The decision to fire AVB

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Yes baldini failed...and AVB failed....they both were responsible and both failed. One was sacked so naturally i wanted the other gone too.

Hmmmmm yes lol...of course. if AVB is openly spouting off about Baldini to the media then he must have been aware of how he operates. Unless he's a complete fool you don't cosign somebody you know little to nothing about. Our chairman was nice enough to implement a DOF system and bring in the DOF that our manager was harping on about. This is unheard of...yet levy did that. Excuse me if i have little to no sympathy with AVB if the man he championed for a job wasn't the DOF he thought he'd be.

Curious as to why Levy gets no blame in this saga?

Whether it's weak leadership in letting his subordinate dictate too much of the football strategy or whether it's making the wrong hires, or whether it's sacking Harry in the first place to take us on this journey, why is he not to blame at any point even though AVB and Baldini are? Poor Levy just helplessly furrowing away at the top of the club unable to affect anything he wants?

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

i apologise but BOL does not think at all rationally when it has anything to do with AVB.

I'm actually batting back your points with relative ease and I'm not having to stretch my opinions or bend my arguments in any way. I'm pretty consistent in terms of what I think.

You seem to be saying that because Levy got the DOF AVB recommended (which is a fair enough decision from Levy) that everything following that was exactly how AVB wanted it to go down. That there's no possibility of anything that happened that AVB may perceive as a lack of support. And I think since he's been gone it's come out that there were divisions on certain things and that he wasn't supported.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Yes baldini failed...and AVB failed....they both were responsible and both failed. One was sacked so naturally i wanted the other gone too.

Hmmmmm yes lol...of course. if AVB is openly spouting off about Baldini to the media then he must have been aware of how he operates. Unless he's a complete fool you don't cosign somebody you know little to nothing about. Our chairman was nice enough to implement a DOF system and bring in the DOF that our manager was harping on about. This is unheard of...yet levy did that. Excuse me if i have little to no sympathy with AVB if the man he championed for a job wasn't the DOF he thought he'd be.

i don't think wanting someone to come in as a DoF means you are implicated in any *supposed* wrong doing by that person in that role.

the failure as i see it is that AVB was provided with some players he did not want, whilst also having the key player to his current system sold. meaning we started the season back at square one - in the sense that we had no consistent team base to build from in an attacking sense. AVB then went on to mismanage the players that were at his disposal - i say this based purely on the time he was in charge this season, his time was cut short so you have to draw conclusions on the data available... i do however think that had he seen out the season then we would probably have started to see some progress made. or maybe not, at least in that case we'd have a better idea than i believe we did at the time of his sacking/mutual split.

of course this doesn't take in to account his supposed lack of fight in keeping his job/apparent willingness to call it a day.

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Yes baldini failed...and AVB failed....they both were responsible and both failed. One was sacked so naturally i wanted the other gone too.

Hmmmmm yes lol...of course. if AVB is openly spouting off about Baldini to the media then he must have been aware of how he operates. Unless he's a complete fool you don't cosign somebody you know little to nothing about. Our chairman was nice enough to implement a DOF system and bring in the DOF that our manager was harping on about. This is unheard of...yet levy did that. Excuse me if i have little to no sympathy with AVB if the man he championed for a job wasn't the DOF he thought he'd be.

I would offer in defence of Baldini that his targets are longer term than the first team coaches, that he came in late enough that it is possible that many of the targets were the clubs and that several accounts have said that he was spending a huge amount of time in Madrid trying to get the most out of Real that we could.

I think that the problem that any of us have in judging a DoF, much like the coaching staff, is that we have very little information to judge them on and most of those quick to judge are doing so on prejudice and supposition.

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

To address an AVB purchase comment earlier, he signed Paulinho at a time he also though he was still going to have Bale. I wonder if he'd have known Bale and his agent were going to force the move at Madrid's behest (which again I will say was not the case pre-Hong Kong) if he'd have signed another player?

