Politics, politics, politics

[Gutter Boy]

It's still tail wagging the dog if we orientate all our business for the 13% that goes to the EU, rather than the 87% that doesn't

For example, if an EU regulation says all official company communications need to be trilingual - delivered in English, French and Esperanto. Do companies that are for the domestic and/or RoW market only have to employ translators to communicate everything in French and Esperanto?

 

[SpurMeUp]

We'll only have to apply those rules to goods and services supplied to the EU. Crucially, the 75% of our economy that doesn't trade externally and half of the rest that does but not with the EU can ignore EU regulations.

I have no problem with that whatsoever. If we want to sell goods to Canada, then what we sell should conform to their regulations.

How do you know this? Its an idea at present. The question is, if borders are completely open with no checks, how would the EU ensure goods are not coming into the EU that don't meet their regulations, if we're not completely observant of the EU regulations? This is the kind of detail that will see the proposal fall down. At present Brexiteers can interpret it as you have, but once the detail is hammered out, I don't think anyone will accept it as particualarly desirable.

What do you suggest as a workable alternative that would work for the EU too? Easy to criticise harder to create.

 

[Baleforce]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1014413847430615040

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Funny how rigid the EU are on what they give us and everything has to be in line otherwise other EU countries will kick off, YET ,although it's apparently all about the trading bloc, we sit here with our own currency, able to set our own interest rates, and quantitative ease when we want to.

They're just gonna sit there with their arms folded this time round.

 

[scaramanga]

How do you know this? Its an idea at present. The question is, if borders are completely open with no checks, how would the EU ensure goods are not coming into the EU that don't meet their regulations, if we're not completely observant of the EU regulations? This is the kind of detail that will see the proposal fall down. At present Brexiteers can interpret it as you have, but once the detail is hammered out, I don't think anyone will accept it as particualarly desirable.

What do you suggest as a workable alternative that would work for the EU too? Easy to criticise harder to create.

How do they know now?

 

[scaramanga]

We're already unable to compete because of the regulatory regime we have to have in place for EU membership. Remove 87% of that and we will be better off.

There's a huge saving for the 87% of our GDP that doesn't involve trade with the EU - we're already regulating that part of the economy, I'm just proposing we regulate it less.


Not sure what the US has to do with it. Currently, any product or service that we sell to another country has to meet the regulations and standards held in that country. That doesn't change when we leave the EU. In fact, it's one of the few things that stays absolutely the same.

Nobody is going to inspect individual products at the border to ensure regulation - that's not how businesses prove adherence.

My business currently has to prove to the local authority that what we do conforms to EU regulations. They don't check everything we produce and they don't check as we export. They inspect our policies and procedures, take random samples, etc. Sometimes they just call me up and ask if anything has changed. We prove to the UK government that our methods adhere to the regulations and by doing so prove adherence to EU regulations. So all they have to do on export is check that we, as the exporter, have been flagged as passing the criteria.

 

[Grays_1890]

This Video perfectly sums up my mood

 

[SpurMeUp]

How do they know now?

By us agreeing regulations and standards on things like drugs, food etc. If the UK has an open customs boarder with the EU (which is what is supposedly being proposed and is highly desirable), and the UK doesn't have unison with the EU goods regulations, then it could create a backdoor for non-approved drugs, foods etc. to enter the EU, which they would not accept for obvious reasons.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Why does any ordinary man in the street care about this issue? I've never woke up and thought "Life would be a lot better if our government could negotiate trade deals instead of having it all done through the EU." And say we have a trade agreement with the USA and get into a dispute -- are they gonna say "yeah, we'll leave it up to your limey courts to settle this"?

It is a symbol of the sort of country I would like. Just because you have never woken up and thought it does not make it wrong.

We should be trading with the whole world and we should not allow an organisation that does not care about our future make decisions that effect this country and not theirs.

 

[Grays_1890]

It is a symbol of the sort of country I would like. Just because you have never woken up and thought it does not make it wrong.

We should be trading with the whole world and we should not allow an organisation that does not care about our future make decisions that effect this country and not theirs.

SPOT ON

 

[DTA]

It is a symbol of the sort of country I would like. Just because you have never woken up and thought it does not make it wrong.

We should be trading with the whole world and we should not allow an organisation that does not care about our future make decisions that effect this country and not theirs.

