The transfer thread

[Bishop]

It’s a great return
And he was still playing with an injury I’m sure
As long as he ain’t asked to play CF we will see a great Sonny

I don't know if you don't recall but Son's good goal return was from the centre when he was playing CF not wide. His return on the wings was poor as were his performances. Can he get it back to his previous level? I don't know but I'm very doubtful as this decline has been happening organically and gradually.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I don't know if you don't recall but Son's good goal return was from the centre when he was playing CF not wide. His return on the wings was poor as were his performances. Can he get it back to his previous level? I don't know but I'm very doubtful as this decline has been happening organically and gradually.

I do remember
And his return at CF stopped as soon as teams low blocked us
We had this conversation loads last season
Son is not and has never been a CF
He is a counter attacker or a player that needs space and room to do his work
He gave CBs an easy time when they low blocked because he ended up coming short for the ball and frequently losing it
Was grim

 

[Bishop]

I do remember
And his return at CF stopped as soon as teams low blocked us
We had this conversation loads last season
Son is not and has never been a CF
He is a counter attacker or a player that needs space and room to do his work
He gave CBs an easy time when they low blocked because he ended up coming short for the ball and frequently losing it
Was grim

I'm just pointing out that whilst you don't like him upfront, the wings probably aren't the solution either given his very evident drop off in playing ability there.

It might be a question of where do we want to play him and where do we get the most from him? On the wings he's not the Son of 2014-2022 anymore.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I'm just pointing out that whilst you don't like him upfront, the wings probably aren't the solution either given his very evident drop off in playing ability there.

It might be a question of where do we want to play him and where do we get the most from him? On the wings he's not the Son of 2014-2022 anymore.

Maybe
But on the wings with a CF he might be better
I know I keep on repeating it
And the stats highlight it
We have to play with a CF who stays in that role
The potential for son to then play with and off the man is improved
Richy was getting a goal a game playing that role and he ain’t the answer

 

[Lemonade Money]

Maybe
But on the wings with a CF he might be better
I know I keep on repeating it
And the stats highlight it
We have to play with a CF who stays in that role
The potential for son to then play with and off the man is improved
Richy was getting a goal a game playing that role and he ain’t the answer

You keep repeating this, but where is it? The only stats I've seen are his assists and goals, and that is definitely better starting as CF. I'm not sure he's the solution in either position though, but he is our captain.

 

[monkeybarry]

No, it will go on forever, if we sign a striker 50% will say it's the wrong choice and 5-106 alternatives will be suggested.

There is a simple solution.....sign Damaio!!!
Get all this bs over and done with.
Levy out.
Yellow and blue forever.

 

[Dicko]

Playing CF was where the majority of that great return came from.

It's also where our attacks went to die, Every time. I know there's no right or wrong answer but I hated having Son upfront, He has zero hold up ability, no physical presence and zero aerial threat. He does have that skill of being able to score out of nowhere wherever he is up front or cutting inside from the wing.

Now if we improve as a team overall, and create more chances then he could still have a decent role at either LWF or CF. Either way it would be nice to find out he was injured after the Asian Cup and he's now fit and raring to go again.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

You keep repeating this, but where is it? The only stats I've seen are his assists and goals, and that is definitely better starting as CF. I'm not sure he's the solution in either position though, but he is our captain.

The stats are on the Werner thread because that’s where the discussion was
Every time we played a low block he didn’t score
It’s that simple…

Actually that’s a lie…
He scored the last goal

 

[Bedfordspurs]

You keep repeating this, but where is it? The only stats I've seen are his assists and goals, and that is definitely better starting as CF. I'm not sure he's the solution in either position though, but he is our captain.

Ultimately I think we agree on things but these are the games Son has started as ST and scored in this season. There are a few low-block teams in there. https://thfcdb.com/people/heung-min-son?tab=matches&filterSeasons[0]=883914&startingStatus=startingXi&matchEvents=goal&position=st&selectedView=list

View attachment 17001


The 10 matches he started up front but didn't score in:

View attachment 17002

 

[Gutter Boy]

I do remember
And his return at CF stopped as soon as teams low blocked us
We had this conversation loads last season
Son is not and has never been a CF
He is a counter attacker or a player that needs space and room to do his work
He gave CBs an easy time when they low blocked because he ended up coming short for the ball and frequently losing it
Was grim

We played against low-block teams 30/38 games a season between 2015-19, when Son was at his absolute peak. Only under Mourinho and Conte did teams stop fearing us and not bother defending so much. So Son does have form of working effectively against deep set defences.

