The midweek/weekend games thread

[Modric THFC]

Not in the league he hasn't. Ronaldo out-scored him by 9 goals alone last season. Around 8 of his goals this season are from 'secondary' competitions such as the 2 Super Cups, and Club World Cup.

I strongly hope this year's Golden Ball goes to Ronaldo - he's been immense in the league for them and looks set to drag them to 1st place which is a monumental achievement bearing in mind it would be done during a time where the Qatar Foundation is at its peak and Messi is in sublime form.

Around 8? I'm glad you have all the facts at hand.
Ronaldo has 52 and Messi has 61 goals in the competitions they both have played in this season. There's no point in including the World Club Cup or the Uefa SuperCup.

If you want to make an argument for Ronaldo I suggest its that he has a better goal scoring record considering his starting position on the pitch versus Messi's. If Messi was playing out wide like Ronaldo he wouldnt score half the goals he does.

 

[ArcspacE]

There's no point in including the World Club Cup or the Uefa SuperCup.

Why not? Those are clearly being added towards his tally this season by fanatic fanboys on wikipedia.

Included in those 61 he has 3 in the Spanish Super Cup, 1 in UEFA's Super Cup and 2 in the CWC = 6. I said around 8 from memory.

I simply noted that in the league Ronaldo has been having the upper hand for nearly 2 years now which is in my view impressive. Not to mention his ridiculous return of more than a goal per game from midfield (entering Puskas-land) and pure explosivness as a player, in addition to the range of goals he's capable of scoring as opposed to tap-ins following sedation of the oppostion from 456 successive 2 yard passes.

 

[zin]

Why not? Those are clearly being added towards his tally this season by fanatic fanboys on wikipedia.

Included in those 61 he has 3 in the Spanish Super Cup, 1 in UEFA's Super Cup and 2 in the CWC = 6. I said around 8 from memory.

I simply noted that in the league Ronaldo has been having the upper hand for nearly 2 years now which is in my view impressive. Not to mention his ridiculous return of more than a goal per game from midfield (entering Puskas-land) and pure explosivness as a player, in addition to the range of goals he's capable of scoring as opposed to tap-ins following sedation of the oppostion from 456 successive 2 yard passes.

flimflam, back your claims up for once, I want to see Gamecasts of all the games he's played in, his average position in every game compared to Messi, how many players he has playing in front of him etc... all these are foundless opinions coming out your arse until you can PROVE otherwise. Funny how you suddenly only throw the league goals stat in, dismiss the "secondary competitions" whilst ignoring the Spanish Cup (oh surprise surprise Ronaldo has scored a goal more) AND don't even bother mentioning the Champions League (6 goals less than Messi) and ignore assists (of which Messi has more than double). Typical ArcspacE SELECTIVE arguing. Pathetic bitter Madridsta.

 

[zin]

Oh and if you think Messi only scores tap-ins you are even more deluded than I thought and that's saying something.

 

[ArcspacE]

If we take out the 2 competition Ronaldo did not partake in - CWC and Super cup the stats are as follows

Ronaldo - 47 games / 52 goals. - 1.11 goals per game

Messi - 48 games / 58 goals - 1.2 goals per game


League only

Ronadlo 32 games / 40 goals - 1.25 goals per game

Messi - 31 games / 39 goals - 1.25 goals per game


All time league

Ronaldo - 95 games / 106 goals - 1.12 goals per game

Messi - 208 games / 158 goals - 0.76 goals per game



If anything - Ronaldo has been matching and improving on some of his figure and should be undoubtedly mentioned in the same breath as Messi, imv

 

[zin]

If you are going to include the all time league you may as well include Ronaldo's Man Utd career where he barely scored to begin with or compare their records at their respective ages OR take the stats where both have played in the same league at the same time. Your SELECTION is only there to accomodate Ronaldo.

 

[zin]

Oh and do include assists.

 

[ArcspacE]

flimflam, back your claims up for once, I want to see Gamecasts of all the games he's played in, his average position in every game compared to Messi, how many players he has playing in front of him etc...

Tell me where to look and I'll find them. Chalkboards closed down unfortunetly but those were for PL only, iirc. I watch most of their games live - and judging by your level of disagreement - you do too - so you'd know.

Ronaldo plays out-wide behind either Benzema, Higuain or often both. Last night they played a classic Mourinho 4-3-3 with Ronaldo out left.

Messi plays as a 'false 9' or whatever toss-word pimple-infested teenage blogger qunts have manufactured to describe his position - i.e. he roams their front line and is the fucrum of all their attacking play. Sanchez for example employs Ronaldo's position more often these days.


Ronaldo is a machine, a fine-tuned genetically superior weapon for scoring goals and doing so with ease. He's a product of talent along with hours of training and refinement.

Messi is a natural talent of 1 in 100 million perhaps. Possibly even more


Both are unique talents in the game and levels above the rest but aslo at the very least - on par over the last 2 season, imv

 

[ArcspacE]

If you are going to include the all time league you may as well include Ronaldo's Man Utd career where he barely scored to begin with or compare their records at their respective ages OR take the stats where both have played in the same league at the same time. Your SELECTION is only there to accomodate Ronaldo.

No - it accommodates 2 players in the same league - far more of an objective analysis. Unless of course Messi played in the PL - then I can include his stats too.