One thing AVB never had was a Modric. And as I've said in other threads, Modric was a vital part of everything we did for a few seasons…

One comment about Tim to keep this thread on topic. I've come to the conclusion that I am getting a glimpse of what John Terry would be like if he got a shot at management…or at least what he'd sound like!!!

It's not Modric we missed per se but the play maker role which was not replaced when he left. Added to that AVB IMHO failed to make proper use of Thudd. Someone who moves the ball quickly from defence to attack. This has been addressed by bringing in Christian Eriksen albeit a slightly more offensive player who I think will fit that role superbly next season when he has acclimatised to the pace of this league. But unfortunately we were fixated with getting Moutinho and it would appear not pursuing alternatives such as eriksen. Dare I say it but I can see eriksen being bigger for us than Modric was.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

To address an AVB purchase comment earlier, he signed Paulinho at a time he also though he was still going to have Bale. I wonder if he'd have known Bale and his agent were going to force the move at Madrid's behest (which again I will say was not the case pre-Hong Kong) if he'd have signed another player?

One thing AVB never had was a Modric. And as I've said in other threads, Modric was a vital part of everything we did for a few seasons…

One comment about Tim to keep this thread on topic. I've come to the conclusion that I am getting a glimpse of what John Terry would be like if he got a shot at management…or at least what he'd sound like!!!

I must say, of the seven buys we made in the summer I generally feel they can be split into two camps:

1) assuming that Bale is staying: Paulinho (to increase the no of goals from midfield, arrive late in box after typical Bale/Lennon breakaway), Chadli (Utility player for either wing, plus possible back-up in front 3 positions), Soldado (the poacher we'd been needing to get on the end of Lennon/Bale crosses into box), Capoue (Sandro replacement, so we didn't have to rely on Scott Parker and his pirouettes), Chiriches (replacing Caulker)

2) with knowledge that Bale is indeed going and to provide some creativity/thrust: Prime target - Willian, then Eriksen and Lamela when that failed.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Curious as to why Levy gets no blame in this saga?

Whether it's weak leadership in letting his subordinate dictate too much of the football strategy or whether it's making the wrong hires, or whether it's sacking Harry in the first place to take us on this journey, why is he not to blame at any point even though AVB and Baldini are? Poor Levy just helplessly furrowing away at the top of the club unable to affect anything he wants?

Levy gets blame for a few things from me:

1) Hiring AVB due to impressive powerpoint presentation when their were better options.
2) Not having a suitable back up option once deciding AVB had to go.

He's not to blame for the transfer activity on this occasion though. He did everything the manager had asked of him (bring a DOF and hire Baldini) so i refuse to blame him if AVB and Baldini couldn't co-exist.


It's since been revealed that Baldini brought in Chiriches, Lamela and Eriksen ....and AVB the others. I am now extremely grateful a DOF was brought in and AVB was not in charge of all signings.

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

*beep* *beep* *beep* *beep*

Is it a bird? Is it a plane? NO, it's the sound of the NWND lorry reversing rapidly out of its "I was glad AVB was sacked" parking position.

Have I had a ridiculous change of heart re: AVB's qualities? Certainly not.

What I do believe, however, was that for all his faults, AVB had class. He respected the massive and traditional community institution he had been placed in charge of.

Even after his sacking, and his supposed fall-out with Levy & Baldini, he could have stuck the knife into the club. He didn't and bar one or two comments, he has respected the club and its decision to part with him.

I honestly couldn't fault AVB speaking to the media and defending his decisions and the club.

I don't think he was good enough or rather experienced enough for the job, but he was a credit to the club whilst in charge.

If sacking AVB means we have to put up with this poisonous, self-important, manipulative t**t dragging the club and his decisions through the dirt in public, then please come back Andre.

This Sandro business is embarrassing. I personally think Sandro is highly overrated by Spurs fans, but whatever his opinions, this classless self-serving media campaign is completely against what being a manager of a top, historic club is all about. If you're managing a minnow team like Stoke punching above their weight creating a siege mentality against the big boys then fine.

