Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[Viper]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

If Sherwood ever wins the league I'll vote Green Party at the next election. I promise.

Tim Sherwood can't win the league without Alan Shearer. FACT.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

If Sherwood ever wins the league I'll vote Green Party at the next election. I promise.

I'll qualify that with "as manager" just in case any of you clever ****ers try to point out that he already has

 

[Spurmac1974]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

We competed in that game (first half especially), but kept shooting ourselves in the foot at the back. Yesterday we didn't even compete.

Cant agree with that we may have had possession, but did nothing with it! We competed much more yesterday, if people cant see that the decisions changed the course of the game then Im not sure what game you were watching.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

That just illustrates the lack of rational analysis.

If you are to isolate the variables, why would you choose west ham? But then if your main aim is to show someone in bad light, the exercise is pointless anyway. Why not step back, remove your bias, and try and evaluate Sherwood's actions in a fair balanced manner?

This 100%. Scarra and others seem to have lost all objectivity as far as TS is concerned. Everything is viewed through pre-conceived bias starting even before a ball had been kicked under the new manager. Strange I know, but there you have it.

 

[Raziel]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

This 100%. Scarra and others seem to have lost all objectivity as far as TS is concerned. Everything is viewed through pre-conceived bias starting even before a ball had been kicked under the new manager. Strange I know, but there you have it.

And the argument has been, its not strange, because all things considered, he is no where near qualified for the job, Levy "took a punt"

The people who seem to be obsessed with TS, are clearly not evaluating TS either, lets look at the facts

- Lets start with whatever we state about TS has nothing to do with AVB
- TS has had good results, but has also had an amazingly nice schedule of winnable games
- His cup results have been poor
- His two results (Scum/City) where we really could have gotten some confidence were poor
- Defense still looks terribly shaky against everyone

There is an argument to be said that all the "upturn" has simply been Ade came back in, showed Ade Mk1 (one of the best strikers in the world) and once his form slowed, the team looks dire again.

The big test is today, if we really don't supplement LB and striker positions, then TS, Lavy and the club are clueless.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

This 100%. Scarra and others seem to have lost all objectivity as far as TS is concerned. Everything is viewed through pre-conceived bias starting even before a ball had been kicked under the new manager. Strange I know, but there you have it.

When AVB was hired:

> I think Saudi Sportswashing Machine got the serious run of the ball last season and will not be a serious force this.

> I really worry for Nice Guy Brendan at Liverpool and can see it not going right for him, at least not next term.

> I sense **** are still brittle as hell and flagging, despite new signings.

> Chelsea have a lot of old players now, RdiM was sacked by WBA and I don't see them as that scary at all.

I think AVB's technical approach is incredibly suited to the current Spurs squad, who I think will be very receptive to a codified version of the great football they've already been playing.

Hence, I think 3rd is a very real possibility next season and I'll be disappointed if we don't pinch it.

I sincerely hope you are right. Dont see it myself personally. man u, man c and chelsea are really nailed on for top three. **** have already made two quality signings and still have RVP. I think Rodgers will get Liverpool playing. That means 6th at best for us as a team in transition. As I said, I hope you are right and I am wrong though,

Exactly my point. We have a huge rebuilding ahead of us. Let no-one be under any illusion of the scale of the task Arry left as his legacy.

Kaboul, Bale, Parker, Sandro, Dawson, Friedel, Ekotto, Lennon, Walker and Livermore at the very least will all be here and probably add Vertonghen, Sigurdsson and 1 or 2 new strikers to the mix. Don't why you mentioned Nelsen, losing him won't be a massive setback. Ditto for Jenas, Rose, Bassong, Pienaar etc!

Liverpool have to rebuild too so there's no way we should accept finishing below them.

Do you really think that group of players is better than the ****, Liverpool and Chelsea squads.?If you do, I am afraid you are delusional. You base your assessments/hopes entirely on new players. That is just wishful thinking at present. We dont have CL or a CL budget to attract the best. We lost Ade and probably Modric. If you think that AVB can wave a magic wand and suddenly deliver 4th then you must be some kind of optimist to say the least.

