Bedfordspurs
Vinnie Samways
It’s a huge issue
We have spent so much money on players who are broken way way too often
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The transfer thread
- Thread starter Danishfurniturelover
- Start date
We have spent so much money on players who are broken way way too often
Bedfordspurs
Vinnie Samways
Toney would also give us a 2/3 year window to allow the youngsters to develop
FatBloke
Niko Kranjcar
True. Toney has proved that he can score goals in the Premiership and, importantly, seems able to lead the line and rough up defenders. More so than Sonny has ever done. Possibly a mixture of Richarlison's physicality and Sonny's finishing.
My big issue with him is that he seems to be a bit of a twunt. Okay, a lot of a twunt. But then, there's a fine line between being a dingdong and being a confident strong forward. I thought of Richarlison as a dingdong before we signed him, and Madison too. All Ange's dealings so far have pointed to him being an excellent judge of a player's character so, if Toney is his answer, so be it.
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Bedfordspurs
Vinnie Samways
He may be
But then arguably Kane is similar and he ain’t a bad player
greatwhitenorf
Dean Richards
Why not cough up 25 mil for Jonathan David? Having a good run at the Copa America with semi-finalist Canada(!). Scored one great goal and putting himself in good positions for other opportunities. Leading scorer in Ligue Unh! All 'round good guy. Canada uses rapid wide players like Ange employs, so an easy fit for the system. Hole filled, money left for more transfers.
Bedfordspurs
Vinnie Samways
I like him
Reminds me of Defoe
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Always offside and only scores dead rubber goals against weak opponents?
Bishop
Pat van den Hauwe
Just thinking quickly of youngish strikers, off the top of my head head Jonathan David, Victor Boniface, Gustavo Ramos, Vlahovic, Openda and Gyökeres all better than Richie or at the very least have big potential to be superior to him. Richie is is not at the level that it's impossible to find better.
Is replacing him an absolute priority? I don't know I do know that I don't feel a forward line of aged Son, Richie and Johnson is high calibre. It's pretty basic and lacks in ability to beat a man and keeping the ball in tight situations. If we want to help the defence concede less we do need better care and possession of it in the final third and these players are not that.
Kandi1977
George Hunt
I don't know the others that well, but I've watched Boniface for at least 30-40 games, and about half of those in person at the stadium. In no way is he better than Richarlison! Claiming that is just absolutely ridiculous! There might be very specific things he can do better, but overall, he's miles off! He's not even been a regular starter for Leverkusen.
Bedfordspurs
Vinnie Samways
I’d love a striker who stays in the box and scores
ricky2tricky4city
Tom Huddlestone
Franny Jeffers?
Bishop
Pat van den Hauwe
I've watched a fair bit of him also and we'll have to agree to disagree. He's far more skillful, he can dribble and beat a man and he's a lot better with the ball at his feet than Richy, he's also strong which is one of Richys best attributes, his finishing isn't amazing but he's young and that can improve that with time potentially. Given the choice between them I do think Boniface would be better suited to the way we play and would add more imo.
Bedfordspurs
Vinnie Samways
Lineker
I don't think that's what Ange's system asks for though?
The wide players are meant to go past their man and get a cross in (Johnson and Son do). The striker requirement is a poacher, so if you want an upgrade on Richi, what you are looking for is a clinical finisher, the added ask is we press from the front, so the potential striker needs to do that as well.
I'm not saying you can't upgrade Richi (my issue with him is more fitness/availability), it's just not as simple as better, it's do they fit the system?
Bedfordspurs
Vinnie Samways
It’s why it was so frustrating seeing son drift to the half way line and seeing Werner and Johnson going their role wide with no target man
The CF has to be available and if it scoring at least occupy the centre backs with movement or physicality
Richy did that really well when fit as CF getting a goal a game
Bishop
Pat van den Hauwe
Every system is better with a skillful striker that can work himself some space and get shots off. Every system is better with a striker who is capable of holding the ball if under pressure, these are two areas Richy is relatively weak at.
I probably think the wide areas are more problematic than the striker tbh because as you say if you want wide players who beat their man and get get balls in we don't have that. Johnson can not beat his man, he can only do so if the ball is played into space for him to run on to, he is completely unable to dribble. Son is also not much of a dribbler.
For me I very much do not think out forward line is good but i am aware I am in a minority in that view but it's so glaringly obvious. I don't really mind where we upgrade in terms of forwards just that we do, hopefully.
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braineclipse
Willie Hall
I think the majority view is that the priority would be the front line along possibly with a 6 if we're looking to strengthening the starting 11. There's understandably basically no one calling for upgrades on other starters.
I do think our front line is good, but it needs to be great and it isn't. Many ways of going about that. Right now in the market I think wide players that improve us look more doable, in part for the reasons you state. We don't have a lot of great profile fits there. Though I think Johnson improved and has the potential to continue to do so.
On the striker position I think competition for Richalison is more likely/doable than a clear upgrade. And that would also be super useful. We really missed Richarlison when he wasn't fit last season.
braineclipse
Willie Hall
Absolutely. Or if that fails perhaps the striker market will look different in a couple of years. Home grown too.
Right now at least the links that are there are not for us spending massive money on a striker and I think that's understandable if that's the approach we go for.
I don't think our forward line is elite (we lost that player), from a purely data view, 74 goals scored in 38 games with a new system and a lot of injuries isn't terrible, the measurement stick is high 80's to low 90 goals.
Son has always been a player to play the ball in front of, in the direction he's running in, at that he's elite (as is his finishing), Johnson has promise but to your points similar to Son in the type of ball he thrives on. That also begs the question of would all of the options be better if the midfield got the right balls to them more often?
My opinion is, maybe similar to @braineclipse the players are either almost or don't fit quite together, e.g.
- Richi is a decent poacher who can press from the front but is hardly likely to play the majority of games due to injuries
- Son is an elite player that is aging, where does he fit now?
- Johnson & Werner both fit the system but in the end just don't quite deliver (Johnson may in the long run), and if you play both you get a lot of pace in side but where does Son fit then?
- Kulu? workhorse, but has had some bad games, yet even in those bad games can often create chances.
Now to be fair, I don't think Manu, Chelsea or the Scum have elite level front lines, the latter particularly makes it up with the system.
I'd say a wing upgrade (dribbler) or CF with pace and ability to shoot from distance would make a significant upgrade ..
ahh well, that was a bit of a ramble ..
Son sadly is not an elite player anymore. The calibre of clubs that would be in for Son if he was available now, vs those that would have been interested a couple of years ago would definitely be different. More importantly, like you say Johnson and Werner fit the system whereas Son doesnt. He doesn't beat his man, he is not a crosser of the ball and has lost that burst of pace he had - at the start of the season he played LW and was ineffective, hence he was moved to CF and thats when he started scoring. Problem is, he is not really the CF solution either.
I like Richi, but certainly could do with some competition up top considering his injury issues and I think this will be done with us acquring another flexible forward who can play anywhere across the front line and looking to give more minutes to one of our young CFs, most likely Veliz....