You can buy oil and gas from various sources too.
Keeping the Saudis friendly has a number of benefits, but them being the only source of oil isn't one of them.
-
Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara
Politics, politics, politics
- Thread starter markysimmo
- Start date
Keeping the Saudis friendly has a number of benefits, but them being the only source of oil isn't one of them.
glasgowspur
Luka Modric
So you're not interested in setting the Irish or the Scots free, it's just a selfish wish to set the English free dressed up as a moral crusade for the put upon. That my friend is what's wrong with the world today a fake quest for social justice being used to manipulate the ignorant and the young into gaining power over the masses.
By stirring the snowflake outrage you hope to ride roughshod over the rest of us, well I'm onto mate.
I hope I've read the subtext of your post correctly and my answer is taken in the best it's intended.
I'll have to try and find it, but I have seen another study that shows the "left wing when young, right wing when you're older" thing doesn't really apply anymore. Speaking for myself, I used to be more right-wing as a teenager who got my news from The Sun. I'm in my early 30s now with a family of my own and I'm more left-wing than ever.
I think the internet has changed things, people don't just get their news from the paper. Even if you go to an online newspaper, there will be comments below the line arguing for/against the article, further links. You look at threads on a forum like this, you get links to tweets/blogs, various different things. The over 65s don't get this so much.
milo
Jack L. Jones
I suspect that there are not many detailed studies into and that accounts of this are mostly anecdotal.
What we have seen in the last election is definitely not young lefties who will grow up to be Tories. The Conservatives have haemorrhaged support amongst people of working age.
Here are some comparisons to 2015
milo
Jack L. Jones
I think that what is interesting is the switch from UKIP to Labour. The assumption at the beginning of the campaign was that the Conservatives would hoover up all of their votes but that hasn't happened and you can see that UKIP to Labour being a significant factor amongst middle aged voters.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
It is very, very dangerous IMO. With a bit of smoke and mirror action, the differences between hard socialists and UKIP racists can be made difficult to immediately ascertain. Of course we know the difference, but my point is that to a public which largely seems to react to shouting, buzzwords and vague language, it is a dangerous shift and one which Corbyn would be well advised to watch like a hawk for fear of the party being hijacked from within.
milo
Jack L. Jones
I think that the reasons for people voting for a party are a bit more complex than that. Labour also obviously lost some voters to UKIP, so what we could be seeing is voters going "home" to both the Conservatives and Labour. They seem to have broken about 2-1 to the Conservatives.
I am not saying that there aren't racists in the Labour Party or voting Labour by the way, there clearly are and the party should do more about this. As should all parties.
Ukip got 4 million votes in 2015, I doubt that many of them were racist. UKIP were the beneficiaries of being the protest vote for people who felt their vote was being taken for granted by Labour in the north. The SNP benefited from something similar in Scotland at the expense of Labour. With Brexit and a left-wing Labour party to vote for actually offering them something, many of these voters returned.
This is something I posted on a different website, 9 months ago (don't know if the link will work):
https://disqus.com/home/discussion/..._fade_fast_without_farage/#comment-2899441952
Brexit should boost the Labour Party imo -- as long as there is an end to 'free movement' then the UKIP fox is shot. Then those Labour voters who switched over to UKIP will have a choice between Tory and Labour. As long as Labour honours Brexit (and we know Corbyn absolutely will) then I think these voters will come back.
Of course, if the Brexit terms are different to what those who voted to Brext thought they were getting, then UKIP will still very much have a cause and those voters will continue to vote for them.
IMO, the worst thing for UKIP as a political party would be to get what they want.
Brexit is certainly a problem for the Conservative party. It splits their vote right down the middle.
In terms of austerity, does that actually show at all in most people's lives? I can genuinely say I've not noticed it, and whilst opponents will be able to find plenty of one-off cases to shout about, I don't know anyone who's noticed it.
That's an age group where people are progressing the most in their careers too. If they're doing it right, people of that age group should have seen significant payrises regardless of whether pay overall has increased.
If people aged 35-44 are not seeing significant increases in their pay then there's a major problem but it's not the economy.
milo
Jack L. Jones
I think that people are noticing increases in class sizes and that it is becoming more common for schools to ask for contributions to cover routine items. I think people are noticing that the NHS is struggling and obviously, there has and will be a focus in cuts to police and fire services after recent events.
That's a bold statement.
I know plenty of Conservative voters who would have voted for someone like Corbyn and declared they would never vote for those evil Tories when they were young and foolish.