Gobbing off in every press conference possible to serve your own agenda is not acceptable. Please get rid of this clown as soon as possible.

Except of course when he was ****ging off the fans or at odds with our medical team. In fact when he was at odds with a lot of people behind the scenes. It just that different things anger different people.

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Levy gets blame for a few things from me:

1) Hiring AVB due to impressive powerpoint presentation when their were better options.
2) Not having a suitable back up option once deciding AVB had to go.

He's not to blame for the transfer activity on this occasion though. He did everything the manager had asked of him (bring a DOF and hire Baldini) so i refuse to blame him if AVB and Baldini couldn't co-exist.


It's since been revealed that Baldini brought in Chiriches, Lamela and Eriksen ....and AVB the others. I am now extremely grateful a DOF was brought in and AVB was not in charge of all signings.

Linked to point 1 was hiring AVB last season without the DoF structure being in place to identify a suitable Playmaker replacement.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

*beep* *beep* *beep* *beep*

Is it a bird? Is it a plane? NO, it's the sound of the NWND lorry reversing rapidly out of its "I was glad AVB was sacked" parking position.

Have I had a ridiculous change of heart re: AVB's qualities? Certainly not.

What I do believe, however, was that for all his faults, AVB had class. He respected the massive and traditional community institution he had been placed in charge of.

Even after his sacking, and his supposed fall-out with Levy & Baldini, he could have stuck the knife into the club. He didn't and bar one or two comments, he has respected the club and its decision to part with him.

I honestly couldn't fault AVB speaking to the media and defending his decisions and the club.

I don't think he was good enough or rather experienced enough for the job, but he was a credit to the club whilst in charge.

If sacking AVB means we have to put up with this poisonous, self-important, manipulative t**t dragging the club and his decisions through the dirt in public, then please come back Andre.

This Sandro business is embarrassing. I personally think Sandro is highly overrated by Spurs fans, but whatever his opinions, this classless self-serving media campaign is completely against what being a manager of a top, historic club is all about. If you're managing a minnow team like Stoke punching above their weight creating a siege mentality against the big boys then fine.

Gobbing off in every press conference possible to serve your own agenda is not acceptable. Please get rid of this clown as soon as possible.

:ross::ross:=D>=D>

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Linked to point 1 was hiring AVB last season without the DoF structure being in place to identify a suitable Playmaker replacement.

definitely a huge mistake this one, probably setting things off down the wrong path immediately. Apparently Baldini was wanted to come in at the same time as AVB but Roma wouldn't let him leave - which left us in the odd position of having a 'head coach' but no DoF. i think our signings that summer show we was shopping in the close to home market - Sigurdsson Dempsey and Dembele? Vertonghen already scouted during the previous regime. iirc apparently we employed no scouts at this point as well? :lol:

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Levy gets blame for a few things from me:

1) Hiring AVB due to impressive powerpoint presentation when their were better options.
2) Not having a suitable back up option once deciding AVB had to go.

He's not to blame for the transfer activity on this occasion though. He did everything the manager had asked of him (bring a DOF and hire Baldini) so i refuse to blame him if AVB and Baldini couldn't co-exist.


It's since been revealed that Baldini brought in Chiriches, Lamela and Eriksen ....and AVB the others. I am now extremely grateful a DOF was brought in and AVB was not in charge of all signings.

I also think point 2 shows there was no agenda to get rid of AVB it's just that his position had become untenable. The last Time Levy courted a manager to replace the current one he got absolutely slammed by every one.