Messi also plays in the better selection on paper overall, don't forget that

 

[Crawley]

flimflam, back your claims up for once, I want to see Gamecasts of all the games he's played in, his average position in every game compared to Messi, how many players he has playing in front of him etc... all these are foundless opinions coming out your arse until you can PROVE otherwise. Funny how you suddenly only throw the league goals stat in, dismiss the "secondary competitions" whilst ignoring the Spanish Cup (oh surprise surprise Ronaldo has scored a goal more) AND don't even bother mentioning the Champions League (6 goals less than Messi) and ignore assists (of which Messi has more than double). Typical ArcspacE SELECTIVE arguing. Pathetic bitter Madridsta.

Zin, argue your point by all means, but be careful not to drift so close to personal abuse please.

 

[DanishWhite]

If we take out the 2 competition Ronaldo did not partake in - CWC and Super cup the stats are as follows

Ronaldo - 47 games / 52 goals. - 1.11 goals per game

Messi - 48 games / 58 goals - 1.2 goals per game


League only

Ronadlo 32 games / 40 goals - 1.25 goals per game

Messi - 31 games / 39 goals - 1.25 goals per game


All time league

Ronaldo - 95 games / 106 goals - 1.12 goals per game

Messi - 208 games / 158 goals - 0.76 goals per game



If anything - Ronaldo has been matching and improving on some of his figure and should be undoubtedly mentioned in the same breath as Messi, imv

Can't help thinking what it could have been like, had Christiano Rolando ended up in Barcelona rather than Madrid.

 

[diego_maradona]

If we take out the 2 competition Ronaldo did not partake in - CWC and Super cup the stats are as follows

Ronaldo - 47 games / 52 goals. - 1.11 goals per game

Messi - 48 games / 58 goals - 1.2 goals per game


League only

Ronadlo 32 games / 40 goals - 1.25 goals per game

Messi - 31 games / 39 goals - 1.25 goals per game


All time league

Ronaldo - 95 games / 106 goals - 1.12 goals per game

Messi - 208 games / 158 goals - 0.76 goals per game



If anything - Ronaldo has been matching and improving on some of his figure and should be undoubtedly mentioned in the same breath as Messi, imv

What are the assist stats?

 

[scaramanga]

Can't help thinking what it could have been like, had Christiano Rolando ended up in Barcelona rather than Madrid.

Arcy's head would have exploded.

 

[ArcspacE]

I don't know where to find Ronaldo's assits. Wiki fanboys haven't entered those

 

[diego_maradona]

I don't know where to find Ronaldo's assits. Wiki fanboys haven't entered those

I would imagine Messi's are better. Cristiano Ronaldo is talked of in the same breath as Messi in my opinion. The two are simply miles apart from everyone else. But Messi is a special special talent. He is irresistible and doesn't often let you down when Barca need him. I have seen Cristiano lose out in the personal duel between the 2 in head to heads far too many times. Barca v United, Barca v Real.

Hardly ever does Cristiano come up with the match winning goal/assist/contribution in comparison to Messi.

 

[ArcspacE]

Hardly ever does Cristiano come up with the match winning goal/assist/contribution in comparison to Messi.

In their derby games or games in general?

 

[diego_maradona]

In derby games or games in general?

In head 2 head games. Barca v Real, Barca v United. How many has messi won over ronaldo? And how often has Messi been the deciding factor. I don't know myself, I haven't checked. Just everytime I see the 2 clash it always appears to be Messi who provides the match winning performance.

 

[ArcspacE]

I'm not sure but that statistic in isolation doesn't paint an objetctive picture. Ronaldo has been a collosus of a player in arguably the marginally weaker side for the last 2 years. The entire Barca team is formed around Messi. Ronaldo is merely a winger who scores a riduclous amount of goals

Sadly - I feel the Golden Ball would go to whoever wins the CL next month

 

[indospurs]

Ronaldo is a machine, a fine-tuned genetically superior weapon for scoring goals and doing so with ease. He's a product of talent along with hours of training and refinement.

Messi is a natural talent of 1 in 100 million perhaps. Possibly even more

Could even say several billion, planet's population and all that !!

However, Messi does seem to do it more often on the big occassion in club games than ronaldo. They are both unplayable at times, we are blessed to watch two fine specimen of footy elite players at the same time. And dammit, they are still sooo young ...

 

[diego_maradona]

I'm not sure but that statistic in isolation doesn't paint an objetctive picture. Ronaldo has been a collosus of a player in arguably the marginally weaker side for the last 2 years. The entire Barca team is formed around Messi. Ronaldo is merely a winger who scores a riduclous amount of goals

Sadly - I feel the Golden Ball would go to whoever wins the CL next month

I don't think it's true that the Barca team is built around Messi any more than the Real team around Cristiano. Yes Guardiola will seek to exploit the talents of Messi as much as possible, but to suggest Mourinho doesn't do the same with Cristiano is simply not true. They play in their respective favored positions, and clearly enjoy it as their incredible stats prove.

I think whilst it's not a definitive factor in deciding who is better, the head to head comparison is some what significant. It's an absolutely massive game when the 2 collide. And each respective side looks to their talisman to produce the goods in the biggest of occasions. When one is continually trumping the other I'd imagine it's not a fact to ignore.

I also think who wins the CL, La Liga other cup competitions does matter when deciding the Golden Ball. Again, not the be all and end all but still significant