They all grew up, found that there was a real world out there and started voting accordingly.
milo
Jack L. Jones
I don't think that it is a bold statement, the data we have on voting patterns in the 2015/2017 elections does not show a passage from left wing idealism to right wing pragmatism (which is the typical interpretation of it). In 2015, voting patterns are reasonably consistent in all age groups under 60. In 2017 there is significant growth in support for Labour in all age groups under 50.
I can't say that I have noticed the same amongst my friends who I have known since we were in our early twenties. I think that for many, formative experiences shape political opinion and that stays with people.
Robspur12
Nick Barmby
I would say yes. It doesn't show up if you are lucky enough to have private healthcare with no chronic conditions so you can mostly avoid the NHS. You won't notice it if you send your kids to private schools rather than use the state system where they are struggling to carry out routine maintenance work and cannot recruit cleaners in some instances due to lack of money. You won't notice it unless you are in the military and desperately short of supplies and man power. You won't notice it unless you are low paid and having your in work benefits cut. You won't notice it unless you travel to work on public transport and see above inflation rises every January. You won't notice it unless you are a public sector worker who have not seen their wages rise significantly for seven years, seen staffing levels cut to the bone and terms and conditions eroded.
As we watch the terrible events unfold at the Grenfall tower, noises have already been made about the Council being strapped for cash so they did not test and maintain the dry risers.
Yes austerity is biting and wealthy people like yourself and George Osborne are out of touch with ordinary people.
milo
Jack L. Jones
The turnaround has happened very quickly but we do seem to be at the point in the electoral cycle where every major news story can be linked back to the current government's actions.
Top phucking post.
glasgowspur
Luka Modric
I wouldn't take any of these graphs, stats or polls at anything other than face value.
None of the parties are offering policies that will attract and keep a voter.
Take Corbyn and the youth vote, free uni places brilliant, woohoo. But he wants out of EU, boo, hiss.
May is flip flopping all over the place so harder to tie down, but its a similar scenario, out of EU, woohoo say the pensioners, means test heating allowance and dementia tax , boo hiss.
The problem really is the attention span of the average voter is now so small that it's all about the last thing they heard, if it's good you've cracked it, it's not then tough.
They are all so concerned about the reaction on social media causing a backlash the parties are trying to please everyone, and failing.
As for the getting more right wing as you get older, maybe tge anecdotal evidence saying it's no longer the case is due to voters not wanting to look like fools after pontificating about never voting Tory and then doing so. The shy Tory voted as it were.
None of the parties are offering policies that will attract and keep a voter.
Take Corbyn and the youth vote, free uni places brilliant, woohoo. But he wants out of EU, boo, hiss.
May is flip flopping all over the place so harder to tie down, but its a similar scenario, out of EU, woohoo say the pensioners, means test heating allowance and dementia tax , boo hiss.
The problem really is the attention span of the average voter is now so small that it's all about the last thing they heard, if it's good you've cracked it, it's not then tough.
They are all so concerned about the reaction on social media causing a backlash the parties are trying to please everyone, and failing.
As for the getting more right wing as you get older, maybe tge anecdotal evidence saying it's no longer the case is due to voters not wanting to look like fools after pontificating about never voting Tory and then doing so. The shy Tory voted as it were.
Glenda's Legs
Paul Walsh
Even after the terrorist attacks of the past few weeks, I don't think I have seen anything as awful as this fire. I can't begin to imagine what it must have been like to there. Absolutely terrifying. Terrifying.
The potential death toll doesn't bear thinking about.
It's too early to know the exact cause or whether there were exasperating factors.
But some of the stories coming out, and previously voiced concerns, means there are some very serious questions to be answered about the safety of the building. And responsibility to be taken.
But that's for the days and weeks to come.
For now it is just heartbreaking.
The potential death toll doesn't bear thinking about.
It's too early to know the exact cause or whether there were exasperating factors.
But some of the stories coming out, and previously voiced concerns, means there are some very serious questions to be answered about the safety of the building. And responsibility to be taken.
But that's for the days and weeks to come.
For now it is just heartbreaking.
Gilzeantoscore
Justin Edinburgh
That's not anti capitalist though. Under your scenario, the means of production, distribution and exchange would remain in private hands.
Gilzeantoscore
Justin Edinburgh
It's all about economics for me. That defines who you are politically, not whether or not, you support the idea of climate change or supporting de criminalisation of dope. It's all part of the Alt Right's attempts to redefine the landscape. They want all people to assume that the economic debate is over and that the political divide is now about these other things. Oh no it isn't!