The decision to fire AVB

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

id imagine that would be because what we have learned since the summer would contradict what he initially thought at the time

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I do think it was more difficult for AVB and he failed.

Rodgers succeeded when it was easier, then went on to succeed when it was much - much harder this season. But it wasn't as easy last season as you make it out to be. And worth noting that as "low pressure" "bare minimum" "just maintain the status quo" as that job was he took over where Benitez, Hodgson and Dalglish had failed to keep them happy. His job wasn't just to keep them where they were, but to make them stronger long term - relatively quickly.

We will never know how it would have been had the roles been reversed, but whatever the situations Rodgers succeeded and AVB failed. When it was certainly possible for the outcome to have been different.

And what I'm saying is, his job this season is easier to succeed because of the low pressure environment last season. Last season's building process will have contributed to this season's pushing on.

It's obvious why Benitez and Hodgson didn't keep the board happy, and Dalglish had come in, spent a boat load of money and generated only the League Cup in return. Maybe the FSG board thought, 'ok, chucking money at the situation clearly doesn't work, and we need to sort the finances at the club out anyway, why don't we give the new coach time and see what we can do that way' and they are being vindicated.

Rodgers last season was only 'under pressure' to deliver a demonstrable brand of football and maintain the extremely low placing status quo he was picking up from the previous management. It's a different world to our expectations last season.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think you're purposely missing the point tbh.

underestimating the amount of time new signings need to adjust to this league is one thing but how exactly can your opinion go from:

being happy that the board supporting AVB with the new signings to claiming he wasn't supported in being allowed to bring the players he wants in. I mean wtf? you only recently still mention Moutinho as evidence he "wasn't supported" but totally neglect to bring up the 7 new signings that you previously claimed was evidence the board supported the manager in the transfer market.

Since it became clear AVB wanted the summer transfer window to go differently? It's turned out to be classic Levy, using the investment in players to claim the manager was supported when actually supporting them and truly backing them comes down to more than that. AVB got some of the players he wanted no doubt, but it's became clear he wanted things to go down differently than they did.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

id imagine that would be because what we have learned since the summer would contradict what he initially thought at the time

Oh no oh no oh no....you're going the "who actually signed the players" route now? this just smacks of desperation now:lol:

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Since it became clear AVB wanted the summer transfer window to go differently? It's turned out to be classic Levy, using the investment in players to claim the manager was supported when actually supporting them and truly backing them comes down to more than that. AVB got some of the players he wanted no doubt, but it's became clear he wanted things to go down differently than they did.

You precious ex manager is to blame then as he openly championed Baldini for the DOF role both in public and in private. Maybe in future he should learn to keep his mouth shut.

Levy supported him again in that he took his advice and brought in the DOF that AVB was calling for.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

You precious ex manager is to blame then as he openly championed Baldini for the DOF role both in public and in private. Maybe in future he should learn to keep his mouth shut.

Buck stops with Levy. He gets all the praise in the world from me when things are going well and he gets the brunt of the criticism when things don't go well. He's the man in charge and that's the bed he lies in. He's made bad decision after bad decision when it comes to footballing matters at this club and the whole AVB saga was the final straw. He was a bad hire, because he didn't fit with what Levy wanted. He didn't do his due diligence properly and because of that we've wasted a year and allowed Liverpool to overtake us.

You can make arguments to say AVB could have done something differently, or Baldini, or Dawson, or Nabil Bentaleb if you wanted. Everyone has played a part in why this season has been awful. But it all traces back to one man. And if it was the first time one of his punts had gone wrong, I'd be more inclined to forgive. This isn't the first decision he got badly wrong though, and I'm fed up with it.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Oh no oh no oh no....you're going the "who actually signed the players" route now? this just smacks of desperation now:lol:

funny that someone who likes to knock Levy for his failures to back Redknapp in the market is now struggling to get on board with the idea it was a similar circumstance for his replacement :-"

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

To address an AVB purchase comment earlier, he signed Paulinho at a time he also though he was still going to have Bale. I wonder if he'd have known Bale and his agent were going to force the move at Madrid's behest (which again I will say was not the case pre-Hong Kong) if he'd have signed another player?

One thing AVB never had was a Modric. And as I've said in other threads, Modric was a vital part of everything we did for a few seasons…

One comment about Tim to keep this thread on topic. I've come to the conclusion that I am getting a glimpse of what John Terry would be like if he got a shot at management…or at least what he'd sound like!!!

