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The Goon Thread

I've never heard of a Jewish football fan being upset or feeling insulted over Spurs' fans use of the word 'Yid'. [Other than David Baddiel, who unfortunately for him, follows the most racist team I can think of]

Does anybody have an example of a person of Jewish heritage being insulted by Spurs' fans use of the word 'Yid'?
 
Baddiel really should look closer to home and start having at look at his own team's fans. I take it the chanting doesn't stop him going to Spurs-Chelsea games at Stamford Bridge!

Can't believe people are sticking up for Frimpong. Who cares if he gets charged for it? Got no sympathy for him whatsoever. Why didn't he just say I'll enjoy living in my mansion/smashing loads of birds (or blokes) as a result of being a pro footballer rather than resort to that? I've got no problem with Arsenal players not liking Spurs, I wish some of our players would show a bit of dislike for them, but Frimpong has achieved absolutely nothing in his career for Arsenal or any other club! It would be like Harry Kane giving it large to scum fans on twitter. He'll never make it at Arsenal, probably end up knocking around the championship level. Footballers giving it that have no ability to back it up really gets my goat!
 
7percent said:
I've never heard of a Jewish football fan being upset or feeling insulted over Spurs' fans use of the word 'Yid'. [Other than David Baddiel, who unfortunately for him, follows the most racist team I can think of]

Does anybody have an example of a person of Jewish heritage being insulted by Spurs' fans use of the word 'Yid'?
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I think David Baddiel was offended by what Chelsea supporters were chanting at a Spurs game - he said he thought the fact that Spurs supporters referred to themselves as Yids gave people cover to use it in a racist way. That's what I took from it anyway.
 
I never use the word. Like it or not it's a racist slur and just because you arent offended by it doesnt mean the bloke sat next to you doesnt mind either.
 
SandroSays said:
I think David Baddiel was offended by what Chelsea supporters were chanting at a Spurs game - he said he thought the fact that Spurs supporters referred to themselves as Yids gave people cover to use it in a racist way. That's what I took from it anyway.
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So it's our fault?
 
Naughton16 said:
I never use the word. Like it or not it's a racist slur and just because you arent offended by it doesnt mean the bloke sat next to you doesnt mind either.
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Ok, do you think that it would be reasonable for anyone to take racial offence if someone said any of the following phrases:


"There's a chink in the wall"

"Yank on this chain"

"My favourite TV show is Spooks"

"I like Bounty bars"


Same logic. There are words in all of those sentences that can be racist and offensive if used in a certain context. But your mouth moving in that way, or those letters being put in that combination if it's written down, doesn't automatically mean racism and offence. I am a Jewish fan, but when I have heard the word yid at a football match my brain never even makes the connection between football and Judaism. If a Neo-Nazi skinhead called me a yid outside a synagogue, that would be a different, but at a football match the racism isn't there so why go looking for it? You will only be offended by a word with multiple meanings if you choose to be. I choose to take things as they were intended.
 
SUIYHA said:
Ok, do you think that it would be reasonable for anyone to take racial offence if someone said any of the following phrases:


"There's a chink in the wall"

"Yank on this chain"

"My favourite TV show is Spooks"

"I like Bounty bars"


Same logic. There are words in all of those sentences that can be racist and offensive if used in a certain context. But your mouth moving in that way, or those letters being put in that combination if it's written down, doesn't automatically mean racism and offence. I am a Jewish fan, but when I have heard the word yid at a football match my brain never even makes the connection between football and Judaism. If a Neo-Nazi skinhead called me a yid outside a synagogue, that would be a different, but at a football match the racism isn't there so why go looking for it? You will only be offended by a word with multiple meanings if you choose to be. I choose to take things as they were intended.
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The evolution of words is a very difficult subject to get into though. At what point does a word evolve? Is it when 10 people use it? or 20?


I agree with what you say. It's just difficult to decide upon a line in the sand.
 
Spursalot said:
The evolution of words is a very difficult subject to get into though. At what point does a word evolve? Is it when 10 people use it? or 20?


I agree with what you say. It's just difficult to decide upon a line in the sand.
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I think if it's fairly easy to see that somebody is using a word that can be used in a racist context in a non-racist one then they probably don't mean the racist term.

Tottenham have called themselves the yids for generations now. Everybody knows that the people shouting yid army are thinking only about football and not about Judaism. People can sit there and choose to be offended if they want, but those of us with half a brain cell will take it for what it is, which is nothing to do with racism.
 
SUIYHA said:
I think if it's fairly easy to see that somebody is using a word that can be used in a racist context in a non-racist one then they probably don't mean the racist term.

Tottenham have called themselves the yids for generations now. Everybody knows that the people shouting yid army are thinking only about football and not about Judaism. People can sit there and choose to be offended if they want, but those of us with half a brain cell will take it for what it is, which is nothing to do with racism.
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You can yes, but if i was to wander round and start using N****** or P*ki or any other word in a non-racist way then I truly believe i would get into some sort of trouble with the authorities.


