The new, new manager thread - Pt 3

[billyiddo]

3) After 2013-2014, I'm surprised anyone would still condone horrific defending and individual errors if it meant scoring goals at the other end. We should be looking for a manager who can both craft a steely defence and score a few goals: if De Boer can only achieve the latter by sacrificing the former, then he's clearly not very good, is he?.


would you turn down Rodgers this summer?

 

[Papercut]

I opted for Rafa purely because of experience and success; however I think we are wasting our time considering him as it appears to be a true two horse race, and to be honest - I'm open to both

 

[milo]

1) cant argue that fact at all but still maintain its only semi valid as manager's don't need to adjust like players
2)posted a fair article on that above proving it really isn't as bad as being portrayed
3)that could just be down to personnel but the whole system is about taking risks to score goals I thought
4) It could be argued that he coached a lot of them as youth players also they was still the Ajax youth system for the 7 years before he took over it didn't seem to help jol and co

I'm not sure that I agree with the bolded bit. What makes you think that is the case?

 

[DubaiSpur]

3) After 2013-2014, I'm surprised anyone would still condone horrific defending and individual errors if it meant scoring goals at the other end. We should be looking for a manager who can both craft a steely defence and score a few goals: if De Boer can only achieve the latter by sacrificing the former, then he's clearly not very good, is he?.


would you turn down Rodgers this summer?

Cheeky. I already did turn down the chance to keep Sherwood, who is the living embodiment of the 'defence be damned, score whatever the cost' philosophy. I would turn down Rodgers in a heartbeat if he advocated the same thing. He doesn't seem to want to do so, however: Liverpool tend to come out of the blocks raring to go, and then sit back when they've built up a lead: I believe Rodgers intends to make both phases defensively solid, but given time constraints has only managed to secure the former as opposed to the latter.

 

[Grassroots]

1) to crap ones or comedy value ones I agree the press eat them alive but as I said earlier his record as a player and a coach will buy him enough time to get his feet comfy under the desk the press here already think he is pretty good to be fair.

2) that's the thing last year they was not a talented side in fact regarded by the Dutch press last year as third favourites for the title Psv and Feyenoord on paper were the better teams

3) I cant argue this point as I do not think he had very a very good back 4 but that's opinion at best ,Ajax have to defend from the front its a complete team system if players stop doing there jobs it can and does fall to bits

4) I think we can fairly well say he knows exactly how to handle big players and egos he spent his entire career doing so watch him in old footage boss his own team from the back and its quite well documented from players he has coached that he gets on well with them but is not shy in putting them in there place when needed and still gets the required respect.

 

[milo]

Cheeky. I already did turn down the chance to keep Sherwood, who is the living embodiment of the 'defence be damned, score whatever the cost' philosophy. I would turn down Rodgers in a heartbeat if he advocated the same thing. He doesn't seem to want to do so, however: Liverpool tend to come out of the blocks raring to go, and then sit back when they've built up a lead: I believe Rodgers intends to make both phases defensively solid, but given time constraints has only managed to secure the former as opposed to the latter.

I agree. I think that Rodgers is trying to turn a weakness into a virtue

 

[Grassroots]

I'm not sure that I agree with the bolded bit. What makes you think that is the case?

A manager can walk straight in to a country and kick its collective **** and this has been done here and abroad on many occasions they don't have to adjust to the physical side of the game or the speed of it they need to be well organised have a plan and be able to communicate effectively that plan to the players and have the players on board with there system.

If its good and works (wenger with he's perfect counter to 442) when he first came to England for example) then they will hit the ground running no problem if they are not (gross) well the flames take a while to go out

 

[billyiddo]

I can't say i have noticed that about Rodgers at Liverpool, from what i have seen it looks as though he doesn't know how to get them defending well - so instead focuses on outscoring their opponents.

 

[milo]

A manager can walk straight in to a country and kick its collective **** and this has been done here and abroad on many occasions they don't have to adjust to the physical side of the game or the speed of it they need to be well organised have a plan and be able to communicate effectively that plan to the players and have the players on board with there system.

If its good and works (wenger with he's perfect counter to 442) when he first came to England for example) then they will hit the ground running no problem if they are not (gross) well the flames take a while to go out

Can you think of a manager who came to the Premier League and kicked **** without either having **** loads of cash or inheriting a good side?

 

[milo]

I can't say i have noticed that about Rodgers at Liverpool, from what i have seen it looks as though he doesn't know how to get them defending well - so instead focuses on outscoring their opponents.

