Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

oh come on. Maybe Sherwood needs a full season, a whole pre season, some of his own players too, in order to help improve Tottenhams fortunes.

Tim's made a rod for his own back with his 'football is a simple game' and 'managers always talk about the project. The truth is you win games or you get sacked' comments. His political skill and persona have gotten him into this position to be given a chance. If he delivers, he's going to be hailed as a damn fine young coach, who backed up his claims with ability and as a master stroke appointment by Levy. If we stumble into 6th, Im pretty sure he will be gone and we will bring a proven winner like Van Gaal in.

That is the stake he is playing at. He clearly believe he was worth the opportunity and now he has to deliver. But if he doesn't, we aren't Swansea, we are Spurs. We are going to bring a winner in as give him the backing because frankly considering past managerial achievements, he has more chance than Sherwood of succeeding. Sherwood won't have, until the end of this season, any proof of his ability as a Head Coach. That's why he's only been given 18 months and not a standard 3 years. It's an easy get out for if incase the experiment doesn't yield the exceptional results that are potentially there.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I agree with most of that. I'm not sure I agree that AVB is incapable of getting his point across, but that's another argument.

So I can add you to the list of those who agree that a manager has to be intelligent?

In a football sense yes. Obviously you have to know how to deal with the media and people in general so intelligence only goes so far. I'm not super intelligent but I'm also not thick, I've got about an average IQ and intelligence, got good GCSE's and A Levels. But I know and am friends with people who are very intelligent but some of them are aloof and think they are above everybody else, but when it comes to dealing with people socially, they are inept in that sense.

I can overlook a manager's background and overall intelligence as long as he knows the game inside out and knows how to manage people, which not everyone can do.

 

[screen nayim]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I agree with most of that. I'm not sure I agree that AVB is incapable of getting his point across, but that's another argument.

So I can add you to the list of those who agree that a manager has to be intelligent?

To be honest I never understood a word of what he was on about.

He could spout football bollix in 25 different languages though.





Seeing it all from block 29.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Can anyone show me something that AVB said that they REALLY couldn't understand?

 

[screen nayim]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Can anyone show me something that AVB said that they REALLY couldn't understand?

No offence, but can't be @rsed





Seeing it all from block 29.

 

[Raziel]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

That's a very real divide - you can see it pretty clearly on this forum, and as this place requires a computer/phone to access it, we've already filtered out the least intelligent.

I believe it's also the way many English footballers think too and that's where the divide becomes a real problem. English players will, like many fans, automatically trust someone like Redknapp (sorry, but he's the best example), whereas someone like AVB who doesn't hide his intelligence is automatically thought of as untrustworthy.

So how does a manager put across complicated, intelligent tactical ideas to the foreign contingent of a team without alienating the traditionalists? That's a genuine question, I have no idea!

I'm glad at least you see it. I think you pick an approach and the type of player that goes with it.

Personally (and the other debate is a larger one, maybe something for Random), I look at our appointments under Levy -> Santini (first of new thought process with DoF), Jol, Ramos, HR, AVB, Sherwood. Argument to be made there about that being = Tactician, Motivator, Tactician, Motivator, Tactician, Motivator, the club/Levy needs to make up his mind.

Either we believe in a greater than the sum of the parts approach via systems, nutrition, pushing all the possible boundaries and re-thinking the game or
We believe in maximizing the parts by "simplifying" and motivating.

The solution you chose may impact the players you buy. Interesting that Wenger was an early player in having a system at the Scum and very early ended up with almost no English contingent, is that a coincidence or did he realize that didn't work with English players who had already come through the system?

By the way, by classing HR/Sherwood in Motivator brackets, I'm not suggesting that they are bumbling idiots, I suggesting that their approach is not going to be anything that hasn't been done before and not fundamentally aimed at breaking new ground approach wise.

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I'm glad at least you see it. I think you pick an approach and the type of player that goes with it.

Personally (and the other debate is a larger one, maybe something for Random), I look at our appointments under Levy -> Santini (first of new thought process with DoF), Jol, Ramos, HR, AVB, Sherwood. Argument to be made there about that being = Tactician, Motivator, Tactician, Motivator, Tactician, Motivator, the club/Levy needs to make up his mind.