But we are trading with the whole world. Those that have a trade deal with the EU we get to trade with them on very favourable terms (far better than anything we would achieve alone) and the rest of the world I believe would be under WTO rules... Which you guys must like because that's what you are suggesting we trade with the EU under

 

[DTA]

It is a symbol of the sort of country I would like. Just because you have never woken up and thought it does not make it wrong.

We should be trading with the whole world and we should not allow an organisation that does not care about our future make decisions that effect this country and not theirs.

Also the EU does care about our future, as we are big part of the EU28... You know who doesn't care for our future and never will... The US of A

 

[scaramanga]

By us agreeing regulations and standards on things like drugs, food etc. If the UK has an open customs boarder with the EU (which is what is supposedly being proposed and is highly desirable), and the UK doesn't have unison with the EU goods regulations, then it could create a backdoor for non-approved drugs, foods etc. to enter the EU, which they would not accept for obvious reasons.

I get why they're interested in having aligned regulations, but how do they know? What do they actually check for conformity?

Let's look at this another way. Is every single widget imported from China individually inspected?

 

[scaramanga]

Why does any ordinary man in the street care about this issue? I've never woke up and thought "Life would be a lot better if our government could negotiate trade deals instead of having it all done through the EU." And say we have a trade agreement with the USA and get into a dispute -- are they gonna say "yeah, we'll leave it up to your limey courts to settle this"?

I care because it makes the things I buy more expensive than they should be. I care because my business, through the EU's protectionist flimflam, cannot effectively shop around the world for imports and neither can our upstream providers. I care because the longer term future of our economy is currently bound to that of Greece, Italy and Spain, none of whom I would trust with the change in my pocket.

 

[Rorschach]

Shows very little respect for their staff or the population that voted out. But I have always said short term pain for long term gain.

Government should be positioning itself for renewable energy. Tidal and wave turbine tech, that is the future.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...-moon-hold-the-key-to-the-earths-energy-needs

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I care because the longer term future of our economy is currently bound to that of Greece, Italy and Spain, none of whom I would trust with the change in my pocket.

Don't bring them into it.

Trading with our European neighbours has brought nothing but benefits, wealth and prosperity. Everyone is so much better off...

If you take away the crippling debt


(Can I add Portugal ?)

 

[SpurMeUp]

I care because it makes the things I buy more expensive than they should be. I care because my business, through the EU's protectionist flimflam, cannot effectively shop around the world for imports and neither can our upstream providers. I care because the longer term future of our economy is currently bound to that of Greece, Italy and Spain, none of whom I would trust with the change in my pocket.

Post Brexit vote, everything imported got more expensive because the pound flunked. We are all worse off by a few hundred quid a year now. Expect more of that if car firms, banks etc move into the EU from the UK. Do you care in this instance, or just when it suits a Leave perspective? The downgrading of our economy is not hypothetical however. We have high levels of inflation now. A hard Brexit would not bring about an upflift in our currency, I'd guess it would see it slip further down making everything imported more expensive still, and holidays abroad much more pricy.

Our economy is also tied to some extremely poor regions in the UK. Parts of Wales etc Being connected to the EU is not just being connected to the (tiny) economy of Greece but also the strength and power of Germany, France etc. and Italy and Spain are large relatively successful economies. Together we are stronger and able to compete with the US, China etc and so what if we bring little places like Greece along with us, if that is what they choose? It's no great strain on us, and actually provides us with more markets for us to sell to and interact with. You want to sell you medical stuff into a hospital in Athens, or buy a little plot of land on a Greek island to relax on - you could both this week if you needed without any beaucratic nonsense holding you up. That has been the success of the EU and has seen the UK become more wealthy since the 70s off the back of this open market potential. Its something us Anglo-Saxons are better setup to exploit. Whether from Thatcherism or an inbuilt way of working, we benifit from open trade more than southern nations it seesm - just look at the data below on how the UK grew and overtook France, Germany in some economic meansure since joining in the 70s.On our own we were the sick man of Europe, and it wasn't all that long ago. We have freedom to trade with the commonwealth and other nations then. What has changed now?

Different ways to measure wealth accross the EU. I thought these maybe interesting

 

[SpurMeUp]

Don't bring them into it.

Trading with our European neighbours has brought nothing but benefits, wealth and prosperity. Everyone is so much better off...

If you take away the crippling debt


(Can I add Portugal ?)

