• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Politics, politics, politics

Gilzeantoscore said:
The only people who ever make this claim are middle aged right wingers.
Click to expand...

Well at least 40% of the population have been middle-aged since the 1830s:

1000px-UK_popular_vote.svg.png



Personally I'm neither middle age (I'm generation y) nor right wing (I'm anti-capitalist and socially liberal)
 
Gutter Boy said:
So you can't be held to ransom, especially as oil tends to be in fairly hostile parts of the world. Imagine this year's 'courgette crisis', but for the quantity (rather than diversity) of products.
Click to expand...
If everyone is relying on everyone else for products then nobody can hold anyone to ransom. Take Saudi Arabia for example - I think the largest Middle East exporter but I'm happy to be corrected if not.

They, obviously, rely on digging up and selling oil to run their economy. Where do they get the industrial valves, pumps, taps, pipes, etc? They don't make them at home. What about the computers that run it all or even tangential things like the AC units that allow all their foreign experts work in that ridiculous heat? The medical equipment that keeps those who own the oil alive, or even the expertise?

If they shut the world off, then the world shuts them off. It's a global market now, you shouldn't worry about UK food/power independence than you should Rotherham's food/energy independence.

The following article/paper (I'm sure you've read it before) was written nearly 60 years ago. Have a look and see how globalised production was then - it's been growing ever since and will only go one way.

http://www.econlib.org/library/Essays/rdPncl1.html
 
Last edited:
Gutter Boy said:
Well at least 40% of the population have been middle-aged since the 1830s:

1000px-UK_popular_vote.svg.png



Personally I'm neither middle age (I'm generation y) nor right wing (I'm anti-capitalist and socially liberal)
Click to expand...

Your posts do not suggest a left wing slant. I don't believe there is such a thing as the centre, so I don't know where that leaves you .
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
Your posts do not suggest a left wing slant. I don't believe there is such a thing as the centre, so I don't know where that leaves you .
Click to expand...

Off the scale! I don't like socialism or capitalism - I believe in de-growth instead.

I'm pro-Tory at the moment simply because my priority is Brexit. I'm generally (classical) liberal, so don't like a big state or anything that edges towards authoritarianism - whether paternalist Tory or interventionist Labour (and especially EU theocracy). May is really hard to stomach on domestic policies, though I could cope with Cameron and Clegg.

John Locke and Nicholas Georgescu-Roegen are my key points of reference. Freedom over utilitarianism, and society over economy.

I've got a particular thing about tuition fees, just because abolishing them will result in massive cutbacks to that sector. Where for me R&D should be significantly invested in. The Conservative/current system is wrong too though. A graduate tax, with no debt tied to individuals, is the fair and sustainable solution.
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
Libertarian = right wing. Don't be shy about it. ;)
Click to expand...
What do you mean by "right wing"?

Do you mean right wing in the economic sense? As in a supporter of capitalism? GB isn't that. What about right wing in the social sense - of not believing in equality of people? He's certainly not that either. do you mean right wing in the American sense - of religion and anti-abortion, etc? He's not that either.

Despite your best attempts, opinions can't be pigeon-holed into neat little categories like that.
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
Libertarian = right wing. Don't be shy about it. ;)
Click to expand...

Socially - yes. But not economically. I want to actively shrink the economy and redistribute wealth through mandatory 4, then 3, day workings weeks, so we can all have more leisure time. Libertarians are also about neo-liberal economics (unrestrained growth/powerful private sector) aren't they, which I don't support?
 
scaramanga said:
If everyone is relying on everyone else for products then nobody can hold anyone to ransom. Take Saudi Arabia for example - I think the largest Middle East exporter but I'm happy to be corrected if not.

They, obviously, rely on digging up and selling oil to run their economy. Where do they get the industrial valves, pumps, taps, pipes, etc? They don't make them at home. What about the computers that run it all or even tangential things like the AC units that allow all their foreign experts work in that ridiculous heat? The medical equipment that keeps those who own the oil alive, or even the expertise?

If they shut the world off, then the world shuts them off. It's a global market now, you shouldn't worry about UK food/power independence than you should Rotherham's food/energy independence.

The following article/paper (I'm sure you've read it before) was written nearly 60 years ago. Have a look and see how globalised production was then - it's been growing ever since and will only go one way.

http://www.econlib.org/library/Essays/rdPncl1.html
Click to expand...
But surely you can buy things like valves, machinery etc from multiple sources. There are fewer places to extract and buy oil and other raw materials. Those that can will have more leverage over the markets. That is part of the reason we overlook the Saudis allegedly funding wahabi extremists in the UK. We wouldn't if they were just supplying us with industrial valves I imagine.
 
glasgowspur said:
What is this obsession with "setting Scotland free"? The SNP has just taken a kicking and are in turmoil because they kept pushing for an indyref2 that few want.
Give it up, stop listening to rabble and listen to the majority, that is supposed to be what democracy is all about.
Click to expand...

Since when is that what is democracy about? If the thing you want does not happen you start marches, petitions and try to create laws to get what you want.

I would prefer to be just English not British, I might be in a minority but that is neither here or there. I want that the UK to break up and will lay on the floor and bang my feet and hands until I get what I want like a spoilt brat, that my friend is democracy in the UK these days.
 
Gutter Boy said:
So you can't be held to ransom, especially as oil tends to be in fairly hostile parts of the world. Imagine this year's 'courgette crisis', but for the quantity (rather than diversity) of products.
Click to expand...

My courgettes look great this year, strawberries look great and the sweetcorn is looking well. Rhubarb not so much so.
 
scaramanga said:
What do you mean by "right wing"?

Do you mean right wing in the economic sense? As in a supporter of capitalism? GB isn't that. What about right wing in the social sense - of not believing in equality of people? He's certainly not that either. do you mean right wing in the American sense - of religion and anti-abortion, etc? He's not that either.

Despite your best attempts, opinions can't be pigeon-holed into neat little categories like that.
Click to expand...

You see I find this with me as well, I am not sure what I am anymore.

I think the conservatives are better with the economy, I think I might be economically conservative.

I have a manic hatred of the EU, I am totally supportive of same sex marriage and same sex couples being able to adopt. I want to close all Zoos I have no problem with muslims but wish to ban all religious schools. I seem to swing from one end to the other.

The only thing I am consistent with is my hatred of is Arsenal.
 
Robspur12 said:
Agriculture is not like mining, this is not just a debate about economics, it is also about food security. We need food to survive. In a time of crisis we should have the infrastructure and people with the skills to be able to grow food for the country. Both of which will be lost if we destroy our farming industry by allowing tariff free foreign imports.
Click to expand...

There would also be a cost in maintaining idle land.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Young people get older though.

Young people are more left wing because they have nothing to lose. The older you get, the more stake you get in society, the more you want to preserve that.

Lots of the 18-25 year old Labour voters will have mortgages and children by 2022. The will be more bothered by economic competence rather than idealism.
Click to expand...

That's not born out by the data from the most recent election. There has been a move towards Labour by middle aged voters. There was also a marked move away from the Conservatives in all age segments during the campaign.
 
scaramanga said:
I'm surprised at that - I wonder if it's something to do with the reduced level of housing ownership.

Best thing would be to release all that council housing into right to buy schemes - should fix the problem.
Click to expand...

I think that the cause is Brexit, the effects of austerity becoming more visible and ten years of no growth in living standards. This group would have a significant proportion with young families and so will be regular users of the NHS, schooling and local services.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back