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The new, new manager thread - Pt 3

That is written by Tom Collomose. A decent journo who is well connected at Spurs. Obviously it isn't gospel but I would definitely pay attention to it. I am happy to sit tight till next week and wait and see.
 
Slightbreeze said:
Hmm, its all gone a bit quiet. Why is it taking so long to sort out this new manager? We've been looking ever since AVB left as we spoke to LVG back then, surely we must have known our plan b.
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FdB has always been a candidate and seemingly was always going to get interviewed. he had prior commitments with Ajax so has only recently been available for an official interview - with apparently this has taken place if ITK is to be believed - so one would assume it's now a case of the board weighing up their options and making the most informed decision possible.

I don't really think it's going slower than expected, all things considered.
 
Grassroots said:
just as A add on to Ajax champions league failings I found this

In considering the reasons why Ajax have failed to make the last sixteen of the competition under De Boer,one has to consider the difficulty and complexity of the task at hand for each of the three campaigns. In the 2011-2012 campaign,Ajax were drawn against a rampant Real Madrid, who won all their six group games, with a record of nineteen for, two against. Indeed, the only reason Ajax failed to progress at the first attempt under De Boer was because of a bizarre occurrence during the game between Ajax’s closest contenders Lyon, and minnows Dinamo Zagreb,whereby the French side duly got the seven (!) goals they needed to progress,not surprisingly the match was under investigation by UEFA for match-fixing but was quickly dropped. So,in that sense Ajax were seriously unlucky to make progress, even in De Boer’s first European campaign at the helm. A total of six goals in six group games didn’t exactly help either.
Ajax then had the misfortune of being drawn in the ‘group of death’ the following season, the 2012-2013 campaign, paired yet again with Real Madrid, eventual finalists Borussia Dortmund, and Premier League champions Emirates Marketing Project. Ajax picked up just four points, but the fact that they managed to scrape third place, above the mighty Emirates Marketing Project, was testament to the progress they were making.

Another tough draw awaited this year, in a group full of former winners, with Barcelona, AC Milan, and Celtic the opposition. Ajax started poorly with a four-nil reverse at the Camp Nou, but in their second game only a contentious penalty converted by Mario Balotelli in the 94th minute stopped Ajax from taking all three points. A poor defeat in Glasgow, and then a narrow victory over the same opponents in Amsterdam, was followed by arguably the greatest result of De Boer’s continental reign thus far, a two-one victory over Barcelona at the Arena, a result which De Boer’s men fully merited. Ajax then went into their final game knowing that bettering their draw against AC Milan earlier on in the group would see them through but unfortunately they just couldn’t find the breakthrough needed and the game finished goal-less, meaning they just missed out on progression again, this time by a solitary point.

For this reason alone, it is not surprising that Ajax have failed to progress to the last sixteen under De Boer’s guidance, being grouped in the third pot of seeding’s hasn’t been kind to Ajax so far, and given their failure to once again progress in this year’s competition, a similar seeding looks likely next year, obviously provided they qualify for the competition, as expected.

Another reason that could potentially be levied towards Ajax’s failure to progress in Europe would be the relative inexperience of not only their playing squad, but De Boer himself. Ajax have a very young squad, most of whom had very little to no experience of playing in the Champions league, hence the lengthy adaptation process, with the first couple of campaigns under De Boer perhaps treated as valuable learning experiences for most of the players. However, this argument certainly has less weight to it with each passing European campaign as most of the current squad now have at least two years’ experience of playing at the top level and as such will be expected to make progress sooner rather than later. As for De Boer, it could also be argued that the first couple of European Champions League campaigns represented a learning curve for the manager, having to get used to the extra demands placed not only on his players, but himself and his staff too. It could now also be argued that De Boer is suitably experienced himself in leading Ajax in European football’s top competition, and should he stay at the club a while longer, then it is logical to suggest that he will expect his side to progress to the next level as soon as possible.

Another possible argument is that Ajax lack a proven goal-scorer at continental level. This is best exemplified by the fact that the highest number of goals scored in a group stage campaign under De Boer’s management is eight, occurring both in 2012-2013, and 2013-2014. Ajax’s main striker, Kolbeinn Sigthorsson, is not a prolific scorer at this level and is often seen as too physically fragile to cope with the demands of balancing European and domestic commitments. This places extra emphasis on the goals coming from elsewhere, placing more responsibility on the likes of Viktor Fischer, Lasse Schone and Captain Siem De Jong. Whether Ajax will seek to sign a new striker in the future remains to be seen, with the emphasis clearly on youth development at the club it seems unlikely, but still plausible.