We have, and i agree with you again, however the law is sometimes slow on the uptake...
 
billyiddo said:
If we say it's ok to call ourselves Yids in a football sense then we should accept it when someone uses ut as a negative (in this sense)

Absoloute joke if Frimping gets in proper trouble over this
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No, this isn't how it works. Yid army is different to 'you dirty fudging yid ****', no one should have to accept the latter because they use the former.

Plus it's the FA doing the charging.
 
Yid is not a race or religion it is a Language. It was spoken by European Jews who thus gradually became known as Yids. Therefore it was used as a derogatory slang term for those who spoke the language who happened to be Jews. That's my understanding anyway.
 
I dont agree with the spurs fan saying to him I hope you break your legs but Frimpong needs to show some restraint and just ignore people

He has an IQ of 0 so clearly cant, be easier if they banned all players from having it
 
Danners9 said:
No, this isn't how it works. Yid army is different to 'you dirty fudging yid ****', no one should have to accept the latter because they use the former.

Plus it's the FA doing the charging.
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But he said yid scum to a spurs supporter - no different to me saying gooner scum to an arsenal fan. It would be hipocrital of us to say he shouldnt use the word in a negative when clearly using it as a reference to spurs supporters unless you want a blanket ban on the word OR any football related insult. Had he said gass the yid scum or something like that then it becomes something else

Seems to me some people want their cake and eat it - we should be allowed to call ourselves Yids as a reference to Spurs fans but no one else is allowed to use the word against us ? If the word truly has evolved, as many people like to claim, then there's no reason why it can't be used as an insult - imo
 
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My objection to Baddiel is that he has launched a campaign to stop use of the Y-word in football and focuses on Tottenham. Where he mentions the behaviour of the Chelsea fans its to say they wouldn't use the abuse without Spurs fans using it. Curiously, he doesn't mention the use of the word by other fans before Spurs fans took up the word.

If his campaign focused on the Chelsea fans and then mentioned that the use by Spurs fans makes his campaign more difficult, then I would have sympathy for his argument. But he doesn't. Instead his approach implies a moral equivalence in the use by Chelsea and Tottenham fans. The difference between chanting Yid Army in a positive manner and using gassing noises is more than a semantic distinction, but he wants the same reaction to both.

Take the quotes in the follow article:

The Baddiels are encouraged by the reaction of most clubs. “West Ham have just told me they will show the film to their fans,’’ David added.

“I get the impression that Chelsea, West Ham and Arsenal are keen to tackle it. Tottenham are much more sensitive about it. I don’t know whether they will show it or not. I’m sure some fans will react to it very badly, and start chanting the word more aggressively in a “you can’t tell me what to do” way. I am sure there will be some ‘I Am Spartacus’ moments.

“There is a particular bad energy around Tottenham to do with the Y-word. "

(source)
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He makes no distinction between how the Y-word is used by Tottenham, Chelsea, West Ham and Arsenal fans, but he highlights the different response of the clubs. Perhaps the difference is that we don't have a history of fans singing “[insert club name] are on their way to Auschwitz, Seig Heil. Hitler’s going to gas them again. Yiddo.’’ That requires a very different response to chants "Yid Army", but he makes them equivalent in his argument.


I think the author of this linked article makes a strong argument: http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/10437/
 
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billyiddo said:
But he said yid scum to a spurs supporter - no different to me saying gooner scum to an arsenal fan. It would be hipocrital of us to say he shouldnt use the word in a negative when clearly using it as a reference to spurs supporters unless you want a blanket ban on the word OR any football related insult. Had he said gass the yid scum or something like that then it becomes something else

Seems to me some people want their cake and eat it - we should be allowed to call ourselves Yids as a reference to Spurs fans but no one else is allowed to use the word against us ? If the word truly has evolved, as many people like to claim, then there's no reason why it can't be used as an insult - imo
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Huge difference. Gooner doesn't have any kind of racial/religious connotations. It should, but it doesn't.
He's just an idiot. He said it in a football context, but he should know the other side of it and just not say things like that on twitter. He has a responsibility as a footballer, and as the FA are in charge of footballer's behaviour. The fan's comment to him was equally tasteless

Yes, you're right, no one else is allowed to use the word against us because it is a racist word in the wrong context. In the same way that a person saying to another person in a friendly manner 'wot up, my nigger' isn't racist but someone else saying 'you fudging nigger' is racist, regardless of colour or ethnicity. It is about how the word is used and how the phrase is received, the context. Like most language.

The whole point behind Spurs fans adopting the word is to show it has no effect and it's been used as an inclusive term rather than an offensive term.

It's key to note that it is not Spurs complaining here, it's the FA. So your 'some people' is who? The FA have a guideline document for players behaviour on Social Media. Like most companies will do.
 
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