Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Jesus H Christ, are we still having the class/intellectual debate?

Under AVB we were timid, toothless, devoid of any flair or creativity going forward, looked dodgy at the back despite employing an unbelievably negative system. He overcomplicated things to the extreme. I'm sorry, if he was such a brilliant manager then he wouldn't have alienated players at Chelsea and got booted out within a few months and then moved on to Spurs and again be sacked early into his reign because of the same failings at Chelsea i.e. slow, ponderous buildup play and freezing players out of the team/squad.

Under Sherwood we actually get more than one player into the box when attacking, are attacking teams with more intent not just waiting until the opposition is tired in the 82nd minuted and 55 seconds when it's the optimal time to break down the opposition's structure and are playing with a sense of freedom that the last manager stifled.

Was Alex Ferguson an intellectual? He knew the game inside out and knew how to tactically outthink his managerial counterparts, but he was also a no nonsense type who also encouraged an attacking style of play. He didn't feel the need to let everyone know how many big words he had in his vocabulary and bore the media to tears with his interviews.

My feelings too. Very well put.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

personal preference I guess, personally I'd rather three 0-0s than two 5-4 defeats and a 5-4 win, being difficult to beat is what wins league titles and you'd be confident in your defense for the next game rather than terrified of a what happens if you go goal shy

I appreciate that many people would prefer the other scenario though

Put me in the other camp. While I would not happy with two defeats, 13 goals for in three games trumps zero every time. Most half decent managers can set up a team to park the bus and stop the opposition scoring, however scoring regularly and often is themost difficult thing in football. It is far easier to sort out a non functioning defense than an impotent attack.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Put me in the other camp. While I would not happy with two defeats, 13 goals for in three games trumps zero every time. Most half decent managers can set up a team to park the bus and stop the opposition scoring, however scoring regularly and often is themost difficult thing in football. It is far easier to sort out a non functioning defense than an impotent attack.

You know that 3 points every 3 matches is 38 points over a season right? I don't want either of those.

I would take two 1-0 wins and a 6-0 defeat over a 6-0 win and two 1-0 defeats though, wouldn't you?

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Jesus H Christ, are we still having the class/intellectual debate?

Under AVB we were timid, toothless, devoid of any flair or creativity going forward, looked dodgy at the back despite employing an unbelievably negative system. He overcomplicated things to the extreme. I'm sorry, if he was such a brilliant manager then he wouldn't have alienated players at Chelsea and got booted out within a few months and then moved on to Spurs and again be sacked early into his reign because of the same failings at Chelsea i.e. slow, ponderous buildup play and freezing players out of the team/squad.

Under Sherwood we actually get more than one player into the box when attacking, are attacking teams with more intent not just waiting until the opposition is tired in the 82nd minuted and 55 seconds when it's the optimal time to break down the opposition's structure and are playing with a sense of freedom that the last manager stifled.

Was Alex Ferguson an intellectual? He knew the game inside out and knew how to tactically outthink his managerial counterparts, but he was also a no nonsense type who also encouraged an attacking style of play. He didn't feel the need to let everyone know how many big words he had in his vocabulary and bore the media to tears with his interviews.

Ferguson is immensely intelligent. In particular, I'd say he's incredibly strong on Game Theory. I don't know if he plays chess, but I wouldn't fancy my chances against him.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

We're defensively weak because our line is too deep and our midfield are too stretched to offer decent protection.

Don't you think that is oversimplifying it. We currently have arguably our two best centre backs and two best centre midfielders unavailable. Time to judge TS is when he has had some time.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

You know that 3 points every 3 matches is 38 points over a season right? I don't want either of those.

I would take two 1-0 wins and a 6-0 defeat over a 6-0 win and two 1-0 defeats though, wouldn't you?

You have missed the point entirely. In both original scenarios, we got three points from three games. So the question was, which way would one prefer to have these three points delivered.

You have put a completely different question. To which, of course, the answer is yes. But in your scenario, the fact that we are capable of conceding 6, does not fill me with confidence that the continuation of 1-0 wins would be sustainable for long.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

You have missed the point entirely. In both original scenarios, we got three points from three games. So the question was, which way would one prefer to have these three points delivered.

You have put a completely different question. To which, of course, the answer is yes. But in your scenario, the fact that we are capable of conceding 6, does not fill me with confidence that the continuation of 1-0 wins would be sustainable for long.

Although the evidence this season shows that we were capable of picking up the required points and also losing the odd game massively.

As much as I hate watching us get dingdonged, it doesn't matter one bit in the end results (barring incredibly unlikely situations where we get/miss CL qualification based on goal difference).

 

[Baleforce]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

yeah, it wasn't my intention to say we should go into every game trying to get 0-0 and 38 points at the end of the season, just that i'd feel more comfortable with a team that kept clean sheets regularly than one which got involved in a shoot out every week

its an old cliche but, defence win championships

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Put me in the other camp. While I would not happy with two defeats, 13 goals for in three games trumps zero every time. Most half decent managers can set up a team to park the bus and stop the opposition scoring, however scoring regularly and often is themost difficult thing in football. It is far easier to sort out a non functioning defense than an impotent attack.

Redknapp says the same thing in his autobiography. He can't understand how these coaches who go out an set up for 0-0 or 1-0 wins are lauded as tactical geniuses (and actually states 'anyone can set up a team to go out and prevent the other team scoring') but those who have their team playing attractive open football are supposedly tactically inadequate.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Ferguson is immensely intelligent. In particular, I'd say he's incredibly strong on Game Theory. I don't know if he plays chess, but I wouldn't fancy my chances against him.