Three months into the season:

Can anyone point to anything positive that AVB has brought to the team?

For the life of me, I am struggling to see any improvement anywhere at all. His negative attitude and "have what we hold" tactic of ceding possession is not the way I want my team to play. One up front and two DMs at home has just proved turgid to watch. Losing goals in the last 10 minutes and not scoring any in that time is like having a constant kick in the gut.

Lets "To dare is to do". He talks that way but certainly isnt delivering it at the moment.

I really hope there is some method in the madness, but I cant see it yet.

If I have a world class restaurant where a master chef previously prepared Michelin star meals using prime organic ingredients from some of the finest gourmet suppliers in the world of food, and if I then sack this chef for whatever reason, hire a new one, and tell him he will be able to use ingredients only from Tesco and Iceland Foods, would you still expect the same gourmet approach to food preparation?

Judge the man when he has a full set of tools. Everyone is disappointed, I'm right there with you, but the sooner people stop berating Clint Dempsey for not being Rafa Van der ****ing Vaart, the better!

BTW mate, you talk of 'negativity' and I have to say that whilst again, it is frustrating, what's even more frustrating is to see the negative attitude of some supporters. I'm not saying we should have a party with jelly and ice-cream, but what I am saying is that IMHO, we should show a little more understanding of context, perspective and the situation currently.

Your points are taken Steff. That is why I am not rushing to judgement on AVB yet. However there are certain things that I dont like (with our without the finest ingredients) and which are causing me concern. To continue your analagy, if the chef continues to burn the meat, spoil a cooked egg or even let the veg boil over, you have to begin to question his methods.

My concerns relate to:

1. Bringing all 11 men back for corners and free kicks
2. Our continued inability to score directly from freekicks(by shooting with any accuracy) or corners, where our players dont seem to attack the ball or have any pre-arranged plan where to run or what to do
3. Negative tactics - 2DMs and 1 Striker even at home against middling sides
4. Ceding possession and our "have what we hold" attitude when in front, rather than going for more goals
5 The last 10 minutes - we have now "lost" goals and points against virtually every team we have played in that time - and not scored a single goal ourselves in that period ourselves
6. The lack of any understanding between Lennon and Walker. They continue to play like complete strangers
7. The poor substitutions (Defoe off against Wigan was a classic)
8. The fact we cant seem to adapt to a team playing three centre backs (Wigan and City)
9. Bale and Lennon are two of the best wingers in the PL, yet we dont play them as wingers and give Lennon too many defensive duties
10 Selection decisions - Ade/Defoe and Brad/Lloris

While I am prepare to give AVB time and wait till he has a fully fit squad (and hopefully some beneficial new additions), I am not liking what I am seeing so far and again, I ask the question:

What areas has AVB improved us?

AVB lost Modric and VDV and wanted Moutinho and Willian to replace them, he got neither. Until Levy backs him fully, then judging him on the squad he's been given(which some people forget is weaker than last season's) is hardly fair.

Agree with you.

But no-one has still answered my central question, in what area has AVB improved us so far? Tactics, formation, substitutions, set plays, fitness, passing, goals scored, goals not conceded, last 10 minutes, desire, ..........Anything, anything at all - please help me to grasp at any straws of hope for the future?

We press better. But it doesn't mean much if the players aren't fitter.

I am not even sure that is right - I certainly havent noticed us pressing in pairs or as a team. Parker was best at doing this last year anyway.

Perhaps he's issuing the right tactics but inferior players and similar passengers are unable to carry those out on the field of play.

Similar to teaching a dumb dog a trick it can't comprehend

Hugely patronising comment. Funny how Jol and Rodgers got the best out of Dempsey and Sigg. They dont even look like players for us. Moyes inspires average players to play above themselves. They are fit and fight for the cause to the end.

Anyway, a good manager would work with what he has - not try and force a system on those unsuited to it.

Yep. I was under the impression that Harry was a dunce when it came to tactics and AVB was very good in this area. Apart from the United game, he looks a bit lacking also in this area so far.

