amongst the defence after this many games.
We were playing Southampton today not Manure or Arsenal. If there really were problems beneath the surface with AVB's defence his stats showed he did far more work tactically to hide them.
At some point people are going to have to stop using AVB and what he did/didn't do to aid in TS's defence.



Wow; clutching straws much? Soldado had no right to get into the position to set-up Eriksen for the goal. The pass forward was not good enough for him to get and their defender BALLS UP BIG TIME. Put it this way: if WE had conceded a goal like that would we be holding our hands up saying "that was great attacking play by that lot"?? Please, any of our defenders would get pelters if we conceded that goal!



That's my point we just took it to the wings to sling in a cross and hope. Eriksen's first goal: again if WE had conceded that would we be giving our defence pelters? Too right we would: Exhibit A - Kyle Walker's role in Rooney's first in our home 2-2 draw with Manure!! Slinging crosses in, and especially from players known to NOT have great ability in this regard and to a lone striker who is much smaller than their CBs suggests a VERY linmited attacking plan. Where are the chances that are created from incisive pass and move? Did we create any chances like the 3 or 4 Soton did in the first half? Do you remember Boruc having to make the sort of point-blank saves Lloris did in the first half?



I actually think the slight drop in defensive line helped us attack them as we were less on the back foot in the second half. We were better in the second half, but like against Arsenal a lot of huff and puff and little quality going forwards apart despite the three goals: one was a last-minute long ranger, two were from defensive mistakes that if we conceded would have led to calls that x and y player be dropped or sold.



Southampton were all over us until just after the second goal when we woke up/when Sherwood came down from the stands. I think Sherwood doesn't set up a clear plan and seems to be only good in reacting to how the opposition are playing. Not a skill to be underestimated mind you, but if we keep on starting like zombies (as though we have no plan) and wait until 25 mins/half-time to fix ourselves up/react to what the opposition is doing we could be 3 or 4 nil down before then. Anfield awaits and the omens are not good for the above reasons...

Slow starts and poor showings after EL games have been symptomatic of our play ALL season. It did not just start happening under TS.

Another of your black and white, totally unfair and historically inaccurate revisionisms.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Look at the players that STILL aren't available to TS yesterday:

Walker
Chiriches
Sandro
Capoue
Ade
Lamela

That's over half a team, most of whom would be first choice if fit.

Add in out of form/not fully fit

Paulie
Dawson
Townsend
Lennon
Dembele

And any fair minded person can see that his options are extremely limited. To come back against a decent Soton side from two goals down and score three goals from open play (no dodgy pen, no brilliant free kick) is nothing short of miraculous IMO for which TS deserves a lot of credit.

You always get injuries. We do in particular because we have such a sub-standard medical team. That's no worse really than it has been at any other point this season. We've got a good size and versatile squad


Plus, our remaining fixtures:

Liverpool (A)
Sunderland (H)
West Brom (A)
Fulham (H)
Stoke (A)
West Ham (A)
Aston Villa (H)

I'd say that SHOULD be only one more defeat by season's end. The last 3 home games should be 3 wins and even if we say we only win 1 of the away games and draw the others that is 14 more points, which means we finish on 70 points, the same number of points (and defeats) as in our first 4th place finish under Redknapp and our joint 2nd best ever Premiership season in terms of results/points.

That's about as easy as it comes in this league. We should be getting 18 points without getting out of second gear. It'll just be a case of how badly the hammering from Liverpool affects us.

I do think the points tally thing is a bit of a false economy (and I'm apply this to AVB as well as Timmeh). Basically the gap between the top 7 and the rest is becoming bigger and bigger. Your 78 points against the bottom 13 are becoming more and more gimmes. It's the 36 up for grabs against the other 6 that define your positioning between 1 and 7 now. And that's why we're battling for 5th-7th, as we've not beaten anyone ahead of us all season.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

spammers away and Stoke away are tough games for different reasons. They are not gimmes. If we avoid defeat in both il be happy. Sunderland, westbrom, Fulham and Villa should be 12 points in the bag
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

spammers away and Stoke away are tough games for different reasons. They are not gimmes. If we avoid defeat in both il be happy. Sunderland, westbrom, Fulham and Villa should be 12 points in the bag

West Ham is maybe tougher, but Stoke are a lot less of a rugby team under Hughes, and it’s the physical approach that traditionally causes us problems. West Ham are really lacking in quality though and we've got enough big players to be able to cope with them from set pieces. Dawson has always had Carroll in his pocket before.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

West Ham is the biggest must win left. Put them back in their place and maybe help them get relegated.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Disagree, and just because you don't have the same opinion as me does not mean you are the objective and reasoned one

- Southampton had better shape, the pass was always on for their players, they absolutely looked the better side

In the first half yes. In the second half absolutely not.

- So two awful FBs playing, you have a CB option that would allow one of the poor players to be replaced, you do nothing, but that's good coaching?

Southampton had one header on target in the second half. So I assume you mean awful in an attacking sense? What makes you think Kaboul would be any better than Naughton (who done alright going forward) going forward. Vertonghen may have done a better job than Rose, but as I said him and Kaboul were doing a pretty good job on Lambert, so why change?

The fact that Southampton only had one header on target in the 2nd half is enough to tell me that leaving things as they were and sorting the pressing out in midfield was a decent decision.

- Townsend hasn't worked recently, offers less than Lennon, but I guess in your words, might as well try something, again good coaching

Who would you have brought on?

- Dembele is a ball playing midfielder? dear Christ, no wonder we are disagreeing

In fairness, Dembele is a **** ball playing midfielder due to the fact he holds on to the ball far to long and doesn't know when to release it (I don't rate him). What would you describe Dembele as?

He's played Bentaleb in the ball playing role along with Eriksen in the past. I would, like you, probably like to see another good ball player in there more often, but I can see that it was a good substitution, validated by the fact that he scored the winning goal. If we'd started with Siggy there'd be across the board criticism due to his form recently (and that would have come from me too), but the facts are, it was a good substitution.


- Misjudging the flight of the ball maybe, not even understanding the defensive line and who you have played onside/offside is ****ing coaching mate

He didn't misunderstand the defensive line though (which is why defensively he looked solid enough in the 2nd half and Southampton only had one header on target), he clearly misjudged the flight of the ball. His second error, he fluffed a clearance. Other than that, as I said, his performance was probably what you could expect from a player who should be playing for a mid table team rather than a top 6 team.


- He will be shown the door, maybe not Monday, but in 7 or so weeks

He probably will be, as long as we bring someone in who we are going to give at least 3 seasons to I'm OK with that.

W, D, L, L, L is a decent job? (our last 5 games)

We're sitting 5th in the league and still in a shout of matching last season's point total. 5 games doesn't make a season, I'd prefer to rate him over all the games under him so far.

I'm going to just call him Teflon Tim from now on, for certain people it seems he can do nothing wrong and we should get rid of a dozen players because its obviously their fault, nothing to do with TS.

I'm not one of those people.

I still don't like how he seems to tinker with the team every game, I'm bemused why he seemingly dropped our best player for a period of time, he needs to learn to control himself on the touchline and his pre-post match interviews are pretty bad. But when you look at the cold hard facts, were pretty much where we should be in terms of our turn-over and the ability of our squad at the moment.

If there is a monumental collapse from now until the end of the season and we end up 8th I'll criticism him for the decisions he made contributing to that. If by some kind of miracle we win every single game, Arsenal fall away and we end up 4th, I'll give him credit for the decisions he made contributing to that. If we end up finishing 5th, I'll still give him credit for the decisions that contributed to that, but I'll also criticise him where I feel we could have done better.
 
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