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

funny that someone who likes to knock Levy for his failures to back Redknapp in the market is now struggling to get on board with the idea it was a similar circumstance for his replacement :-"

But you're missing the point again?
He backed AVB by doing the number 1 thing AVB claimed he wanted...bring in a DOF. he then allowed AVB to choose what DOF he wanted. How exactly can he then be blamed about signings when it was our manager that continuously went on about Baldini:lol:

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

*beep* *beep* *beep* *beep*

Is it a bird? Is it a plane? NO, it's the sound of the NWND lorry reversing rapidly out of its "I was glad AVB was sacked" parking position.

Have I had a ridiculous change of heart re: AVB's qualities? Certainly not.

What I do believe, however, was that for all his faults, AVB had class. He respected the massive and traditional community institution he had been placed in charge of.

Even after his sacking, and his supposed fall-out with Levy & Baldini, he could have stuck the knife into the club. He didn't and bar one or two comments, he has respected the club and its decision to part with him.

I honestly couldn't fault AVB speaking to the media and defending his decisions and the club.

I don't think he was good enough or rather experienced enough for the job, but he was a credit to the club whilst in charge.

If sacking AVB means we have to put up with this poisonous, self-important, manipulative t**t dragging the club and his decisions through the dirt in public, then please come back Andre.

This Sandro business is embarrassing. I personally think Sandro is highly overrated by Spurs fans, but whatever his opinions, this classless self-serving media campaign is completely against what being a manager of a top, historic club is all about. If you're managing a minnow team like Stoke punching above their weight creating a siege mentality against the big boys then fine.

Gobbing off in every press conference possible to serve your own agenda is not acceptable. Please get rid of this clown as soon as possible.

=D>
Top man. Even when you were raving against the AVB I always enjoyed the passion behind your posts. Refreshingly open mate.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Buck stops with Levy. He gets all the praise in the world from me when things are going well and he gets the brunt of the criticism when things don't go well. He's the man in charge and that's the bed he lies in. He's made bad decision after bad decision when it comes to footballing matters at this club and the whole AVB saga was the final straw. He was a bad hire, because he didn't fit with what Levy wanted. He didn't do his due diligence properly and because of that we've wasted a year and allowed Liverpool to overtake us.

You can make arguments to say AVB could have done something differently, or Baldini, or Dawson, or Nabil Bentaleb if you wanted. Everyone has played a part in why this season has been awful. But it all traces back to one man. And if it was the first time one of his punts had gone wrong, I'd be more inclined to forgive. This isn't the first decision he got badly wrong though, and I'm fed up with it.

hahahaha oh man. So let me get this straight...

AVB finishes 5th and claims we need to bring in a DOF system....the chairman obliges. AVB then claims Baldini would be his preferred choice...the chairman obliges. The chairman then allows his DOF to do his job which is to recruit players to the cost of 100m plus...the chairman obliges. AVB then has some sort of issue with the DOF that he wanted and....it's the chairmans fault that AVB didn't get the players he wants?

GIVE




ME




A









BREAK

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

But you're missing the point again?
He backed AVB by doing the number 1 thing AVB claimed he wanted...bring in a DOF. he then allowed AVB to choose what DOF he wanted. How exactly can he then be blamed about signings when it was our manager that continuously went on about Baldini:lol:

I would guess because maybe it wasn't just Baldini operating on his own to bring in players either, or even Baldini and AVB working together to build the footballing side while Levy concentrated on the stadium and commercial deals for example. It seems like a lot of the signings were Levy style signings and that he had an influence in them too...to the detriment of what the head coach wanted.

The thing is this kind of leadership means we might well do well again next season or the one after. Because those Levy style young guys will be a year more mature and a year more settled. They'll get really good to the point where we may sneak a 4th and then just as looks like we can push on for the title, Eriksen will be sold having had a world class season and we'll go again. We are always stumbling into any success by hoping everything fits together eventually, rather than by going to some sort of plan and building. And while it may work to an extent because these young players will have potential and therefore a 'safety net' for improving, I'm not sure the club is going to get to where it wants to be by running itself this way. And that's why I blame Levy. We've seen the cycle repeat too many times now.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

hahahaha oh man. So let me get this straight...

