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Politics, politics, politics
- Thread starter markysimmo
- Start date
Dude this is not a movie... It's people lives and lively hoods we are talking about here
Parklaner81
Steve Hodge
Absolutely with you. But of course, it would seem that the EU are far too committed to sending out a political message for anything as sensible as you suggest to occur.
I'm for taking calculated risks.. but not just jumping in to the unknown, not for me.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
I agree. That's what a remain vote was for me really. Taking the smaller risk of tolerating the faults of the EU along with the good stuff that comes with it. And now we as a country voted out, I'd prefer we aligned ourselves with the EU, rather than have the Right sell us down the river to American corporate interests.
milo
Jack L. Jones
For you maybe but that really is revisionist.
It was about more money for the NHS, less immigration, having our cake and eating it, giving the powers that be a kick, don't trust experts, it was the Norwegian model, it was hard brexit, taking control, it was everything to all people you just picked the one you wanted.
For very few it was where we are now.
That's the other great problem I have with Brexit... It was so dishonestly sold as everything to everyone.
So if the government go to the negotiation with a position that they know (I assume they know) is incompatible with EU law and the EU rejects it on that basis, is that the EU being unreasonable? Or the government playing games?
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
It's a potentially clever setup. The devil will be in the detail. We would still be a rule taker and not maker, and how EU regulation and ECJ oversight (or alternative in name) is configured for the UK is core detail. Detail that Brexiteers won't be happy with. It would be a Norway + controls on free movement; which if May could pull it off would be a massive achievement. Off the bat there are 2 essential problems:
1. If the deal is 'too good' for the UK other EU nations will either reject it or want it as well. Norway for example would want the same setup as us. That would undermine the EU and they would have to reject our proposal or undermine their own union that allows free movement and open trade.
2. Brexiteers won't like us being rule takers, which we'd have to be to maintain open customs borders. But it's a clever setup where we could in theory maintain open trade and control FoM. In that sense it's a carrot cake and eat it.
There are so many interests and positions to mediate through, I just can't see it sticking however. I am probably the only one on here that respects Mays efforts on Brexit. Quite how she has managed to meddle through with a divided party and seemingly impossible mandate is, you have to say, impressive. But despite that, with the timeframe and the amounts of interests to be dealt with in the EU and at home, it will be miraculous if she can pull this off.
The proposed deal is still a fudge, but pull it off and it addresses the core concern - free movement - so maybe it has legs. I like the ideas but won't be holding my breath, the chances of delivery are not stacked in our favour.
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SpurMeUp
Les Howe
It has been a political game for decades - pander to the masses with some light nationalism, while maintaining immigration for the economy. But Populism has changed things. Now governments have to take light action rather than just use rhetoric. Hence Brexit. If immigration wasn't put front and centre in the campaign, no Brexit.
When you look for solutions, ultimately it comes down to education. To take Brits to levels where we are not undermined by immigrants. So Brits from lower socio economic areas have greater employment prospects. Is it xenophobic to not like free movement if you drive a bus and Polish people have taken bus driving jobs meaning you haven't had a pay rise for a decade? There are both fair concerns about FoM and a more xenophobic blaming of FoM as the reason for all our ills.
But take the bus driver, give him a chance to have free training to become an advanced driver, or driving instructor etc give him the help and chance to make more money and progress, and you start to address the valid concerns maybe.
When you look for solutions, ultimately it comes down to education. To take Brits to levels where we are not undermined by immigrants. So Brits from lower socio economic areas have greater employment prospects. Is it xenophobic to not like free movement if you drive a bus and Polish people have taken bus driving jobs meaning you haven't had a pay rise for a decade? There are both fair concerns about FoM and a more xenophobic blaming of FoM as the reason for all our ills.
But take the bus driver, give him a chance to have free training to become an advanced driver, or driving instructor etc give him the help and chance to make more money and progress, and you start to address the valid concerns maybe.
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
Think it would have to include the ability to strike our own trade deals and British law not EU law is the final say on disputes.
We'll only have to apply those rules to goods and services supplied to the EU. Crucially, the 75% of our economy that doesn't trade externally and half of the rest that does but not with the EU can ignore EU regulations.
I have no problem with that whatsoever. If we want to sell goods to Canada, then what we sell should conform to their regulations.
Why does any ordinary man in the street care about this issue? I've never woke up and thought "Life would be a lot better if our government could negotiate trade deals instead of having it all done through the EU." And say we have a trade agreement with the USA and get into a dispute -- are they gonna say "yeah, we'll leave it up to your limey courts to settle this"?