If this is the case, then the problem may persist in the future, with Ajax perhaps hoping that Sigthorsson can step up to the plate and show the form he shows domestically, when he is fit.

In conclusion a combination of extremely tough luck, relative lack of experience of both playing squad and management, and lack of a proven goal-scorer have all contributed to Ajax’s failure to make progress in the Champions League under De Boer. However, there is hope if Ajax gets a reasonable draw, with the squad having more experience and even the possibility, albeit slim of a new proven striker then there is no reason to suggest that Ajax won’t take that next step in continental football, and finally make the last sixteen of the competition in the near future.

Not quite as cut and dry as being made out but I accept football is a results business and ajax did not get the required results
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another good example why not to take things at face value.
 
The latest scores.

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and a chance to vote for anyone who hasn't already

<iframe src="https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1RWvmhECbaTTQ7KoAfdstsMvy_9j8NaJ99iWkg-3oFBE/viewform?embedded=true" width="760" height="500" frameborder="0" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0">Loading...</iframe>
 
billyiddo said:
FdB has always been a candidate and seemingly was always going to get interviewed. he had prior commitments with Ajax so has only recently been available for an official interview - with apparently this has taken place if ITK is to be believed - so one would assume it's now a case of the board weighing up their options and making the most informed decision possible.

I don't really think it's going slower than expected, all things considered.
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It makes me laugh that Levy is accused of always getting it wrong with regards to appointments, but then there are fans that are demanding we rush into appointing a new manager not even 2 weeks after the season finished and our old manager was fired.
 
Kingdawson said:
What are the pros of Frank De Boer?
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He'd be my second choice (by a whisker). The positives I see are:

Massive name as a player. That will help attract some players and should command respect from our squad
Worked well with Verts and Eriksen before
A good record in the Netherlands
Plays good football
A track record of promoting and improving youth players
Schooled in the Ajax way - a model that we would do well to mirror, particularly until our new stadium is paid for
Our current squad looks like a good fit for him, so we should see minimal changes
 
Kingdawson said:
What are the pros of Frank De Boer?
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Pros:

1) Plays a fluid, attractive 4-3-3/4-5-1 most of the time, high line/hard pressing.
2) Bloods youth players very well (although that may be more to do with Ajax than with him).
3) Has a very long history of winning things, both as a player and a manager.
4) Might convince Verts to give us another go, and will definitely enthuse Eriksen at the very least.
5) Is unlikely to ask for a lot by way of transfer funds if we do land him: probably will initially want a dependable player like Daley Blind in, but is unlikely to demand Chelsea-like spending.

Cons:

1) No experience in England (compared to Poch and Benitez).
2) Ajax's patchy European record.
3) Ajax's defensive fragility in recent years (despite a great attack, they seem quite shaky defensively).
4) Lack of any exposure outside the incubator-like conditions of Ajax- yes he turned them around after seven Eredivisie-less years, but is that down to him or to Ajax' youth talent?
 
DubaiSpur said:
Pros:

1) Plays a fluid, attractive 4-3-3/4-5-1 most of the time, high line/hard pressing.
2) Bloods youth players very well (although that may be more to do with Ajax than with him).
3) Has a very long history of winning things, both as a player and a manager.
4) Might convince Verts to give us another go, and will definitely enthuse Eriksen at the very least.
5) Is unlikely to ask for a lot by way of transfer funds if we do land him: probably will initially want a dependable player like Daley Blind in, but is unlikely to demand Chelsea-like spending.