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

definitely a huge mistake this one, probably setting things off down the wrong path immediately. Apparently Baldini was wanted to come in at the same time as AVB but Roma wouldn't let him leave - which left us in the odd position of having a 'head coach' but no DoF. i think our signings that summer show we was shopping in the close to home market - Sigurdsson Dempsey and Dembele? Vertonghen already scouted during the previous regime. iirc apparently we employed no scouts at this point as well? :lol:

Agreed. The fixation with Moutinho at the expense of other playmakers IMO was very damaging. Had we signed one last season when we still had Bale there is a good chance they would have settled by the start of this season and would be ready to at least bridge some of the enormous gap left by Bale. We may also have not had such an over reliance on one player and had a better chance of making up those crucial 2 points. Ah the benefit of hindsight:-k

 

[NWND]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Agreed. The fixation with Moutinho at the expense of other playmakers IMO was very damaging. Had we signed one last season when we still had Bale there is a good chance they would have settled by the start of this season and would be ready to at least bridge some of the enormous gap left by Bale. We may also have not had such an over reliance on one player and had a better chance of making up those crucial 2 points. Ah the benefit of hindsight:-k

Yeah, we were briefly linked with Strootman but let him go to Roma for example. There were other options back then, if we'd had a DOF mediating between AVB & the board, maybe things would have been different.

We went all in for Moutinho when at the time we could also have considered:

Strootman
Hernanes
Cabaye

And probably a few others I haven't thought of.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

It's not Modric we missed per se but the play maker role which was not replaced when he left. Added to that AVB IMHO failed to make proper use of Thudd. Someone who moves the ball quickly from defence to attack. This has been addressed by bringing in Christian Eriksen albeit a slightly more offensive player who I think will fit that role superbly next season when he has acclimatised to the pace of this league. But unfortunately we were fixated with getting Moutinho and it would appear not pursuing alternatives such as eriksen. Dare I say it but I can see eriksen being bigger for us than Modric was.

I beg to differ mate. I mean, yes, the play maker role, but for us that man was Luka Modric, around which a team was built and ticked over for 3 seasons. I think Eriksen could be as good in a different sort of way, but he needs to be tougher IMO...

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Yeah, we were briefly linked with Strootman but let him go to Roma for example. There were other options back then, if we'd had a DOF mediating between AVB & the board, maybe things would have been different.

We went all in for Moutinho when at the time we could also have considered:

Strootman
Hernanes
Cabaye

And probably a few others I haven't thought of.

An excellent shout to be fair...

 

[Robspur12]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I beg to differ mate. I mean, yes, the play maker role, but for us that man was Luka Modric, around which a team was built and ticked over for 3 seasons. I think Eriksen could be as good in a different sort of way, but he needs to be tougher IMO...

I knew you would

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

i don't think wanting someone to come in as a DoF means you are implicated in any *supposed* wrong doing by that person in that role.

the failure as i see it is that AVB was provided with some players he did not want, whilst also having the key player to his current system sold. meaning we started the season back at square one - in the sense that we had no consistent team base to build from in an attacking sense. AVB then went on to mismanage the players that were at his disposal - i say this based purely on the time he was in charge this season, his time was cut short so you have to draw conclusions on the data available... i do however think that had he seen out the season then we would probably have started to see some progress made. or maybe not, at least in that case we'd have a better idea than i believe we did at the time of his sacking/mutual split.

of course this doesn't take in to account his supposed lack of fight in keeping his job/apparent willingness to call it a day.

Of course you are.

If you continuously went to you boss on a daily basis and had a word with him about hiring your mate, explaining why he would be a good person to hire, explaining why you work well with him etc etc...your boss then hires him on your recommendation....and then your mate turns out to be rather ****e at the job (and you learn you can't co-exist with your mate in a working environment)...you think all the responsibility will fall on the boss and none on you?

AVB failed miserably in that regards. I've never seen a manager spout of to the media and actually identify what DOF the chairman should be hiring.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Well i entirely disagree.

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Of course you are.

If you continuously went to you boss on a daily basis and had a word with him about hiring your mate, explaining why he would be a good person to hire, explaining why you work well with him etc etc...your boss then hires him on your recommendation....and then your mate turns out to be rather ****e at the job (and you learn you can't co-exist with your mate in a working environment)...you think all the responsibility will fall on the boss and none on you?

AVB failed miserably in that regards. I've never seen a manager spout of to the media and actually identify what DOF the chairman should be hiring.

I suspect that your scenario there is a little far fetched and that AVB was knocking on an open door when wanting a DoF.