Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[the dza]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I said if Sherwood qualifies for the CL. To me, qualifying for the CL in England is a bigger achievement than winning the league in Holland.

I agree. To finish 4th, we'd have to finish above Liverpool and Utd, and I think both sides would win the Dutch league (even Utd - Rooney, RVP and Mata would be too much for the dutch league imo),

 

[AberYid]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

LVG has always left a trail of protégés in his wake - Mourinho, Guardiola, FDB….

If he wins two league titles in two years with us then hands the reins over to Blind or Kliuvert (his latest assistants), even Freund, no one will complain.

Hypothetically assume the following:
Assume that LVG takes over.
Assume that Tim is his assistant.
Assume that LVG is here for 3 seasons.
Assume we win the league in that time.
Assume Tim then takes over.

What would you think?

 

[ArnieArdiles]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Yes, of course you need to grind out results in certain games, and I wouldn't expect them all to be pretty and fancy. But to at least expect us to wholeheartedly try to attack a team placed well below us on the table throughout a game at home would be a bare minimum (something I failed to see us doing in several of our games with AVB in charge, for instance).

Daisuk - Under AVB we were set up, home or away, to dominate the opponent with a high line defence, prefering to play in our opponents half so it can't be said we we were defensive. Our failings under the Portugese coach were in the final third, where it just didn't happen for us. I also felt we didn't make best use of our counter attacking capabilities.

 

[ArnieArdiles]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I still hate the fact that last year Chelsea fans harped on about being the best football team in Europe when they played the final with 9 men behind the ball at all times and only won it because Bayern couldn't take penalties (and Gomes was ****). If it was us in that game, I'd still feel dirty about it because in reality one team turned up to play and the other to do nothing other than defend. Mourinho's team last night played football despite defending for long periods. I wouldn't enjoy it but could hack it, so long as it only tended to be against the big teams. Winning the league playing like Pulis' Stoke is not what I want to see Spurs do.

When we beat AC Milan 1-0 over two legs in the round of sixteen of the CL did you feel dirty ? Our performances in the two games were defensive were they not ?

Personally, I would've been happy if in the quarters, we had managed to beat Real Madrid over two legs in the same manner .

 

[ArnieArdiles]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I have to say, o find this attitude incredibly weird. It seems to me a bit like a guy thinking about getting with a supermodel, never knowing what it feels like but deciding that their current gf, a good looking girl but good jn bed, is amazing and they wouldn't want to experience the other.

I have never met a fan of a title winning club from any country who cared too much what the team played like. If we won the title this season, we wouldn't remember the narrow 1-0 wins vs hull and crystal palace or the manner of those victories. Down the road, a we'd remember is our players lifting the Pl trophy at the end of the season and the happiness that would come with that.

Fundamentally, I think most fans are almost exactly the same. They want to see their club win and if they do that on a regular enough basis, to won trophies too.

This is all a moot point anyway because it's very rare to win the title playing in a consistently boring way. People babble on about mourinhos first Chelsea team. They weren't boring at all, they scored a record number of goals I believe in that first season they won the league. Games just went competitive because once they went a goal up, their defence was so good it was effectively game over. I wouldn't mind my team winning 3/4-0 every other weekend on the way to the title.

This.

FA Cup Final 1987 Coventry City 3 Tottenham Hotspur 2 ... League Cup Final 1999 Leicester City 0 Tottenham Hotspur 1

Which of the two warms our hearts most?

 

[Baleforce]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

the look on Robbie savages face when Nielsen scored

 

[90291Spur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

This.

FA Cup Final 1987 Coventry City 3 Tottenham Hotspur 2 ... League Cup Final 1999 Leicester City 0 Tottenham Hotspur 1

Which of the two warms our hearts most?

I bloody well knew we scored too early that day.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Daisuk - Under AVB we were set up, home or away, to dominate the opponent with a high line defence, prefering to play in our opponents half so it can't be said we we were defensive. Our failings under the Portugese coach were in the final third, where it just didn't happen for us. I also felt we didn't make best use of our counter attacking capabilities.

Good to see someone else point this out.

Never understood how some guys can call a team that plays one of the highest defensive lines in the league and presses the opposition into their own half 'defensive'. Stoke under Pulis were defensive, Spurs under AVB weren't.

It was controlled. It was patient. It could be restrained at times before bursting into life. It can't be called defensive.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Hypothetically assume the following:
Assume that LVG takes over.
Assume that Tim is his assistant.
Assume that LVG is here for 3 seasons.
Assume we win the league in that time.
Assume Tim then takes over.

What would you think?

I'd still think he was a ****, but I would concede he would be an awful lot more qualified than he is now.

Realistically, there's no way his ego and machiavellian tendencies would allow him to work under LVG.