Cons:

1) No experience in England (compared to Poch and Benitez).
2) Ajax's patchy European record.
3) Ajax's defensive fragility in recent years (despite a great attack, they seem quite shaky defensively).
4) Lack of any exposure outside the incubator-like conditions of Ajax- yes he turned them around after seven Eredivisie-less years, but is that down to him or to Ajax' youth talent?
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I agree with those cons
 
i think Grassroots post earlier can dispel the patchy European record point tbf - 3rd seeds every year and twice drawn in the group of death. certainly not exceeding expectations but neither falling below them.

maybe we should have had a pro/con thread for each of the candidates rather than the absurd carry on we've had in these threads where everyone just tries to shout the loudest :lol:
 
When I have got the time, I will produce some graphs for the second choice break down based on people's first choice. It is interesting.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Pros:

1) Plays a fluid, attractive 4-3-3/4-5-1 most of the time, high line/hard pressing.
2) Bloods youth players very well (although that may be more to do with Ajax than with him).
3) Has a very long history of winning things, both as a player and a manager.
4) Might convince Verts to give us another go, and will definitely enthuse Eriksen at the very least.
5) Is unlikely to ask for a lot by way of transfer funds if we do land him: probably will initially want a dependable player like Daley Blind in, but is unlikely to demand Chelsea-like spending.

Cons:

1) No experience in England (compared to Poch and Benitez).
2) Ajax's patchy European record.
3) Ajax's defensive fragility in recent years (despite a great attack, they seem quite shaky defensively).
4) Lack of any exposure outside the incubator-like conditions of Ajax- yes he turned them around after seven Eredivisie-less years, but is that down to him or to Ajax' youth talent?
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1) cant argue that fact at all but still maintain its only semi valid as manager's don't need to adjust like players
2)posted a fair article on that above proving it really isn't as bad as being portrayed
3)that could just be down to personnel but the whole system is about taking risks to score goals I thought
4) It could be argued that he coached a lot of them as youth players also they was still the Ajax youth system for the 7 years before he took over it didn't seem to help jol and co
 
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i think both Pocchetino and DeBoer's supposed good record with regards to blooding in the youth players in their respective jobs will no doubt give them the edge, in Levys mind at least.

i can certainly see the positives in going down that route, from the Clubs perspective at least. we have worked hard to make the Development squad as good as it can be over the years, i think we do need to have a man in charge at the top who is willing (and able) to bring through youth players.
 
billyiddo said:
i think Grassroots post earlier can dispel the patchy European record point tbf - 3rd seeds every year and twice drawn in the group of death. certainly not exceeding expectations but neither falling below them.

maybe we should have had a pro/con thread for each of the candidates rather than the absurd carry on we've had in these threads where everyone just tries to shout the loudest :lol:
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You're like one those "there's no losers, everyone's a winner" type mums.
 
I'd be happy with any of the three, will look forward to next season, whoever it is will have my full support and I'm just totally relieved its not Tim.
 
Grassroots said:
1) cant argue that fact at all but still maintain its only semi valid as manager's don't need to adjust like players
2)posted a fair article on that above proving it really isn't as bad as being portrayed
3)that could just be down to personnel but the whole system is about taking risks to score goals I thought
4) It could be argued that he coached a lot of them as youth players also they was still the Ajax youth system for the 7 years before he took over it didn't seem to help jol and co
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1) Perhaps on the continent that may be the case, but England does have a football culture that is very unforgiving to foreign managers, imo. The media will be hostile to anyone not English and not ready to give them a ready quip every game, the demands for instant success are much louder here in England than on the continent (barring insanity-inducing managerial climates like Italy), and the adversarial nature of the English game is unique as far as I can tell, with cooperation between and across clubs much less intensive than in places like Italy and the Netherlands. It is as unforgiving as it gets, and thus a manager who's come through all of that with a decent CV (Rafa, Poch) is a better choice on those standards, imo.

2) I read it. Fine, Ajax were unlucky in the CL. The article does however heavily gloss over their EL record: for such a talented side, they really should have gotten farther than they did, perhaps even won the thing outright at some point in the last few years. Okay, in the first two years of FdB's term they were European novices and had to restore their league record, so the EL must have seemed unappealing or unimportant to them. The last two, however? When they were experienced in Europe and could focus more on European competitions? No excuses there, imo, they did poorly. Worse sides than Ajax have gotten to the semi-finals of the Europa League.

3) After 2013-2014, I'm surprised anyone would still condone horrific defending and individual errors if it meant scoring goals at the other end. We should be looking for a manager who can both craft a steely defence and score a few goals: if De Boer can only achieve the latter by sacrificing the former, then he's clearly not very good, is he?.

4) Fair point, although again, his coaching of them does not indicate his readiness to handle both harsh conditions and high-maintenance players in bigger leagues like ours.
 
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