I think that he knows they have a ropey defence, so they come out fast in the hope of being out of sight early in the game. It will be interesting to see who they sign this summer because it will be a real test of whether he can spot a defender.

 

[billyiddo]

I think that he knows they have a ropey defence, so they come out fast in the hope of being out of sight early in the game. It will be interesting to see who they sign this summer because it will be a real test of whether he can spot a defender.

signing Sahko wouldn't fill me with confidence. who else has he signed for the defensive positions?

 

[billyiddo]

Can you think of a manager who came to the Premier League and kicked **** without either having **** loads of cash or inheriting a good side?

i think this summer our new manager will come in to a good squad and have a reasonable amount of money to play with, so id argue he'd have those two bases covered, more or less

 

[Grassroots]

Can you think of a manager who came to the Premier League and kicked **** without either having **** loads of cash or inheriting a good side?

Wenger for starters took over from rioch had a good system and a great counter to 442

In fairness you cant take away cash and good side because they are now part of our game sadly

I would even go as far as to say a really good manager would have had us challenging the top 3 the last Cpl of years as we in my opinion bar a Cpl have a very good squad that should be performing better

 

[braineclipse]

i think both Pocchetino and DeBoer's supposed good record with regards to blooding in the youth players in their respective jobs will no doubt give them the edge, in Levys mind at least.

i can certainly see the positives in going down that route, from the Clubs perspective at least. we have worked hard to make the Development squad as good as it can be over the years, i think we do need to have a man in charge at the top who is willing (and able) to bring through youth players.

Agreed, and the comments made by Levy at the Trust meeting suggested that experience bringing through youth players and attacking football was a focus when looking for a new manager. I still think that makes Benitez unlikely and Poch and FdB front runners (with the assumption that Martinez isn't gettable).

1) Perhaps on the continent that may be the case, but England does have a football culture that is very unforgiving to foreign managers, imo. The media will be hostile to anyone not English and not ready to give them a ready quip every game, the demands for instant success are much louder here in England than on the continent (barring insanity-inducing managerial climates like Italy), and the adversarial nature of the English game is unique as far as I can tell, with cooperation between and across clubs much less intensive than in places like Italy and the Netherlands. It is as unforgiving as it gets, and thus a manager who's come through all of that with a decent CV (Rafa, Poch) is a better choice on those standards, imo.

2) I read it. Fine, Ajax were unlucky in the CL. The article does however heavily gloss over their EL record: for such a talented side, they really should have gotten farther than they did, perhaps even won the thing outright at some point in the last few years. Okay, in the first two years of FdB's term they were European novices and had to restore their league record, so the EL must have seemed unappealing or unimportant to them. The last two, however? When they were experienced in Europe and could focus more on European competitions? No excuses there, imo, they did poorly. Worse sides than Ajax have gotten to the semi-finals of the Europa League.

3) After 2013-2014, I'm surprised anyone would still condone horrific defending and individual errors if it meant scoring goals at the other end. We should be looking for a manager who can both craft a steely defence and score a few goals: if De Boer can only achieve the latter by sacrificing the former, then he's clearly not very good, is he?.

4) Fair point, although again, his coaching of them does not indicate his readiness to handle both harsh conditions and high-maintenance players in bigger leagues like ours.

I agree, and well put.

On the first point I still think that the difference in quality is also worth mentioning. AVB's tactics worked brilliantly in Portugal with Porto, with us not quite as well. The leagues outside the top 4-5 leagues in Europe has a bigger gulf in quality between the top teams and the bottom half teams than the gulf in quality between us and the PL bottom half I think. So far FdB hasn't proven that his way of implementing his tactics will work in the PL. He might adjust just fine, he might not, that's clearly a negative for him compared to the other candidates.

 

[milo]

Here is the breakdown of second choice votes

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[milo]

Wenger for starters took over from rioch had a good system and a great counter to 442

Wenger had the advantage of inheriting the best defence in the league.

 

[Baleforce]

and Bergkamp

and wright

 

[Grassroots]

and Bergkamp

and wright

I thought he bought wright I am probably wrong on that one :-k

 

[billyiddo]

Richard Wright maybe :lol:

 

[braineclipse]

signing Sahko wouldn't fill me with confidence. who else has he signed for the defensive positions?

Cissokho on loan (and Mignolet if you count him). Agreed that he hasn't impressed all that much in that regard so far.