But during his best spell he was paired with Kane, Eriksen and Alli. The former two of whom are fairly indirect. The blend of direct and indirect worked well for him. Last season he was most useless playing in a complete direct frontline with Werner and Johnson. With Maddison back on form and Kulu or different partner on the right, thing might look better.

 

[Lemonade Money]

What does that even show?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We played against low-block teams 30/38 games a season between 2015-19, when Son was at his absolute peak. Only under Mourinho and Conte did teams stop fearing us and not bother defending so much. So Son does have form of working effectively against deep set defences.

But during his best spell he was paired with Kane, Eriksen and Alli. The former two of whom are fairly indirect. The blend of direct and indirect worked well for him. Last season he was most useless playing in a complete direct frontline with Werner and Johnson. With Maddison back on form and Kulu or different partner on the right, thing might look better.

No
Sons best form came as a wide player off Kane when we played our own low block …
That’s the reality
He had space and room to run into because we played counter attacking

 

[Lemonade Money]

12 goals from 19 appearances as a ST
3 goals from 11 appearances as a LW

I think we'd be better as a team with him LW and Richarlison central but his numbers are pretty good when he's up front.

For the first 3 league games of this season, he started left and contributed nothing. For the next 7 league games, he started up top and scored 8 and assisted 1. Then came Chelsea, and the season unravelled. He has proved he can prosper in this system, and it isn't on the left. I would like to hope it is more down to stage 2 of @fernadez 's post below, like a lot of other players.

And @SteveAWOL 's post:

I'm not sure how much we can take from the rest of the season as everyone turned to brick.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

What does that even show?

The stats above
It shows that son as CF worked when we played teams that attacked like Arsenal and Burnley
Son as a CF didnt work when we played teams that didn’t… which was most sides
It’s that simple really. Son is not a CBs nightmare. He is as easy as they get as a CF. Son as a wide player was a threat because he can score and assist

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I'm not sure how much we can take from the rest of the season as everyone turned to brick.

The season unraveled when teams started defending against us
Well worth looking at the fixtures and teams we played. And of course how they played
We got done on the counter and of course on set pieces
If… If we had a CF who occupied the CBs they would have had less opportunities to play out their counter
Well worth looking at last seasons games and the amount of times Sonny at CF lost the ball running into opposition or passing poorly in a tight space, normally on the edge of their area. And then the oppo launched a counter which unstable lead to a shot on target or a goal. Maddison and Destiny were the other two main culprits as the season unfolded

When did we concede a worldie… rarely if at all

 

[Lemonade Money]

The stats above
It shows that son as CF worked when we played teams that attacked like Arsenal and Burnley
Son as a CF didnt work when we played teams that didn’t… which was most sides
It’s that simple really. Son is not a CBs nightmare. He is as easy as they get as a CF. Son as a wide player was a threat because he can score and assist

In the period I'm talking about he scored against Palace and Fulham. We were also unbeaten and playing as a cohesive unit. This is just your interpretation rather than actual stats that prove anything.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

In the period I'm talking about he scored against Palace and Fulham. We were also unbeaten and playing as a cohesive unit. This is just your interpretation rather than actual stats that prove anything.

Fulham didn’t play a low block that game, and we played well TBF. That goal was a counter wasnt it from Calvin Bassey fudging up
When we okayed them away and he was CF… well it was horrendous and we got spanked
IIRC palace didn’t really play any system. They were a mess
The stats … which clearly you dint agree with… show that when we played a defensive side son was ineffective
Teams quickly adapted to Ange ball and the lack of a presence in that role really hurt us
Son wide was effective because has that shooting ability which is exceptional
You have to look at the whole season to see the issue

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Hot off the press Son joined 9 years ago

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Hot off the press Son joined 9 years ago

Yep
But as a wide forward
Not a CF
Son was never a CF until we shoe horned him in
He doesn’t even play there for South Korea where everyone is fit

 

[Bishop]

Fulham didn’t play a low block that game, and we played well TBF. That goal was a counter wasnt it from Calvin Bassey fudging up
When we okayed them away and he was CF… well it was horrendous and we got spanked
IIRC palace didn’t really play any system. They were a mess
The stats … which clearly you dint agree with… show that when we played a defensive side son was ineffective
Teams quickly adapted to Ange ball and the lack of a presence in that role really hurt us
Son wide was effective because has that shooting ability which is exceptional
You have to look at the whole season to see the issue

You keep saying ason was effective on the left but he bloody wasn't last season. He was terrible there, far worse than through the middle. Do you accept that or do you live in fantasy world where Son was good outside last season?