Presumably you are talking about the UK not benifiting and not these other EU nations? If so, what is all this data below about? I replied to your post with it about 10 pages backwhen you asked for hard data, did you evaluate it? What were your thoughts? Is it gonads or not applicable to everyone in the UK? Maybe fair points if backed up.


From the FT:

Britain joined what was then the European Economic Community in 1973 as the sick man of Europe. By the late 1960s, France, West Germany and Italy — the three founder members closest in size to the UK — produced more per person than it did and the gap grew larger every year. Between 1958, when the EEC was set up, and Britain’s entry in 1973, gross domestic product per head rose 95 per cent in these three countries compared with only 50 per cent in Britain.

After becoming an EEC member, Britain slowly began to catch up. Gross domestic product per person has grown faster than Italy, Germany and France in the more than 40 years since. By 2013, Britain became more prosperous than the average of the three other large European economies for the first time since 1965.

Data compiled by Rebecca Driver of the consultancy Analytically Driven highlight a causal link between Britain’s greater openness to trade since 1973 and its subsequent specialisation in high productivity sectors, including finance, high-tech manufacturing and business services. Ms Driver said the 11 per cent of British companies that trade internationally are responsible for 60 per cent of the UKs productivity gains

“These companies prefer large geographically concentrated markets with strong unified regulations,” she adds. “For the UK, that is the EU”. In other words, trade drives competition and growth. Since 1993, the UK has been the bloc’s top recipient of inward foreign direct investment, according to the UN. .https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/202a60c0-cfd8-11e5-831d-09f7778e7377


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The GDP value of European Union represents 26.45 percent of the world economy. You'd still say its no powerhouse tho?

Academia, economists and simple logic shows that having free trade with 500 million people helps the UK. Impairing that trade and losing any input into the terms of that trade is a bad thing. Yes the UKs success has come at a cost. We’ve had migration which has put a strain on some communities and maybe we focus too much on wealth creation over society, but I believe both these things can be addressed by OUR government, it’s all too easy to blame the EU for all of our internal issues.

 

[the dza]

I care because it makes the things I buy more expensive than they should be. I care because my business, through the EU's protectionist flimflam, cannot effectively shop around the world for imports and neither can our upstream providers. I care because the longer term future of our economy is currently bound to that of Greece, Italy and Spain, none of whom I would trust with the change in my pocket.

What's confusing is that most of the other Gordon Gecko types think it's very important to stay in a Customs Union. Being that you and them have the same aims (doing right by your business) what makes them wrong?

 

[scaramanga]

Presumably you are talking about the UK not benifiting and not these other EU nations? If so, what is all this data below about? I replied to your post with it about 10 pages backwhen you asked for hard data, did you evaluate it? What were your thoughts? Is it gonads or not applicable to everyone in the UK? Maybe fair points if backed up.


From the FT:

Britain joined what was then the European Economic Community in 1973 as the sick man of Europe. By the late 1960s, France, West Germany and Italy — the three founder members closest in size to the UK — produced more per person than it did and the gap grew larger every year. Between 1958, when the EEC was set up, and Britain’s entry in 1973, gross domestic product per head rose 95 per cent in these three countries compared with only 50 per cent in Britain.

After becoming an EEC member, Britain slowly began to catch up. Gross domestic product per person has grown faster than Italy, Germany and France in the more than 40 years since. By 2013, Britain became more prosperous than the average of the three other large European economies for the first time since 1965.

Data compiled by Rebecca Driver of the consultancy Analytically Driven highlight a causal link between Britain’s greater openness to trade since 1973 and its subsequent specialisation in high productivity sectors, including finance, high-tech manufacturing and business services. Ms Driver said the 11 per cent of British companies that trade internationally are responsible for 60 per cent of the UKs productivity gains

“These companies prefer large geographically concentrated markets with strong unified regulations,” she adds. “For the UK, that is the EU”. In other words, trade drives competition and growth. Since 1993, the UK has been the bloc’s top recipient of inward foreign direct investment, according to the UN. .https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/202a60c0-cfd8-11e5-831d-09f7778e7377


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The GDP value of European Union represents 26.45 percent of the world economy. You'd still say its no powerhouse tho?

Academia, economists and simple logic shows that having free trade with 500 million people helps the UK. Impairing that trade and losing any input into the terms of that trade is a bad thing. Yes the UKs success has come at a cost. We’ve had migration which has put a strain on some communities and maybe we focus too much on wealth creation over society, but I believe both these things can be addressed by OUR government, it’s all too easy to blame the EU for all of our internal issues.