Of course he is but he always managed to get across the points he was trying to make. He knew how to manage people. He also had a simple recipe for success, no player is bigger than the club. AVB tried to change things too quickly at Chelsea, some changes needed to be made, but he had little clout at the time to pull it off. You can be the most intelligent and knowledgeable manager in the world, what good is it if you can't get your point across?

I really don't understand why the sacking of AVB is so difficult to grasp, he simply had a number of appalling results in a relatively short space of time which any manager in world football would struggle to come back from.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Of course he is but he always managed to get across the points he was trying to make. He knew how to manage people. He also had a simple recipe for success, no player is bigger than the club. AVB tried to change things too quickly at Chelsea, some changes needed to be made, but he had little clout at the time to pull it off. You can be the most intelligent and knowledgeable manager in the world, what good is it if you can't get your point across?

I really don't understand why the sacking of AVB is so difficult to grasp, he simply had a number of appalling results in a relatively short space of time which any manager in world football would struggle to come back from.

I agree with most of that. I'm not sure I agree that AVB is incapable of getting his point across, but that's another argument.

So I can add you to the list of those who agree that a manager has to be intelligent?

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

There are different types of intelligence and I haven't seen anything from Sherwood since he took over that confirms that he is less intelligent than his predecessor. If Sherwood is as thick as **** though, surely the person that his detractors should have in their sights is Levy for putting him in charge.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

There are different types of intelligence and I haven't seen anything from Sherwood since he took over that confirms that he is less intelligent than his predecessor. If Sherwood is as thick as **** though, surely the person that his detractors should have in their sights is Levy for putting him in charge.

Levy certainly is in the wrong. Even if Sherwood turns out to be the greatest football manager ever to have been born, the decision (at the time, based on the only evidence available) would be a wrong one. It may turn out to be a wrong decision with the right results, I hope it is, but still a wrong decision.

As for Sherwood. No, he's not dumb but he's certainly the type who reacts and then thinks (if at all), and whenever he talks tactics I get a little scared.

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Levy certainly is in the wrong. Even if Sherwood turns out to be the greatest football manager ever to have been born, the decision (at the time, based on the only evidence available) would be a wrong one. It may turn out to be a wrong decision with the right results, I hope it is, but still a wrong decision.

As for Sherwood. No, he's not dumb but he's certainly the type who reacts and then thinks (if at all), and whenever he talks tactics I get a little scared.

How do you know what evidence Levy had? Why should AVB get the benefit of

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

To finish the last post. Why should AVb get the benefit of the doubt over Levy who had backed him more than any other of his managers? I disagree with Jurgen, I believe that AVB was sacked for a combination of of football and non footballing reasons. It seemed at the end he could pick a fight in an empty room. It would be almost impossible to keep someone like that in charge.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Clarence Seedorf has just been put in charge of AC Milan with no coaching experience whatsoever. He announced his retirement from playing today, 6 months before his contract with Botafogo was due to expire.

Most other top clubs around Europe from time to time appoint inexperienced coaches. Watch them do well for a few months and suddenly Spurs should be all over them, like Simeone at Atletico Madrid.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Levy certainly is in the wrong. Even if Sherwood turns out to be the greatest football manager ever to have been born, the decision (at the time, based on the only evidence available) would be a wrong one. It may turn out to be a wrong decision with the right results, I hope it is, but still a wrong decision.

As for Sherwood. No, he's not dumb but he's certainly the type who reacts and then thinks (if at all), and whenever he talks tactics I get a little scared.

I think this is harsh on Levy in a sense. I think he was massively in the wrong to hire AVB in the first place it he wasn't going to back him and treat him like any old expendable coach, but we have to admit that if he's appointing Sherwood it's because he may have knowledge of his skills and abilities that we don't. For Levy's faults he doesn't strike me as someone that would accept a chancer, and he will have a good idea of who knows their stuff and who doesn't from over a decade in the game at the top level.

I think Sherwood has something to offer, but this half season is no risk for Levy (as annoying as it is that I thought it still could have been a good season under AVB). Either Sherwood wildly out performs everyone's expectations and proves himself as the English Guardiola, ready to set a trend across Europe with a radical style of football and thinking about the game that gets us success...or we bring Van Gaal in.

 

[indianspur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Clarence Seedorf has just been put in charge of AC Milan with no coaching experience whatsoever. He announced his retirement from playing today, 6 months before his contract with Botafogo was due to expire.

Most other top clubs around Europe from time to time appoint inexperienced coaches. Watch them do well for a few months and suddenly Spurs should be all over them, like Simeone at Atletico Madrid.

Milan have history in appointing a head coach/manager with no previous experience....Fabio Capello. Anyway, I thought Gutter said that AVB was to be the next Milan manager

 

[indianspur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think this is harsh on Levy in a sense. I think he was massively in the wrong to hire AVB in the first place it he wasn't going to back him and treat him like any old expendable coach, but we have to admit that if he's appointing Sherwood it's because he may have knowledge of his skills and abilities that we don't. For Levy's faults he doesn't strike me as someone that would accept a chancer, and he will have a good idea of who knows their stuff and who doesn't from over a decade in the game at the top level.

I think Sherwood has something to offer, but this half season is no risk for Levy (as annoying as it is that I thought it still could have been a good season under AVB). Either Sherwood wildly out performs everyone's expectations and proves himself as the English Guardiola, ready to set a trend across Europe with a radical style of football and thinking about the game that gets us success...or we bring Van Gaal in.

oh come on. Maybe Sherwood needs a full season, a whole pre season, some of his own players too, in order to help improve Tottenhams fortunes.

 

[indospurs]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

We aren't big spending sheikh backed loadsamoney club. If we do want to give someone within the club time and support, and they do show success - it's a win win for everyone.

Let's all hope and pray that Sherwood continues his fab start - and that we get more first teamers back soon.