Either we believe in a greater than the sum of the parts approach via systems, nutrition, pushing all the possible boundaries and re-thinking the game or
We believe in maximizing the parts by "simplifying" and motivating.

The solution you chose may impact the players you buy. Interesting that Wenger was an early player in having a system at the Scum and very early ended up with almost no English contingent, is that a coincidence or did he realize that didn't work with English players who had already come through the system?

By the way, by classing HR/Sherwood in Motivator brackets, I'm not suggesting that they are bumbling idiots, I suggesting that their approach is not going to be anything that hasn't been done before and not fundamentally aimed at breaking new ground approach wise.

Fantastic post. I agree that a lack of a long term strategy at the top of the club has been a hindrance although I hope that in time Sherwood shows that he is more than just a motivator.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

To finish the last post. Why should AVb get the benefit of the doubt over Levy who had backed him more than any other of his managers? I disagree with Jurgen, I believe that AVB was sacked for a combination of of football and non footballing reasons. It seemed at the end he could pick a fight in an empty room. It would be almost impossible to keep someone like that in charge.

How do you know what evidence Levy had? Why should AVB get the benefit of

I know because there cannot be any evidence. Sherwood had never managed a proper team before, so Levy was basing his decision on Sherwood telling him he can do the job - I could tell Levy I'd be the best manager ever and probably do a good job convincing him. Doesn't mean I'd be any good at the actual job though.

Just to reiterate, the point I'm making is not that it was wrong to sack AVB, that's another debate, but that having sacked him, appointing Sherwood was a bad decision because of the lack of experience if nothing else.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

We aren't big spending sheikh backed loadsamoney club. If we do want to give someone within the club time and support, and they do show success - it's a win win for everyone.

Let's all hope and pray that Sherwood continues his fab start - and that we get more first teamers back soon.

We don't give professionals from outside the club enough time. What makes you think we'll give amateurs from inside the time required?

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

In a football sense yes. Obviously you have to know how to deal with the media and people in general so intelligence only goes so far. I'm not super intelligent but I'm also not thick, I've got about an average IQ and intelligence, got good GCSE's and A Levels. But I know and am friends with people who are very intelligent but some of them are aloof and think they are above everybody else, but when it comes to dealing with people socially, they are inept in that sense.

I can overlook a manager's background and overall intelligence as long as he knows the game inside out and knows how to manage people, which not everyone can do.

That's kind of my point though. In order to know the game inside out (with the number of constant variables one has to juggle), a pretty big intellect is a prerequisite.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Can anyone show me something that AVB said that they REALLY couldn't understand?

No offence, but can't be @rsed

I think that's a "no" then.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I'm glad at least you see it. I think you pick an approach and the type of player that goes with it.

Personally (and the other debate is a larger one, maybe something for Random), I look at our appointments under Levy -> Santini (first of new thought process with DoF), Jol, Ramos, HR, AVB, Sherwood. Argument to be made there about that being = Tactician, Motivator, Tactician, Motivator, Tactician, Motivator, the club/Levy needs to make up his mind.

Either we believe in a greater than the sum of the parts approach via systems, nutrition, pushing all the possible boundaries and re-thinking the game or
We believe in maximizing the parts by "simplifying" and motivating.

The solution you chose may impact the players you buy. Interesting that Wenger was an early player in having a system at the Scum and very early ended up with almost no English contingent, is that a coincidence or did he realize that didn't work with English players who had already come through the system?

By the way, by classing HR/Sherwood in Motivator brackets, I'm not suggesting that they are bumbling idiots, I suggesting that their approach is not going to be anything that hasn't been done before and not fundamentally aimed at breaking new ground approach wise.

Fantastic post. I agree that a lack of a long term strategy at the top of the club has been a hindrance although I hope that in time Sherwood shows that he is more than just a motivator.

I agree, great post.

I'd go a little further too though.

I think the motivator approach will only get us to where we should be based on spend (over the long term). So if none of the richer teams **** up, the best we can hope for under that approach is 6th I think? Top 4 plus Liverpool have more money and it's likely to stay that way.

Maybe we can overtake Liverpool when we build the new stadium but then we're paying the debt off so we'll could drop to 7th or 8th for a while.