At least Harry knew that at home you attack opponents. Not sure AVB has learnt this particular lesson yet.

Good questions...Numbers 1 & 2 don't bother me personally right now, especially as 2 is not strictly accurate (we are, at least, scoring from corners and set-pieces these days as opposed to, say, last year). 3, yes, I think there are times when he could be more adventurous but again, his first priority given the calibre of squad he has versus injuries is to be secure, thus why he sets up that way. i think he could certainly do with being a bit braver (personally I'd have started Carroll yesterday, doesn't mean I don't see what he's doing). 5 is a concern, and one I believe he will resolve in the next month or so. With regards to yesterday, we had our fill-in left back (who despite what anyone says is a wonderful CB not LB) tiring visibly after weeks on end of football with rest, and we made a defensive shuffle that I would question, yes. Of course I could go into how I wished Daws was better and Brad had not let another one go through his hands, but that's not the point. 6 relates a lot to Walker, who is struggling without Kaboul and the higher line idea AVB is trying to bring in where he actually often ends up as more of a wing-back. 7, well, we can debate the Wigan sub all we want (JD wasn't doing anything) but yesterday two of his subs were enforced by injury. 8. this is something new he is facing, and I suspect he will have sorted out a solution soon. 9, so you want us to simply be a 4-4-2 side? With our current midfield? 10. Ade has given him no choice for a while, I agree re: Brad and Lloris, I wish he'd just go Hugo.

Where has he improved us...I believe he IS improvING our ability to be a side that can play without relying on just one or two players (we are having to learn to do that) I believe he is improving Bale and there's no argument on Lennon, and I believe he has improved the levels of structure of the club on and off the pitch. he is building a framework which I believe will see long-term success as opposed to short time flash bang for the back.

Steff, I really, really admire your positivity and really really hope you are right. I hope that it comes good for AVB, which of course means it comes good for all of us.

I just cant see any evidence of green shoots at the moment to cling onto. And in the meantime, I am being bored witless by the turgid football we are playing. Entertaining it is not.

Its simple.

Lets try and win games not just try not to lose them.

Bring back the entertainment. Turgidocity aint working.

I accept we have key players missing (and didnt get other potential ones) but it is the attitude of mind that is so depressing at the moment.

I am prepared to give AVB time, but I just want to be entertained. At the moment I am not being entertained but rather being kicked in the gut on a regular basis.

Please please please can AVB note the Tottenham motto "To dare is to do" and act accordingly.

I want the manner of performance to improve and to have a team to be proud of. Moyes, on much smaller resourses and much inferior players, (even compared to the ones we have uninjured) has created a great team ethos and never say die approch which has paid dividends. We could do worse than take a leaf out of their book in this regard.

There are obvious flaws both in how Sherwood got the job and what he's doing, but I guess we should wait, what is it, another 6 weeks before commenting on it?

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Although we had more than 3 times as many shots in that match from "defensive" AVB.

We also had 1.5 times as many passes and at a completion rate of 85% rather than 79%. 49% possession vs 40%

Both matches were ****, we were just a little less **** (combined with City knowing how to find the goal) under AVB.

Didn't we have 11 players for AVB's match against city.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Although we had more than 3 times as many shots in that match from "defensive" AVB.

We also had 1.5 times as many passes and at a completion rate of 85% rather than 79%. 49% possession vs 40%

Both matches were ****, we were just a little less **** (combined with City knowing how to find the goal) under AVB.

Is this a Spurs forum or a maths forum? WTF?

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

And the argument has been, its not strange, because all things considered, he is no where near qualified for the job, Levy "took a punt"

The people who seem to be obsessed with TS, are clearly not evaluating TS either, lets look at the facts

- Lets start with whatever we state about TS has nothing to do with AVB
- TS has had good results, but has also had an amazingly nice schedule of winnable games
- His cup results have been poor
- His two results (Scum/City) where we really could have gotten some confidence were poor
- Defense still looks terribly shaky against everyone

There is an argument to be said that all the "upturn" has simply been Ade came back in, showed Ade Mk1 (one of the best strikers in the world) and once his form slowed, the team looks dire again.