AVB finishes 5th and claims we need to bring in a DOF system....the chairman obliges. AVB then claims Baldini would be his preferred choice...the chairman obliges. The chairman then allows his DOF to do his job which is to recruit players to the cost of 100m plus...the chairman obliges. AVB then has some sort of issue with the DOF that he wanted and....it's the chairmans fault that AVB didn't get the players he wants?

GIVE




ME




A









BREAK

See above. This is all assuming Baldini went out and got the players he and AVB wanted with minimal interference from Levy. If Levy's influence was in any way detrimental to what the vision of AVB/Baldini would have been then I would say he hasn't been backed.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

But you're missing the point again?
He backed AVB by doing the number 1 thing AVB claimed he wanted...bring in a DOF. he then allowed AVB to choose what DOF he wanted. How exactly can he then be blamed about signings when it was our manager that continuously went on about Baldini:lol:

does AVB wanting a DoF, Baldini even, mean that he automatically signed up to agree with every decision which was made from that point onward?

aren't you quite critical of the way Baldini went about his business in the summer? "can't wait for this bozo to leave" i believe is what you said in the recent Baldini thread (or maybe it was Jabroni...) one would assume then that you are open to the possibility that Baldini failed the manager in terms of targets acquired? otherwise, if you believe it was AVB who wanted these players then that would beg the question why do you think Baldini isn't cut out for the job?

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I would guess because maybe it wasn't just Baldini operating on his own to bring in players either, or even Baldini and AVB working together to build the footballing side while Levy concentrated on the stadium and commercial deals for example. It seems like a lot of the signings were Levy style signings and that he had an influence in them too...to the detriment of what the head coach wanted.

The thing is this kind of leadership means we might well do well again next season or the one after. Because those Levy style young guys will be a year more mature and a year more settled. They'll get really good to the point where we may sneak a 4th and then just as looks like we can push on for the title, Eriksen will be sold having had a world class season and we'll go again. We are always stumbling into any success by hoping everything fits together eventually, rather than by going to some sort of plan and building. And while it may work to an extent because these young players will have potential and therefore a 'safety net' for improving, I'm not sure the club is going to get to where it wants to be by running itself this way. And that's why I blame Levy. We've seen the cycle repeat too many times now.

you're in full on desperation mode now imho. A lot of those signings were "Levy style signings"?

You're in cloud cuckoo land if you genuinely think Levy brought in Baldini and then suddenly took it upon himself to scout a random romanian cb, or a random winger from Belgium and decide himself those are the players needed.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

come on KD let's not spoil an otherwise decent debate with such an abrasive tone

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

you're in full on desperation mode now imho. A lot of those signings were "Levy style signings"?

You're in cloud cuckoo land if you genuinely think Levy brought in Baldini and then suddenly took it upon himself to scout a random romanian cb, or a random winger from Belgium and decide himself those are the players needed.

We know how Levy works. He offers Jol Jenas because it's a good deal and it's a young player with potential even though we already have 6 central midfielders.

I'm not saying Levy was going out there himself and over ruling Balidini and AVB. What I'm saying is that maybe Baldini ended up working more with Levy than with AVB, in which case Baldini's contacts opened up some deals for young players with potential from over the world.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

does AVB wanting a DoF, Baldini even, mean that he automatically signed up to agree with every decision which was made from that point onward?

aren't you quite critical of the way Baldini went about his business in the summer? "can't wait for this bozo to leave" i believe is what you said in the recent Baldini thread (or maybe it was Jabroni...) one would assume then that you are open to the possibility that Baldini failed the manager in terms of targets acquired?

Yes baldini failed...and AVB failed....they both were responsible and both failed. One was sacked so naturally i wanted the other gone too.

Hmmmmm yes lol...of course. if AVB is openly spouting off about Baldini to the media then he must have been aware of how he operates. Unless he's a complete fool you don't cosign somebody you know little to nothing about. Our chairman was nice enough to implement a DOF system and bring in the DOF that our manager was harping on about. This is unheard of...yet levy did that. Excuse me if i have little to no sympathy with AVB if the man he championed for a job wasn't the DOF he thought he'd be.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

come on KD let's not spoil an otherwise decent debate with such an abrasive tone

i apologise but BOL does not think at all rationally when it has anything to do with AVB.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

i apologise but BOL does not think at all rationally when it has anything to do with AVB.

i think maybe the same could said for you - probably all of us :lol: