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The new, new manager thread - Pt 3

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001–02_Valencia_CF_season
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001–02_Real_Madrid_C.F._season
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001–02_FC_Barcelona_season


Look at Real's squad: definitely much, much better. Look at Barcelona's spending and tell me you don't see parallels with Chelsea/City/United. Admittedly Atletico were dog**** (apparently they weren't even in the league back then), but Deportivo were coming off their 1999-2000 title win and were no pushovers. Valencia were fighting an uphill battle (they had finished fifth in 2000), and to do what Benitez did was admirable even back then when they were relatively stronger than they are now.


from that first article :

The Tenerife recruit had a tough start to his job, with several dropped points and a midfield slot in the beginning of the season, culminating in a disqualification from Copa del Rey for fielding too many non-EU players. Benítez was reported to be near the sack before an away game against Espanyol. With Valencia trailing 2-0 at halftime, the resurgence of the team in the second half allowed the inexperienced coach to keep the job, and it got to be a starting point for a winning streak that eventually saw Valencia claiming the entire league, despite taking only 75 points and scoring a mere 51 goals.

doesn't quite speak volumes for the level of competition that year does it?


anyway Im genuinely open to all 3 candidates, they all have their pluses and their minuses and i can see why posters would prefer one to the other two. what i can't comprehend is those that choose to claim one as the only viable option and then dismiss any opinion that doesn't agree with theirs.
 
People are just bored because of no football and frustrated because of no news. They will rally round whoever gets the job (assuming it isn't Moyes).

I think the arguments between Poch, FdB and Benitez are all relative. I'm not sure anyone would mind any of them that much. None will be Sherwood or Redknapp level divisive from the start appointments anyway.

Pretty much. I don't like Pochettino's lack of experience and middling league record, but I can admit he plays good football and is probably a good team-builder. I don't like De Boer's European record, but I like his trophy record and the fact that Eriksen and Verts will likely be enthused if he does come. I dislike Rafa's rotation policies, but absolutely love his trophy record, tactical ability and motivational skills. So there's pluses and minuses to all of them to an extent, and even if someone other than Rafa is appointed, I don't doubt that I'll probably console myself with the positives of the coach we do select as opposed to the negatives. This club needs that attitude now, whoever we appoint.
 
Like I said earlier you have your opinion I have mine I happen to like the Dutch system and think its fantastic football to watch and would like to see it implemented over here lvg went out with the bath water so that left me with what I personally regard as the next best thing.
you like what you like I am different you think he is **** I do not ,you think poch is the next big thing and the difference here with me though is that if he does get appointed I really hope he is because at the end of the day I just want to see spurs do well

I have nothing to prove its my gut feeling and I trust it so like I said if poch gets the job I hope he is ****ing amazing and takes spurs to another level and I will bow down to your superior knowledge and foresight with true happiness :)
 
from that first article :



doesn't quite speak volumes for the level of competition that year does it?

Eh. He still had to get them to a trophy and to overachieve with that squad. We lack the nous and know-how to win trophies, and need overachievement, whatever its scope and scale. Valencia were far from title favourites in 2001-2002: they won it that year. By contrast, we seem to muck-up trophy winning even when we're favorites to do so. That needs to change.
 
Eh. He still had to get them to a trophy and to overachieve with that squad. We lack the nous and know-how to win trophies, and need overachievement, whatever its scope and scale. Valencia were far from title favourites in 2001-2002: they won it that year. By contrast, we seem to muck-up trophy winning even when we're favorites to do so. That needs to change.

That's a fact that all should be able to agree on at least

I'm not sure we have had that winners attitude since the 60s to be honest :(
 
Eh. He still had to get them to a trophy and to overachieve with that squad. We lack the nous and know-how to win trophies, and need overachievement, whatever its scope and scale. Valencia were far from title favourites in 2001-2002: they won it that year. By contrast, we seem to muck-up trophy winning even when we're favorites to do so. That needs to change.

that is true Dubai, he still had to get them over the line which counts for something, i amended the post you quoted btw - im not particularly opposed to Benitez, i just don't think his suitability for our job is a strong as others believe - Im not sure how his success elsewhere translates to what he will be up against here.
 
just as A add on to Ajax champions league failings I found this

In considering the reasons why Ajax have failed to make the last sixteen of the competition under De Boer,one has to consider the difficulty and complexity of the task at hand for each of the three campaigns. In the 2011-2012 campaign,Ajax were drawn against a rampant Real Madrid, who won all their six group games, with a record of nineteen for, two against. Indeed, the only reason Ajax failed to progress at the first attempt under De Boer was because of a bizarre occurrence during the game between Ajax’s closest contenders Lyon, and minnows Dinamo Zagreb,whereby the French side duly got the seven (!) goals they needed to progress,not surprisingly the match was under investigation by UEFA for match-fixing but was quickly dropped. So,in that sense Ajax were seriously unlucky to make progress, even in De Boer’s first European campaign at the helm. A total of six goals in six group games didn’t exactly help either.
Ajax then had the misfortune of being drawn in the ‘group of death’ the following season, the 2012-2013 campaign, paired yet again with Real Madrid, eventual finalists Borussia Dortmund, and Premier League champions Emirates Marketing Project. Ajax picked up just four points, but the fact that they managed to scrape third place, above the mighty Emirates Marketing Project, was testament to the progress they were making.

Another tough draw awaited this year, in a group full of former winners, with Barcelona, AC Milan, and Celtic the opposition. Ajax started poorly with a four-nil reverse at the Camp Nou, but in their second game only a contentious penalty converted by Mario Balotelli in the 94th minute stopped Ajax from taking all three points. A poor defeat in Glasgow, and then a narrow victory over the same opponents in Amsterdam, was followed by arguably the greatest result of De Boer’s continental reign thus far, a two-one victory over Barcelona at the Arena, a result which De Boer’s men fully merited. Ajax then went into their final game knowing that bettering their draw against AC Milan earlier on in the group would see them through but unfortunately they just couldn’t find the breakthrough needed and the game finished goal-less, meaning they just missed out on progression again, this time by a solitary point.

For this reason alone, it is not surprising that Ajax have failed to progress to the last sixteen under De Boer’s guidance, being grouped in the third pot of seeding’s hasn’t been kind to Ajax so far, and given their failure to once again progress in this year’s competition, a similar seeding looks likely next year, obviously provided they qualify for the competition, as expected.

Another reason that could potentially be levied towards Ajax’s failure to progress in Europe would be the relative inexperience of not only their playing squad, but De Boer himself. Ajax have a very young squad, most of whom had very little to no experience of playing in the Champions league, hence the lengthy adaptation process, with the first couple of campaigns under De Boer perhaps treated as valuable learning experiences for most of the players. However, this argument certainly has less weight to it with each passing European campaign as most of the current squad now have at least two years’ experience of playing at the top level and as such will be expected to make progress sooner rather than later. As for De Boer, it could also be argued that the first couple of European Champions League campaigns represented a learning curve for the manager, having to get used to the extra demands placed not only on his players, but himself and his staff too. It could now also be argued that De Boer is suitably experienced himself in leading Ajax in European football’s top competition, and should he stay at the club a while longer, then it is logical to suggest that he will expect his side to progress to the next level as soon as possible.

Another possible argument is that Ajax lack a proven goal-scorer at continental level. This is best exemplified by the fact that the highest number of goals scored in a group stage campaign under De Boer’s management is eight, occurring both in 2012-2013, and 2013-2014. Ajax’s main striker, Kolbeinn Sigthorsson, is not a prolific scorer at this level and is often seen as too physically fragile to cope with the demands of balancing European and domestic commitments. This places extra emphasis on the goals coming from elsewhere, placing more responsibility on the likes of Viktor Fischer, Lasse Schone and Captain Siem De Jong. Whether Ajax will seek to sign a new striker in the future remains to be seen, with the emphasis clearly on youth development at the club it seems unlikely, but still plausible.

If this is the case, then the problem may persist in the future, with Ajax perhaps hoping that Sigthorsson can step up to the plate and show the form he shows domestically, when he is fit.

In conclusion a combination of extremely tough luck, relative lack of experience of both playing squad and management, and lack of a proven goal-scorer have all contributed to Ajax’s failure to make progress in the Champions League under De Boer. However, there is hope if Ajax gets a reasonable draw, with the squad having more experience and even the possibility, albeit slim of a new proven striker then there is no reason to suggest that Ajax won’t take that next step in continental football, and finally make the last sixteen of the competition in the near future.

Not quite as cut and dry as being made out but I accept football is a results business and ajax did not get the required results
 
Well, looks like my hope that firing Sherwood would lead to a more unifying coach was an absolute pipe dream.

This place will be an absolute bloodbath and replete with 'I told you sos' when the new manager inevitably hits a rough patch/ is fired from those who supported one of the other 2.

Unfortunately, I think that you are right.
 
On 27 April 2014, De Boer won his fourth successive Eredivisie title with Ajax, the first manager ever to achieve this in the Dutch league. Moreover, it is the first time Ajax has ever won four successive titles

quite an achievement im sure you'll all agree ;)

does that qualify for punching above their weight? i mean there have been some pretty fine Ajax sides over the years but this is the first to win 4 titles on the spin :-k
 
That despite multiple opportunities, he hasn't once been able to progress past a field of equal/superior teams, you'd think that for such a highly rated coach he'd have claimed a scalp or two in that time. I guess it's not so easy when you're not pushing around a bunch of minnows eh Frank.

I blame Eriksen tbh.......
 
quite an achievement im sure you'll all agree ;)

does that qualify for punching above their weight? i mean there have been some pretty fine Ajax sides over the years but this is the first to win 4 titles on the spin :-k

I think Ajax suffer from the same expectations as United, Madrid, Milan, you should win the league every year, anything else is failure
 
I think Ajax suffer from the same expectations as United, Madrid, Milan, you should win the league every year, anything else is failure

well they hadn't for 7 years beforehand so that's a lot of failure and last season Psv and Feyenoord both had stronger squads
 
Hmm, its all gone a bit quiet. Why is it taking so long to sort out this new manager? We've been looking ever since AVB left as we spoke to LVG back then, surely we must have known our plan b.
 
well they hadn't for 7 years beforehand so that's a lot of failure and last season Psv and Feyenoord both had stronger squads

quite, but the expectation is that with their academy and their history they should always have the strongest squad
 
Don't want FDB if i'm honest as his Ajax team have a knack of conceding goals. I want a stronger Spurs from now on.
 
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