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I agree, great post.

I'd go a little further too though.

I think the motivator approach will only get us to where we should be based on spend (over the long term). So if none of the richer teams **** up, the best we can hope for under that approach is 6th I think? Top 4 plus Liverpool have more money and it's likely to stay that way.

Maybe we can overtake Liverpool when we build the new stadium but then we're paying the debt off so we'll could drop to 7th or 8th for a while.

I've made the point on here a couple of times that motivation can only work so many times before its impact starts to diminish.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I'm glad at least you see it. I think you pick an approach and the type of player that goes with it.

Personally (and the other debate is a larger one, maybe something for Random), I look at our appointments under Levy -> Santini (first of new thought process with DoF), Jol, Ramos, HR, AVB, Sherwood. Argument to be made there about that being = Tactician, Motivator, Tactician, Motivator, Tactician, Motivator, the club/Levy needs to make up his mind.

Either we believe in a greater than the sum of the parts approach via systems, nutrition, pushing all the possible boundaries and re-thinking the game or
We believe in maximizing the parts by "simplifying" and motivating.

The solution you chose may impact the players you buy. Interesting that Wenger was an early player in having a system at the Scum and very early ended up with almost no English contingent, is that a coincidence or did he realize that didn't work with English players who had already come through the system?

By the way, by classing HR/Sherwood in Motivator brackets, I'm not suggesting that they are bumbling idiots, I suggesting that their approach is not going to be anything that hasn't been done before and not fundamentally aimed at breaking new ground approach wise.

You do make good points but there is no reason why someone who is a 'motivator' can't do all the things in bold (and that is the difference between the truely great managers). There's also no reason why a 'system' has to be complex and designed by a perceived intellectual. If it works, it works.

I appreciate that you are making it as black and white as 'motivator vrs tactician' to illustrate your point, but surely we are looking for a tactical genius who can install a system throughout the club that works and motivate the players so that we get the best out of that system whilst ensuring that their nutrition and recovery is always on track.

Not asking for much are we...............:lol:

 

[screen nayim]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think that's a "no" then.

If it gives you that warm feeling of intellectual superiority, then fine.



Seeing it all from block 29.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

If it gives you that warm feeling of intellectual superiority, then fine.



Seeing it all from block 29.

Most things do. People acquiescing on an internet forum, not so much.

Maybe the view's just not very good from block 29

 

[Roland Beurre]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Can anyone show me something that AVB said that they REALLY couldn't understand?

Should the players have taken up this Groupon offer?

http://www.groupon.co.uk/deals/events/quirky-january-deal/32474708

Office types tired of being brushed off or ignored by their superiors can managementise their verbal output in the unique vocabulary of leadership. Students will be taught how to break out of Box Land and swim on over to Creative City, mastering new paradigms of expression, formulating horizontal synergies and breaking down the pillars of normal, comprehensible syntax and meaning. A smorgasbord of globally relevant cross-platform industry-standard blue-sky content is delivered across 250 modules and designed to be punctuated by 20-minute power naps after each bite of the e-learning bagel. Learn how to deep dive, knock things out of the park and generally part the dressing gown on the hitherto impenetrable linguistics of overpaid men in ties.

It's a very expressive proposition but time delineated in its availability.

 

[camspur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I know because there cannot be any evidence. Sherwood had never managed a proper team before, so Levy was basing his decision on Sherwood telling him he can do the job - I could tell Levy I'd be the best manager ever and probably do a good job convincing him. Doesn't mean I'd be any good at the actual job though.

Just to reiterate, the point I'm making is not that it was wrong to sack AVB, that's another debate, but that having sacked him, appointing Sherwood was a bad decision because of the lack of experience if nothing else.

You're always asking for quotes and proof, can you substantiate the highlighted "fact" you've posted.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

You're always asking for quotes and proof, can you substantiate the highlighted "fact" you've posted.

Yes I can. There is nothing else upon which Levy could have based his decision, Occam's razor does the rest.

 

[camspur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Yes I can. There is nothing else upon which Levy could have based his decision, Occam's razor does the rest.

Either that or you don't have any. I'll settle on the latter "If three things are not enough to verify an affirmative proposition about things, a fourth must be added, and so on."