The big test is today, if we really don't supplement LB and striker positions, then TS, Lavy and the club are clueless.

Harsh and unfair assessment from a normally very fair poster.

Amazing Schedule of games? Well we had a team short of confidence especially in front of goal suddenly scoring and creating goals rather than scraping wins with dubious penalties against teams we should have been beating comfortably. We'd also just taken a heavy, demoralising defeat aginst Liverpool at home. We have seen an upturn in the form of Eriksen, Lennon and Dembele and Ade playing. His first cup result - He'd only been in the job 48 hours? Can hardly hold that against him. His second cup game - Against an in form scum team at the Emirates, an arena where we are renowned for douing well and where they needed a goal from a Rose mistake to make the score look comfortable. I'll give you the defence against City and Scum but they've been ok against the other teams we've played, but then lets look at the facts he has lost Sandro and Vertonghen, while Capoue has not looked ready for PL.

Let's be clear up til we lost Rose - it was only 1-0 no matter how much possession they had, we were coming into the game. Then Dembele got injured, we lost an important midfielder to replace with one who simply has not been good enough. We pegged them back with a perfectly good equaliser which was disallowed and then were down to 10 men and conceded a penalty both of which were dubious. That must surely put some perspective on the result?

AS for the bit about a striker and Left back is levy supposed to magic that one out of thin air? we bought 7 players in the summer only 2 of which have been close to fitting in. BTW Man utd are also looking for a LB so I presume we will be in direct competition with them for one.

By all means hold Sherwood to acount but one has to be fair in that account.

 

[camspur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I've been watching us since the late 80s and 'lambs to the slaughter' or 'soft-centred' would be far more apt.

We're really on the slippery slope to becoming the new Aston Villa at this moment in time.

So a newcomer to the ranks then, I'd enjoyed more than ten years of the mighty Spurs, support them through thick and thin and this is far from being the worst team we've had and miles away from the worst manager.

As for becoming the next Villa why not give us all a break and go support them.

 

[spurs' magna carter]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

thought this was a good piece, might bring some people's moral up a bit.

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foo...still-too-good-to-be-counted-out-9096361.html

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Didn't we have 11 players for AVB's match against city.

I don't know.

Kaboul pretty spectacularly announced his retirement on the pitch.

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I don't know.

Kaboul pretty spectacularly announced his retirement on the pitch.

:ross:

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I don't know.

Kaboul pretty spectacularly announced his retirement on the pitch.

:ross::ross::ross:

Sad thing is, it's probably true

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

When AVB was hired:






Three months into the season:

















There are obvious flaws both in how Sherwood got the job and what he's doing, but I guess we should wait, what is it, another 6 weeks before commenting on it?

A magnum opus indeed! But what exactly is your point?

 

[DTA]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

A magnum opus indeed! But what exactly is your point?

I think he is accusing you of double standards... problem is that compared with the views expressed by Scara and Gutterboy on Tim, your views on AVB (the ones quoted) sound almost complementary.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Jeez Jordinho doesn't half enjoy digging out posts from 453756456 years ago.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

A magnum opus indeed! But what exactly is your point?

I asked the same question when he did the same thing to me. Digging out random posts that didn't even prove the point he was trying to make.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

100%. And people wonder why the big clubs always have decisions go their way.

I'm beginning to think it's a policy mandated from higher up, because our last few managers have failed to get stuck in at times when I felt taking a 3 match touchline ban to show some balls would've been very very smart long-term. In Sherwood's defence, I think complaining last night would've looked a bit silly given the context of the match plus he is fighting to keep a job he might not have regardless, thus he will be minding his Ps and Qs…no, the biggest opportunity missed from last night would be NOT address our glaring need for a left-hand side IMO.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Strange how all our recent managers have been so easy with officials. Maybe its a directive from the club.

Apologies to you mate, wrote my response without seeing you had already raised this potential point.