The thing he could do that would gain my respect, would be to go and manage Blackburn for 3 years and learn his trade.

 

[diego_maradona]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I'd still think he was a ****, but I would concede he would be an awful lot more qualified than he is now.

Realistically, there's no way his ego and machiavellian tendencies would allow him to work under LVG.

The thing he could do that would gain my respect, would be to go and manage Blackburn for 3 years and learn his trade.

Would he learn more under the tutelage of Van Gaal though?

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Would he learn more under the tutelage of Van Gaal though?

I guess it depends how open-minded he is. My instinct is he's a school of hard knocks type of a person rather than a pupil.

 

[90291Spur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I guess it depends how open-minded he is. My instinct is he's a school of hard knocks type of a person rather than a pupil.

Being the head coach and then being demoted to work beneath another head coach is a pretty hard knock.

 

[harr1984]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Being the head coach and then being demoted to work beneath another head coach is a pretty hard knock.

If the head coach replacing him was average then yes, but if it was someone of Van Gaal's standing Im sure he could look at it positively....

 

[Daisuk]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Daisuk - Under AVB we were set up, home or away, to dominate the opponent with a high line defence, prefering to play in our opponents half so it can't be said we we were defensive. Our failings under the Portugese coach were in the final third, where it just didn't happen for us. I also felt we didn't make best use of our counter attacking capabilities.

I never said we were defensive, but we focused too much on keeping possession rather than trying to break down our opponent. We'd pass sideways and backwards rather than play a risky pass or go on a risky run. We somehow thought, according to AVB's philosophy, that we'd drain our opponent's energy and then hit them when they were weak. That obviously didn't work out very often. But let's not get into that whole discussion again, we've had it before. I was just pointing out that I was disappointed and somewhat baffled by the fact that we didn't attack with more force than we did against the weaker teams under AVB.

 

[Hashegotthesackyet?]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Good to see someone else point this out.

Never understood how some guys can call a team that plays one of the highest defensive lines in the league and presses the opposition into their own half 'defensive'. Stoke under Pulis were defensive, Spurs under AVB weren't.

It was controlled. It was patient. It could be restrained at times before bursting into life. It can't be called defensive.

I liked AVB, as a bloke, really wanted him to do well, especially after the Chelsea situation. I say this, because there often seems to be very polarised opinions about certain topics, and then assumptions about angles, agendas, etc.
But whilst I agree with you about the high line, and yes, it can be argued that it's not necessarily defensive, it's hardly offensive when you compress the opposition back into their own half, but then pass all the way back, often, deep into our own half, or even back to the keeper, for a variety of reasons.
I can't sugar coat it, with AVB, we were ****, in terms of effective offensive play.

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I guess it depends how open-minded he is. My instinct is he's a school of hard knocks type of a person rather than a pupil.

You're not very open minded about his abilities as a coach though and had written him off a long time before he got near the first team. We could be playing the best football in the league (not pretending that we are) and you would be talking about 4-4-2, doesn't know what he is doing, dinosaur...

 

[metalgear]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

nevertheless coaching u21s and real men is vastly different.

physique wise, the u21s are all very similarly built and weigh roughly the same, usually lightweight. as bodies mature and physical prowess heightens, so does the game change drastically.

go watch olympic football and see the huge difference the U23 players make to the team.

sherwood may be proven at u21 coaching, but first team coaching is another step up... not to mention more demanding players with real options.

 

[90291Spur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

If the head coach replacing him was average then yes, but if it was someone of Van Gaal's standing Im sure he could look at it positively....

I think that most people who are Alpha types (which Sherwood clearly is as he took the job and some might say manufactured it) would not take a demotion to work under anybody. Going from dictating style of play, training schedules, team selection to being someone's assistant would most likely not be acceptable.

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

nevertheless coaching u21s and real men is vastly different.

physique wise, the u21s are all very similarly built and weigh roughly the same, usually lightweight. as bodies mature and physical prowess heightens, so does the game change drastically.

go watch olympic football and see the huge difference the U23 players make to the team.

sherwood may be proven at u21 coaching, but first team coaching is another step up... not to mention more demanding players with real options.

I agree. What period of time is it reasonable to give before we can really judge whether he has been able to bridge that gap?

 

[Modric THFC]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Good to see someone else point this out.

Never understood how some guys can call a team that plays one of the highest defensive lines in the league and presses the opposition into their own half 'defensive'. Stoke under Pulis were defensive, Spurs under AVB weren't.

It was controlled. It was patient. It could be restrained at times before bursting into life. It can't be called defensive.

Controlling the game just to get possession of the ball, keep it with no intention to do anything with it, is defensive.
Spain at the last euros played defensive a lot of the time.